Josh Allen red zone stats

[Scorp83]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

If you really watched all the games, are you able to process any of the counterarguments to your rather dogmatic position?  Do contextual elements like a predictable, run-first offense, or poor surrounding talent in 2017, etc. in any way modify your evaluation criteria?  Does the interlocutor who actually attended many of the games have superficial points, because it doesn't seem to me you have really engaged them?  We'll see how it turns out, but you have taken a position with no wiggle room.   

& I'll gladly embrace my position! I've already posted counter arguments in previous threads, I'm not going to continue to repeat myself. But, when you watch his games...regardless of run first or not. He still has to make attempts... & when you watch Allen over throw wide open WR's running down the middle of the field, & over throwing or throwing ground balls to RB's in the flats....that has nothing...& I mean nothing to do with the offensive concept! Complete the throw Allen! That's what you end up screaming when you watch his games. They can run the ball 50 times...doesnt matter...Allen still has 15-20 attempts to make... his WR's & O-line wasn't the best but when they did get open & did give him a clean pocket... (because they went up against talentless individuals)... there's no excuse. Make the throw...set your feet & don't hold the ball too long & deliver the throw. 

 

You don't see that watching YouTube highlights. I'm not a clueless poster & I'm not naive. Allen just because he's a Bill doesn't mean he's oozing in greatness. He's a project...thats the real harsh truth! We traded up for a "Cross your finger" shot in the dark QB"

 

As smart as Beane & Derm claim they are & the understanding of the NFL Draft being a crapshoot...you should not want to leave it up for chance. You should want the best player that's available...whether you like his attitude or not. If they wanted to gamble...do it with a guy like Lamar Jackson who has the ability to be the next Vick & Steve Young combine. You don't take a chance on a guy who consistently CAN'T THROW A 5 & OUT! 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Scorp83

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Scorp83 said:

& I'll gladly embrace my position! I've already posted counter arguments in previous threads, I'm not going to continue to repeat myself. But, when you watch his games...regardless of run first or not. He still has to make attempts... & when you watch Allen over throw wide open WR's running down the middle of the field, & over throwing or throwing ground balls to RB's in the flats....that has nothing...& I mean nothing to do with the offensive concept! Complete the throw Allen! That's what you end up screaming when you watch his games. They can run the ball 50 times...doesnt matter...Allen still has 15-20 attempts to make... his WR's & O-line wasn't the best but when they did get open & did give him a clean pocket... (because they went up against talentless individuals)... there's no excuse. Make the throw...set your feet & don't hold the ball too long & deliver the throw. 

 

You don't see that watching YouTube highlights. I'm not a clueless poster & I'm not naive. Allen just because he's a Bill doesn't mean he's oozing in greatness. He's a project...thats the real harsh truth! We traded up for a "Cross your finger" shot in the dark QB"

 

As smart as Beane & Derm claim they are & the understanding of the NFL Draft being a crapshoot...you shouldn't not want to leave it up for chance. You should want the best player that's available...whether you like his attitude or not. If they wanted to gamble...do it with a guy like Lamar Jackson who has the ability to be the next Vick & Steve Young combine. You don't take a chance on a guy who consistently CAN'T THROW A 5 & OUT! 

Okay, I'm certainly convinced of your sincerity.  My assessment is far more sanguine.  As a Bills' fan, you better hope I am right.

[Scorp83]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Okay, I'm certainly convinced of your sincerity.  My assessment is far more sanguine.  As a Bills' fan, you better hope I am right.

Heck I pray your right... I would love to be wrong. For the fanbase & McBeane they better hope I'm wrong. 

[Shaw66]

I want to believe Allen will succeed.  I have several reasons why I think he will.  This stat is NOT one of those reasons. 

 

I spent two years arguing with people that you couldn't conclude much of anything about Taylor by studying his stats for throwing over the middle.  The data is subjective and scarce, and the differences aren't meaningful.

 

Same here. There are too many variables to conclude that the differences among the rookie QBS in this one, narrow, subjective stat mean much of anything.  I mean, what am I supposed to do- conclude that Allen is going to Hall of Fame he MAY have been better in the red zone in college?

 

 

[John from Riverside]

On 5/24/2018 at 4:19 AM, Scorp83 said:

Cocaine is a powerful drug sir.... please get some help. We won't judge you after this post.

... 

Funny you say this... Apparently Josh Rosen is lighting it up at camp... they said he already knows half the playbook ...its only MAY! Then he's taking command of the huddle. He's also going against Sam Bradford...DJ & Brooks both said they would not be surprise if he's rookie of the year... 

 

This was reported on Move The Sticks Podcast ... 

 

Bills made a big mistake passing on Rosen...for Allen

 

You people need to take off your Bill shades for a min... leave the matrix, & stopping being naive, selling yourself on this guy. At least see what he does before thinking he's somewhat good...because EVERY stat & Game you watch of his, shows he's not going to make it. Man wake up people

Just show me where Josh Rosen is taking hits at this point in camp and we can have a discussion...until then there is no arguement to be made.

 

Josh Rosen was the most accurate/pure qb in this draft and minus the concussion issues would have/should have been the number 1 overall pick.

 

The problem is we dont play in that vacuum....Josh Rosen also plays a style of football where he takes those hits and if the cardinals coaching staff does not work that out of him he is gonna have a  short career. 

 

We are not drafting a QB for the next year or couple of years....if Josh Allen hits he is our qb for like the next 12 years

 

Its interesting how every time a fan agrees with something the bills did.....they are wearing their rose colored glasses....maybe they just know more about the situation then you do?

 

 

[BB@Shooter]

5 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

How am I'm clueless for actually watching his games. Then I didn't say I watched them on youtube...you know direct tv has a service that allows you to watch college games right? Then Jeremy White had an entire QB text club...where he sent you the game dates & times. So how is that being clueless & watching YouTube?  Man...total ignorance on your part from that post

You are an Allen hater and have proven time after time. You come on here like a peacock telling everyone how you watched Josh Allen play and that you knew it all. Or at least that is how I took your post. I watched him in person a lot. Plus 2 bowl games. The BYU game was played in a monsoon in the 1st half. If you actually knew how our OC handled Allen , you wouldn't pop off about stats and other things.

 

This part gets old by here we go again. Wyoming ran the ball a lot. The other team knew what we were going to run. The OC was expecting Allen to bail him out on 3rd and long. The defense brought pressure, played an 8 man front. They jammed our receivers early, took away the screen. Our OC had very few pass patterns across the middle, so that would take 1/3 of Allens field away. Our routes were simple, our receivers couldn't get seperation. So it was thread the needle or throw it over the top of the defense or on the outside of the shoulder. 

 

When you watched Wyoming, did you see our converted middle linebacker playing running back? Did you watch him run ? He ran the ball straight up. And he was 6 '1", and didn't get any pass routes out of the backfield. Did you see our fullback? He got 1 carry all year. That was in the bowl game. I could go on like this all day with the offense. Our line, 2 freshman, 2 sophomores, 1 senior for starters. Our receivers continually came up short on 1st downs, knowing we needed the yards. If Allen was chased out of the pocket, they stood and watched. They quit on their routes about half the time. They didn't block. No speed, unimaginative routes by the OC. Our OC is not an FBS coach. Half of the offensive coaches should have stayed at NDSU.

 

Allen actually learned a lot between his 1st and 2nd year. I will be the first to admit he didn't look very good until the Air Force Game. It just wasn't the same old Josh. He was trying to play the way the OC wanted him to. He was trying to cover for how bad the offense really was. He probably shouldn't have even come back for his junior year. But he knew he wasn't ready. He still isn't,  but his skills are. Lucky for everyone that he is a very fast learner. I like Bills fans. A hell of a lot better than Cleveland fans by a longshot. Those guys think they went 16-0 last year the way they talk. I would have preferred Allen went to a more stable team, but it is what it is. Most of the guys on here have accepted he is the qb, then we have guys like you. Stomping their feet because he wasn't the guy you wanted. All I can tell you is give him a chance, he is a winner. It might not always be pretty , but the results are good if the deck isn't stacked. There are some chapters in the book that aren't so great, but it is a great read for the most part. Get on board is all I can tell you .

[SouthNYfan]

On 5/19/2018 at 3:47 AM, Doc Brown said:

So, it only took five or so months of QB draft talk to finally pick an area Allen came in 1st with.

 

On 5/19/2018 at 1:54 PM, RocCityRoller said:

 

Wonderlic

Release time

Ball Velocity

 

Hand size

Looks good in shorts

On 5/24/2018 at 5:59 PM, Scorp83 said:

I've actually watched his games... as I've stated plenty of times on this board. But I won't fault you for not knowing that, I'll just keep repeating it.

 

The jury is still out with Beane... only time will tell if he knows what he's doing. I've been around this game longer then Beane. Just because I've chose to not make a career as a talent evaluator doesn't mean I'm clueless & don't know my bum from my elbow.

If Beane is right...great! I'm probably the one guy that would be excited to be wrong!

But, I don't think this front office knows entirely what they're doing...yet

Some....not all....some of their moves screams they hate talented players...which really Bothers me.

Incognito, Sammy, Dareus, Darby, Glenn heck even Rosen... they all have issues with them being cocky, having swagger, or some unfortunate injury that lingers. 

 

McDermott besides his mentor...has some of the worse game management skills I've seen since Andy Reid. I'm scared to be in a big game with this guy & he runs the clock out cause he forgets to use his timeouts. & he also have knee jerk reactions... like benching Tyrod in a winnable game against the Chargers.

 

So sorry if I'm not jumping on board with them planning then drafting Josh Allen over a slew of more creditable QB's like Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Rosen, & Lamar Jackson. 

 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:08 PM, Scorp83 said:

People dislike Tyrod... I beg you to watch Josh Allen games in full! Like I've said, I got through 6 games before telling Jeremy from WGR to stop texting me Josh Allen games! They were horrible... 140 yards here, 202 yards there... bad mechanics, over throwing the RB in the flats, missing wide open WR's down field.... nobody wants to talk about that.

People just want to believe pie in the sky because he's a Bill. News flash... it's almost possible we got it wrong. Everything our new front office has done isn't the greatest of moves.  They've made some good moves & they've made some really questionable moves. 

 

I didn't know Allen only played 6 games in college.

Great sample size.

I heard that Nick Foles is the best QB in history by somebody who just watched the SB.

Try harder.

 

 

[Scorp83]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:00 PM, John from Riverside said:

Just show me where Josh Rosen is taking hits at this point in camp and we can have a discussion...until then there is no arguement to be made.

 

Josh Rosen was the most accurate/pure qb in this draft and minus the concussion issues would have/should have been the number 1 overall pick.

 

The problem is we dont play in that vacuum....Josh Rosen also plays a style of football where he takes those hits and if the cardinals coaching staff does not work that out of him he is gonna have a  short career. 

 

We are not drafting a QB for the next year or couple of years....if Josh Allen hits he is our qb for like the next 12 years

 

Its interesting how every time a fan agrees with something the bills did.....they are wearing their rose colored glasses....maybe they just know more about the situation then you do?

 

 

Yea whatever... 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Scorp83 said:

Yea whatever... 

I just want to clarify because I dont know everything....when I talk about "they" I mean the bills decision makers.....not other fans.

[Scorp83]

On 5/26/2018 at 11:51 PM, BB@Shooter said:

You are an Allen hater and have proven time after time. You come on here like a peacock telling everyone how you watched Josh Allen play and that you knew it all. Or at least that is how I took your post. I watched him in person a lot. Plus 2 bowl games. The BYU game was played in a monsoon in the 1st half. If you actually knew how our OC handled Allen , you wouldn't pop off about stats and other things.

 

This part gets old by here we go again. Wyoming ran the ball a lot. The other team knew what we were going to run. The OC was expecting Allen to bail him out on 3rd and long. The defense brought pressure, played an 8 man front. They jammed our receivers early, took away the screen. Our OC had very few pass patterns across the middle, so that would take 1/3 of Allens field away. Our routes were simple, our receivers couldn't get seperation. So it was thread the needle or throw it over the top of the defense or on the outside of the shoulder. 

 

When you watched Wyoming, did you see our converted middle linebacker playing running back? Did you watch him run ? He ran the ball straight up. And he was 6 '1", and didn't get any pass routes out of the backfield. Did you see our fullback? He got 1 carry all year. That was in the bowl game. I could go on like this all day with the offense. Our line, 2 freshman, 2 sophomores, 1 senior for starters. Our receivers continually came up short on 1st downs, knowing we needed the yards. If Allen was chased out of the pocket, they stood and watched. They quit on their routes about half the time. They didn't block. No speed, unimaginative routes by the OC. Our OC is not an FBS coach. Half of the offensive coaches should have stayed at NDSU.

 

Allen actually learned a lot between his 1st and 2nd year. I will be the first to admit he didn't look very good until the Air Force Game. It just wasn't the same old Josh. He was trying to play the way the OC wanted him to. He was trying to cover for how bad the offense really was. He probably shouldn't have even come back for his junior year. But he knew he wasn't ready. He still isn't,  but his skills are. Lucky for everyone that he is a very fast learner. I like Bills fans. A hell of a lot better than Cleveland fans by a longshot. Those guys think they went 16-0 last year the way they talk. I would have preferred Allen went to a more stable team, but it is what it is. Most of the guys on here have accepted he is the qb, then we have guys like you. Stomping their feet because he wasn't the guy you wanted. All I can tell you is give him a chance, he is a winner. It might not always be pretty , but the results are good if the deck isn't stacked. There are some chapters in the book that aren't so great, but it is a great read for the most part. Get on board is all I can tell you .

No I won't give him a shot...when he proves it, he'll get his shot. & he hasn't won crap...so what are you talking about?

Edited May 28, 2018 by Scorp83

[Scorp83]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:48 AM, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

Hand size

Looks good in shorts

 

 

I didn't know Allen only played 6 games in college.

Great sample size.

I heard that Nick Foles is the best QB in history by somebody who just watched the SB.

Try harder.

 

 

You can only watched horrible QB play for so long... I'm sorry that's not good enough for you. But he wasn't a Bill during the college season... this is what I mean by people have to take the Bills shades off. Now that he's a Bill you expect people perspective to change...sorry bud...i don't live in La La Land ... he suck...& he wasn't getting a 7th game out of me. It doesn't change cause the Bills goofed up & drafted him

Edited May 28, 2018 by Scorp83
Typo

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

You can only watched horrible QB play for so long... I'm sorry that's not good enough for you. But he wasn't a Bill during the college season... this is what I mean by people have to take the Bills shades off. Now that he's a Bill you expect people perspective to change...sorry bud...i don't live in La La Land ... he suck...& he wasn't getting a 7th game out of me. It doesn't change cause the Bills goofed up & drafted him

I gotta admit....this is a pretty good troll job.  Kudos

[BB@Shooter]

22 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

No I won't give him a shot...when he proves it, he'll get his shot. & he hasn't won crap...so what are you talking about?

And he hasn't lost crap either. Darnold has a poor first few days and not a peep? Why is that? Doesn't fit your agenda? And you are and admitted Philly fan. Can you say Troll?

Edited May 28, 2018 by BB@Shooter
Adding info

[Scorp83]

On 5/28/2018 at 5:19 PM, BB@Shooter said:

And he hasn't lost crap either. Darnold has a poor first few days and not a peep? Why is that? Doesn't fit your agenda? And you are and admitted Philly fan. Can you say Troll?

No... I'm a Bills fan. Been a Bills fan since 1989. I'm Philly with everything else, except football. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

On May 26, 2018 at 10:00 PM, John from Riverside said:

Just show me where Josh Rosen is taking hits at this point in camp and we can have a discussion...until then there is no arguement to be made.

 

Josh Rosen was the most accurate/pure qb in this draft and minus the concussion issues would have/should have been the number 1 overall pick.

 

The problem is we dont play in that vacuum....Josh Rosen also plays a style of football where he takes those hits and if the cardinals coaching staff does not work that out of him he is gonna have a  short career. 

 

We are not drafting a QB for the next year or couple of years....if Josh Allen hits he is our qb for like the next 12 years

 

Its interesting how every time a fan agrees with something the bills did.....they are wearing their rose colored glasses....maybe they just know more about the situation then you do?

 

 

 

 

Of of all the previous things about Rosen THIS is also the one that maybe matters the most.

 

i just think there would have been little chance to see Rosen staying in Buffalo after 4-5 years, even if he had success here.  That's a guy who wouldn't ever consider himself blessed that he is a Buffalo Bill and part of this community.

 

That's not even primarily the "d**k factor" on Rosen which I've brought up before (please, please, stop with this "he's going to challenge authority" crap).  I just never saw this community being part of this guy's world.

[cd1]

Ever been to a nice party then someone shows up who has real bad gas?

 

wow...

[Cripple Creek]

On 5/19/2018 at 10:32 AM, NewEra said:

He’s been 1st in arm strength since day one.  But make things up.

So you’re saying that it’s only arm strength and it’s only effective in the red zone? 

On 5/24/2018 at 5:59 PM, Scorp83 said:

I've actually watched his games... as I've stated plenty of times on this board. But I won't fault you for not knowing that, I'll just keep repeating it.

 

The jury is still out with Beane... only time will tell if he knows what he's doing. I've been around this game longer then Beane. Just because I've chose to not make a career as a talent evaluator doesn't mean I'm clueless & don't know my bum from my elbow.

If Beane is right...great! I'm probably the one guy that would be excited to be wrong!

But, I don't think this front office knows entirely what they're doing...yet

Some....not all....some of their moves screams they hate talented players...which really Bothers me.

Incognito, Sammy, Dareus, Darby, Glenn heck even Rosen... they all have issues with them being cocky, having swagger, or some unfortunate injury that lingers. 

 

McDermott besides his mentor...has some of the worse game management skills I've seen since Andy Reid. I'm scared to be in a big game with this guy & he runs the clock out cause he forgets to use his timeouts. & he also have knee jerk reactions... like benching Tyrod in a winnable game against the Chargers.

 

So sorry if I'm not jumping on board with them planning then drafting Josh Allen over a slew of more creditable QB's like Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Rosen, & Lamar Jackson. 

Perhaps it is you the jury is still out on?

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

So you’re saying that it’s only arm strength and it’s only effective in the red zone? 

Perhaps it is you the jury is still out on?

?

 

i responded to someone saying that it took a month to find something that josh Allen was best at with regards to this qb class,  which was red zone accuracy or something along those lines.  I responded with, he’s been #1 in arm strength, which refutes the post I was responding to.  That’s all I said. 

[TheFunPolice]

I agree with those who said arm strength is a huge plus down there...

 

The ability to get the ball to the open spot faster is essential. CBs are so quick that you might only get half a second before they close. If you can put the ball there in time it's a TD rather than an incomplete or INT