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5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Right. You're catching on.

Shall we pull up your horrible takes on Carson Wentz? Then find mine on Mike Glennon? Then we can both be dismissed from the conversation and hit the bar?

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

His passing TDs tend to point another direction

Did Ty Detmer throw a lot of touchdowns? Rick Mirer? Vince Young? Oh what about Taj Boyd?

 

That means nothing.

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2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Shall we pull up your horrible takes on Carson Wentz? Then find mine on Mike Glennon? Then we can both be dismissed from the conversation and hit the bar?

Did Ty Detmer throw a lot of touchdowns? Rick Mirer? Vince Young? Oh what about Taj Boyd?

 

That means nothing.

OK

So then what should we be looking at when trying to project a NFL qb if we are not at least going to take a look at production?

 

If Lamar was more accurate he would be drafted at the top of the 1st.....EVERYONE of these QBs has got some sort of negative

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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OK

So then what should we be looking at when trying to project a NFL qb if we are not at least going to take a look at production?

 

If Lamar was more accurate he would be drafted at the top of the 1st.....EVERYONE of these QBs has got some sort of negative

 

But he's the only one who scored ridiculously low on the Wonderlic and has his mommy as his agent.  This dude has red flags all over the place, John.

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

OK

So then what should we be looking at when trying to project a NFL qb if we are not at least going to take a look at production?

 

If Lamar was more accurate he would be drafted at the top of the 1st.....EVERYONE of these QBs has got some sort of negative

Right. Deciding which flaws are fatal is not that difficult. Can't fix stupid. Might be able to fix the accuracy and poor footwork though.

 

 

That's the concern and I said the same thing when the initial feedback from the combine was that Allen was a rock as well. He scored well on the wonderlic and I suppose that helps his case. Lamar struggled on whiteboards then bombed the wonderlic. That is the only insight we have into how smart these guys are and neither result was good. 

 

For his sake sake hopefully he proves everyone wrong. For my sanity I don't want another QB who can't understand the game and process it in under 3 seconds. 

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Just now, Gugny said:

 

But he's the only one who scored ridiculously low on the Wonderlic and has his mommy as his agent.  This dude has red flags all over the place, John.

Red flags for off the field stuff......

 

By the way....I really dont consider loving his mommy to really be that much of a red flag.....he is sticking with who he trusts. 

 

I only care about one thing.....CAN THE KID PLAY FOOTBALL.....

 

....he can

.....he is uber talented both in arm and mobility

....he has gotten better EVERY YEAR and has room to grow further

....he comes out of college injury free

 

He is not my top choice because I want to see what a really accurate passer would look like under bills center.....but unlike many here I realize you cannot be locked in onto one player in a draft with 31 other NFL teams looking to improve themselves as well......I think Bean is trying to trade up....and I think he will not hurt the franchise in a attempt to do so with so much qb talent available....

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19 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Shall we pull up your horrible takes on Carson Wentz? Then find mine on Mike Glennon? Then we can both be dismissed from the conversation and hit the bar?

 

The difference is my take will eventually be proven true :P

Edited by HappyDays

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6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Red flags for off the field stuff......

 

By the way....I really dont consider loving his mommy to really be that much of a red flag.....he is sticking with who he trusts. 

 

I only care about one thing.....CAN THE KID PLAY FOOTBALL.....

 

....he can

.....he is uber talented both in arm and mobility

....he has gotten better EVERY YEAR and has room to grow further

....he comes out of college injury free

 

He is not my top choice because I want to see what a really accurate passer would look like under bills center.....but unlike many here I realize you cannot be locked in onto one player in a draft with 31 other NFL teams looking to improve themselves as well......I think Bean is trying to trade up....and I think he will not hurt the franchise in a attempt to do so with so much qb talent available....

I think everyone is in the same boat. Some guys like one QB more than others but mostly it's just about getting a guy good enough to win with. The fear with sitting at 12 and taking Lamar is in two years we are sitting here saying he is fun to watch but he just isn't good enough. He really did himself a disservice by not hiring an agent and going unprepared. If he had scored and interviewed better it would make his selection more understandable.

 

FWIW when I heard Allen was a rock after the combine I labeled him as a do not touch. Then he aces the wonderlic and we can atleast determine that he has a brain, still worrying about the football part of things. Lamar missed that opportunity by scoring so low.

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14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Red flags for off the field stuff......

 

By the way....I really dont consider loving his mommy to really be that much of a red flag.....he is sticking with who he trusts. 

 

I only care about one thing.....CAN THE KID PLAY FOOTBALL.....

 

....he can

.....he is uber talented both in arm and mobility

....he has gotten better EVERY YEAR and has room to grow further

....he comes out of college injury free

 

He is not my top choice because I want to see what a really accurate passer would look like under bills center.....but unlike many here I realize you cannot be locked in onto one player in a draft with 31 other NFL teams looking to improve themselves as well......I think Bean is trying to trade up....and I think he will not hurt the franchise in a attempt to do so with so much qb talent available....

I don't think he is uber talented but he might be a good uber driver in 3 years.

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58 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

But he's the only one who scored ridiculously low on the Wonderlic and has his mommy as his agent.  This dude has red flags all over the place, John.

 

You seem obsessed with Jackson’s wonderlic score. I could care less if he got a 13, go watch his unreal tape. Teams only care if the QB has the intelligence to handle the offense they’d be implementing, and whether or not he has the leadership qualities to become a long term franchise QB.

 

IMO Jackson has very high football intelligence. He makes decisions hyper-quickly, and seems to have a sixth sense during the course of plays. I predict he'll become the most beloved QB by his team in this draft. Jackson is a guy that other NFL players will want to play with and will want to be lead by.

 

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2 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

You seem obsessed with Jackson’s wonderlic score. I could care less if he got a 13, go watch his unreal tape. Teams only care if the QB has the intelligence to handle the offense they’d be implementing, and whether or not he has the leadership qualities to become a long term franchise QB.

 

IMO Jackson has very high football intelligence. He makes decisions hyper-quickly, and seems to have a sixth sense during the course of plays. I predict he'll become the most beloved QB by his team in this draft. Jackson is a guy that other NFL players will want to play with and will want to be lead by.

 

 

Can I watch Tebow's unreal tape?  Then Vince Young's unreal tape?  How about Ryan Leaf's unreal tape, or Jamarcus Russell?

 

Great college QBs don't always (rarely, in fact) make great NFL QBs.

 

Great college QBs who aren't smart enough to break 16 on the wonderlic NEVER make good NFL QBs.

 

They're great in college because they're playing against defenses that have - MAYBE - one future NFL starter on the field at any given time.

 

Leaders don't hire mommy to be their agents.  And true NFL QB prospects don't need to take any time to prove to NFL teams that they're actually a QB.

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11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Can I watch Tebow's unreal tape?  Then Vince Young's unreal tape?  How about Ryan Leaf's unreal tape, or Jamarcus Russell?

 

Great college QBs don't always (rarely, in fact) make great NFL QBs.

 

Great college QBs who aren't smart enough to break 16 on the wonderlic NEVER make good NFL QBs.

 

They're great in college because they're playing against defenses that have - MAYBE - one future NFL starter on the field at any given time.

 

Leaders don't hire mommy to be their agents.  And true NFL QB prospects don't need to take any time to prove to NFL teams that they're actually a QB.

So why are we so high on the supposid top three if this is even the case?   Why not just draft where we draft and not give up our picks?

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13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Can I watch Tebow's unreal tape?  Then Vince Young's unreal tape?  How about Ryan Leaf's unreal tape, or Jamarcus Russell?

 

Great college QBs don't always (rarely, in fact) make great NFL QBs.

 

Great college QBs who aren't smart enough to break 16 on the wonderlic NEVER make good NFL QBs.

 

They're great in college because they're playing against defenses that have - MAYBE - one future NFL starter on the field at any given time.

 

Leaders don't hire mommy to be their agents.  And true NFL QB prospects don't need to take any time to prove to NFL teams that they're actually a QB.

 

What?! Where was that one ever written? If I were Jackson's team mate, having his Mom as his agent tells me I'd never have worry about him being tackled by a cop in the middle of the night.

 

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3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Calling a stupid person stupid is a personal attack?  Color me guilty, then.

 

 

 

Well... yeah, you're guilty.  Glad you can admit that.

 

It's like if people in this thread called you a loser.  Just because you're proving in this thread you're a loser, it's still a personal attack.

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3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

My observation has been that since 2000 - every single QB who has scored under 16 has not been a successful NFL starter.  100% of them over the past 18 seasons.  Lamar Jackson scored a 13.  A !@#$ing 13.

 

I've never said anything about a "southern slang," with regard to predicting the level of one's success as an NFL QB.

 

We don't put words in others' mouths around here.

 

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Because, every QB that people have cited played 30+ years ago.


Maybe you haven't noticed or you just don't understand the game is fundamentally different now than then. QBs need to process quickly. 13 ain't gonna cut it, sorry.

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

That's exactly what I mean.

 

If the guy knows he'll be tested IN ADVANCE and can't manage to do the work to score well on it (or is too stupid to realize he can) then I want him nowhere near this team.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

Edited by transplantbillsfan

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3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

But he's the only one who scored ridiculously low on the Wonderlic and has his mommy as his agent.  This dude has red flags all over the place, John.

 

Not that it will stop anyone here, but I thought it had been shown by someone with access that at least half the leaked Wonderlic scores were incorrect.  

Just to keep in mind that the leaked scores should not be taken as Gospel.  I, personally, would put a lot more weight on what I got out of talking to the guy and doing whiteboard stuff with him than how he did on a strange test brewed up by crossing an SAT with an intelligence test and hiding the calculator.

 

I don’t know what to make of the “mom is my manager, I don’t have an agent” thing.  Reportedly Felicia Jones has some sh**.  Jackson said she used to put on pads and practice with him.   Reportedly she used to call Jackson and his WR roommate after every game and give them play by play feedback.  Jackson got sent to receive punts in a Louisville practice - once.  Practically before practice ended, she had Petrino on the phone reminding him of his recruiting promises and that never happened again.  Calling her “his mommy” seems a bit like calling Hurricane Maria a “wee little storm”.  She’s a freakin’ force of nature, Man.  It may not be the best choice, but she’s not your ordinary mommy.  

 

Two stories about Jackson’s mom:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/03/lamar-jackson-mother-felicia-jones-draft-agent-manager-louisville
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17949555/louisville-cardinals-quarterback-lamar-jackson-first-trainer-was-mother

 

So is it the best thing for Jackson, can’t say, point is - this isn’t what you might ordinary think when you hear “his mommy”.  This is an astute, driven woman who outmaneuvered Petrino and the Louisville coaches during recruiting and who seems to have built a plan with her son.

 

 

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan

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3 hours ago, joesixpack said:


Because, Lord Twatwaffle, it's germane. Intelligence in a QB is important in the NFL. Not so much when you're playing northwestern central kentucky state.

 

 

Can you tell me which of these questions are the strongest indicators of NFL success for a QB and how they apply to an NFL football field?

 

 

Casey needed to move 23 huge boxes from his truck to the loading dock. His forklift could only hold three boxes at once. How many times did Casey have to visit the loading dock?

 

Which word is different from the others?  (Apple, Orange, Watermelon, Celery, Tomato)

 

In four years, Phil will be half Tim’s age. Two years ago, Tim was five times Phil’s age. How old is Phil now?

 

To thwart is to:  (threaten, oppose, weaken, make fun of)

 

What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words?

 

Choose the sentence that most closely resembles the meaning of the proverb, “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

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30 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

 

https://footballiqscore.com/result/27515.

 

Boom.

 

In other words, I'm a little more than 3x smarter than Lamar Jackson. Take that for what it's worth. :lol:
 

 

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Can you tell me which of these questions are the strongest indicators of NFL success for a QB and how they apply to an NFL football field?

 

 

Casey needed to move 23 huge boxes from his truck to the loading dock. His forklift could only hold three boxes at once. How many times did Casey have to visit the loading dock?

 

Which word is different from the others?  (Apple, Orange, Watermelon, Celery, Tomato)

 

In four years, Phil will be half Tim’s age. Two years ago, Tim was five times Phil’s age. How old is Phil now?

 

To thwart is to:  (threaten, oppose, weaken, make fun of)

 

What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words?

 

Choose the sentence that most closely resembles the meaning of the proverb, “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

 

It was a challenge to process the information and come up with an answer, but I answered 49/50 questions before time ran out, and got 40/49 right.

 

With no preparation.

 

The dude is a dunce, and is a hard pass for me.

 

Also, transplant, an NFL playbook is HEAVY on verbal recall and processing.

 

Edited by joesixpack

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6 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

https://footballiqscore.com/result/27515.

 

Boom.

 

In other words, I'm a little more than 3x smarter than Lamar Jackson. Take that for what it's worth. :lol:

 

 

If you honestly think that test is indicative of your intelligence, you're pretty naïve.

 

I scored a 22 when I discovered that test and decided to take it.

 

I really have no shame in saying that was my score.  And I wouldn't have any shame in saying I scored a 13 if I did.  I see standardized tests up close and personal all the time and understand the incredibly flawed nature of them in terms of what they're designed to measure versus what they actually measure.

 

I've seen your posts.  You're not almost twice as smart as me.

 

 

I won't make any excuses for that score, whatsoever, but I know that a 22 on the Wonderlic is not indicative of my actual intelligence because I know that if I sat here and took that test again in a quiet room, focused and used some test taking strategies, I could drastically improve my score.  But I'll let that 22 stand because I don't have anything to prove to myself.  If anything, taking that test just further proves to me the idiocy of standardized tests, in general.

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3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

If you honestly think that test is indicative of your intelligence, you're pretty naïve.

 

I scored a 22 when I discovered that test and decided to take it.

 

I really have no shame in saying that was my score.  And I wouldn't have any shame in saying I scored a 13 if I did.  I see standardized tests up close and personal all the time and understand the incredibly flawed nature of them in terms of what they're designed to measure versus what they actually measure.

 

I've seen your posts.  You're not almost twice as smart as me.

 

 

I won't make any excuses for that score, whatsoever, but I know that a 22 on the Wonderlic is not indicative of my actual intelligence because I know that if I sat here and took that test again in a quiet room, focused and used some test taking strategies, I could drastically improve my score.  But I'll let that 22 stand because I don't have anything to prove to myself.  If anything, taking that test just further proves to me the idiocy of standardized tests, in general.

 

In other words, your point was invalidated in your hubris.

 

My point, however, still stands.

 

The guy is a dim bulb for not doing everything he can to maximize his opportunity, and that alone is a disqualifier for any serious team.

 

And if he's that stupid to pass on an opportunity by keeping his mother on as his agent, then he's just too stupid to be a starting NFL QB on any team I'd care to follow.

 

13 man. 13.

 

 

Edited by joesixpack

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1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

In other words, your point was invalidated in your hubris.

 

My point, however, still stands.

 

The guy is a dim bulb for not doing everything he can to maximize his opportunity, and that alone is a disqualifier for any serious team.

 

And if he's that stupid to pass on an opportunity by keeping his mother on as his agent, then he's just too stupid to be a starting NFL QB on any team I'd care to follow.

 

13 man. 13.

 

I'm not invalidating my score.

 

I just told you it stands.

 

You're right in a sense about hubris in the sense that I just decided to take the test on a whim for fun during recess in my classroom with students chatting and doing work on the side.

 

And I was a bit dismissive of it in terms of attitude.

 

Do you know Lamar Jackson's approach to the test?

 

Do you know if he took it seriously?

 

 

Based off his own history, if anything, it's possible schools did what they often do for star athletes which is push them through the system at a lower bar than regular students purely because of how talented they are and what they bring to their school.  So, it's possible that Jackson doesn't have the same amount of knowledge you or I have, but knowledge does not equal intelligence and knowledge doesn't really relate to one's ability to process new information.

 

As far as processing football information of an offense and on the field... well, there's his game tape and there's also how damn hard he worked as he came into Louisville without having ever had to use an offensive playbook in High School:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2662128-the-education-of-lamar-jackson-how-louisville-qb-went-from-project-to-superstar

The Education of Lamar Jackson: How Louisville QB Went from Project to Superstar

 

He picked Louisville, knowing coach Bobby Petrino's history of developing QBs. Then Petrino delivered the playbook.

 

"It looked like foreign letters," Jackson remembers. "I came from a high school where I didn't have a playbook or anything like that. Coach would draw it up and get the headset on, and we'd go after it."

 

and

 

 

And so when Jackson arrived on campus, he was not even named among the three guys who might be the starting quarterback. The playbook was still Greek to him, as were progressions, tight ends in motion and blitzes. Darn blitzes.

 

That was a year ago. A few days ago, he threw for six touchdowns and ran for two more.

 

and

 

"At first, I was like, 'Why are they trying to make me do this?'" Jackson says. "'I'm trying to sleep.' It was crazy. I'd watch my bad plays—my good plays, too."

 

The truth is, at first he wasn't even sure exactly what he was watching. Then it started making sense, and he realized he enjoyed it. "When I started getting more into it, I realized, 'This is what I'm here for.'"

 

and

 

Petrino says some of the things usually considered "natural intangibles" need to be worked on, too. For example, last year, Jackson was petrified to talk with the media. So he took a media class and also enlisted the help of a local reporter.

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Posted this in the college post

 

https://cfbcomparisons.com/a-j-mccarron-vs-lamar-jackson-college-comparison/

 

Thoughts?

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

 

Didn't he lose every game against high level competition? Not sure if he did. Not sure why people are defending the guy to this extent. If you like him fine. If you don't cool. Not sure he is the next franchise q.b. Nothing has shown me that he has that potential.

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1 hour ago, Bfanlc said:

Posted this in the college post

 

https://cfbcomparisons.com/a-j-mccarron-vs-lamar-jackson-college-comparison/

 

Thoughts?

 

Didn't he lose every game against high level competition? Not sure if he did. Not sure why people are defending the guy to this extent. If you like him fine. If you don't cool. Not sure he is the next franchise q.b. Nothing has shown me that he has that potential.

Jackson threads are like Allen threads in that there is little room for middle ground with extreme positions on either side taking up most of the space. 

Edited by racketmaster

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2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

As a prospect he has the most ability. As a passer his numbers are just as prolific as Rosen.  Rosen is considered the best natural passer in the draft.  He had a better career running the football than Saquan Barkley, more yards, TDs, higher ypc.  Barkley is the consensus #1 player.  The agent part is a concern.  Though with the rookie wage scale I understand the thinking.  Day 1 he will be electric.  Will he put the time and personal investment into becoming great?  Idk  him and keeping 22 makes alot of sense to me.

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