Making the case for Lamar Jackson

[Reed83HOF]

10 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Passing for 3500 past two years, and has rushed for more yards and tds than saquan barkley.  He is the most dynamic qb since Vick.  More polished in the pocket, and a better runner.  To think he is not in consideration at 12 or higher is not accurate.  

Dynamic QBs suck

[Buffalo Ballin]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Dynamic QBs suck

No. Steve Young, Cam Newton, and Russell Wilson are great.

[PIZ]

Here's his 2016 Heisman award speech, if you're interested.

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

No. Steve Young, Cam Newton, and Russell Wilson are great.

Steve Young wasn't good until he was a Pocket Passer, Cam is overrated, Russell Wilson - meh...

 

Best was Randall Cunningham imo and it is honestly not a style of play I care for. QBs job is to read the D, call the plays and get the ball to the playmakers...

[Buffalo Ballin]

5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Steve Young wasn't good until he was a Pocket Passer, Cam is overrated, Russell Wilson - meh...

 

Best was Randall Cunningham imo and it is honestly not a style of play I care for. QBs job is to read the D, call the plays and get the ball to the playmakers...

That's opinion, not facts.

 

Cam is overrated? LOL. Dude is a League MVP and led his team to the Super Bowl. He's also a stat machine. Steve Young was always a dynamic QB. It was later on with the Niners when things to started to click with him; a slow learner. He can definitely run with the best in the NFL at the time. Russell Wilson is meh? Uh wow. He's a superstar and the very definition of a dynamic QB.

 

You just hate Lamar Jackson. Give him a chance. Kid is a beast.

 

 

[502Buffs]

2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

 

I genuinely don't know.

 

But is there a highlight tape of him not running? It was mostly running. I would like to see a tape of him just executing an NFL style drive. Short and medium passes driving the team down the field please. That would give me a way better idea.

 

[Reed83HOF]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

That's opinion, not facts.

 

Cam is overrated? LOL. Dude is a League MVP and led his team to the Super Bowl. He's also a stat machine. Steve Young was always a dynamic QB. It was later on with the Niners when things to started to click with him; a slow learner. He can definitely run with the best in the NFL at the time. Russell Wilson is meh? Uh wow. He's a superstar and the very definition of a dynamic QB.

 

You just hate Lamar Jackson. Give him a chance. Kid is a beast.

 

 

I have nothing personal against Lamar at all, running/dynamic QBs are nothing special; they will never be a complete QB. If you want someone who is a dynamic runner and have electric moves when they have the ball in their hands, they should be a RB or WR. That is what those positions are supposed to do, a QB is like a point guard - distribute the ball to the playmakers...

 

This article is a bit old I admit, but it still rings true:

 

Peyton Manning, Colts QB: You hear a lot about how the scrambling quarterback is the new wave, with the pocket guy sort of fading out. To me the scrambling quarterback is a guy who, maybe, doesn't know what he's doing.

 

Bill Walsh, Genius: There just isn't a way to play the position as a pure runner. We've seen it attempted over the years, but never with great success. Steve Young was as great a runner as there has ever been in football but he didn't start to make a difference until he became a great passer as well.

 

John Lynch, Bucs safety: There've been a lot of tremendous athletes who didn't turn out to be such great QBs. That's because guys who run a lot may have some early success, but over time, they're a lot easier to stop.

 

Walsh: What happens is that sooner or later those openings to run aren't there anymore, and if you haven't developed as a passer, your wide receivers will just be standing around downfield watching their quarterback run around.

 

Billick: So your quarterback takes off and runs-great, you've got a 6-to-8-yard gain. But he missed the 40-yard TD pass to a guy standing alone in the end zone. The drop-back guy can make those big plays down the field. The negative side is that if he's not very mobile, there are limited ways to protect him. A stationary target can be pretty easy to knock down.

 

Manning: Look, we're all drop-back, pocket QBs. I mean, no one's running the option in the NFL. When Andy Reid calls a play for Donovan, he wants him to hit the pocket, go through his read progressions and then, only if things break down or nobody's open, does he say, "Okay, now go be an athlete and make something happen."

Manning: It's not who's the runner and who's the thrower. It's who's the complete quarterback.

 

http://www.espn.com/magazine/vol4no18qbdebate.html

 

Edit: RG3 if he developed as a passer, could still be in the league, his leg is shot and well he sure is no longer dynamic now. QBs need to be able to diagnose the play, pass the ball and deliver it with pin point accuracy in an extremely tight window...

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Reed83HOF

[BadLandsMeanie]

12 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

 

 Thanks 502!

[502Buffs]

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

Are there any good interviews out there with Lamar Jackson?  I've seen interviews with the top 4, but not Jackson or Rudolph; 2 guys talked a lot about on TBD.

 

 

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

At least skycap has conviction about the player

 

You got nothing....you continue to have nothing.....and simply just react to other peoples posts without generating an opinion of your own

which makes you nothing

Every blog site needs a troll.

44 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Steve Young wasn't good until he was a Pocket Passer, Cam is overrated, Russell Wilson - meh...

 

Best was Randall Cunningham imo and it is honestly not a style of play I care for. QBs job is to read the D, call the plays and get the ball to the playmakers...

What if the QB is the best playmaker/runner on the field? Makes the job a lot easier.

[Reed83HOF]

10 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

What if the QB is the best playmaker/runner on the field? Makes the job a lot easier.

 

For the defense....

[502Buffs]

22 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I have nothing personal against Lamar at all, running/dynamic QBs are nothing special; they will never be a complete QB. If you want someone who is a dynamic runner and have electric moves when they have the ball in their hands, they should be a RB or WR. That is what those positions are supposed to do, a QB is like a point guard - distribute the ball to the playmakers...

 

This article is a bit old I admit, but it still rings true:

 

Peyton Manning, Colts QB: You hear a lot about how the scrambling quarterback is the new wave, with the pocket guy sort of fading out. To me the scrambling quarterback is a guy who, maybe, doesn't know what he's doing.

 

Bill Walsh, Genius: There just isn't a way to play the position as a pure runner. We've seen it attempted over the years, but never with great success. Steve Young was as great a runner as there has ever been in football but he didn't start to make a difference until he became a great passer as well.

 

John Lynch, Bucs safety: There've been a lot of tremendous athletes who didn't turn out to be such great QBs. That's because guys who run a lot may have some early success, but over time, they're a lot easier to stop.

 

Walsh: What happens is that sooner or later those openings to run aren't there anymore, and if you haven't developed as a passer, your wide receivers will just be standing around downfield watching their quarterback run around.

 

Billick: So your quarterback takes off and runs-great, you've got a 6-to-8-yard gain. But he missed the 40-yard TD pass to a guy standing alone in the end zone. The drop-back guy can make those big plays down the field. The negative side is that if he's not very mobile, there are limited ways to protect him. A stationary target can be pretty easy to knock down.

 

Manning: Look, we're all drop-back, pocket QBs. I mean, no one's running the option in the NFL. When Andy Reid calls a play for Donovan, he wants him to hit the pocket, go through his read progressions and then, only if things break down or nobody's open, does he say, "Okay, now go be an athlete and make something happen."

Manning: It's not who's the runner and who's the thrower. It's who's the complete quarterback.

 

http://www.espn.com/magazine/vol4no18qbdebate.html

 

Edit: RG3 if he developed as a passer, could still be in the league, his leg is shot and well he sure is no longer dynamic now. QBs need to be able to diagnose the play, pass the ball and deliver it with pin point accuracy in an extremely tight window...

 

Well put. It is true an organized play is only supposed to last about 6-12 seconds. He definitely does need to develop the quick decision making part of the game to become great, but his agility and ball carrier vision are something to marvel at. Doesn't mean he has to play another position. 

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

For the defense....

The summary of this article based on everybody's collective opinion about him seems to be if he gets the right coaching and support he has super bowl winning, hall of fame potential...that's just what I'm seeing you all say!

[502Buffs]

28 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 Thanks 502!

Just trying to get BillsMafia on board! Notice how many of those throws are his 2nd or 3rd progressions.

[Reed83HOF]

26 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Well put. It is true an organized play is only supposed to last about 6-12 seconds. He definitely does need to develop the quick decision making part of the game to become great, but his agility and ball carrier vision are something to marvel at. Doesn't mean he has to play another position. 

 

I get where Polian was coming from, get the ball in your playmaker's hands and let him do what he does best; he's amazing and electrifying like that & can make guys miss. This allows him to make plays and use his tremendous athletic ability while not stunting the growth of the offense and possibly making it easier to defend.  I honestly think he would be freaking amazing as a WR, look at what he can do on the field ! Plus he is a bit light in the frame department, I would rather have him getting hit by DBs than Watt, Suh and Clowney, et al.

 

I'm going to make a generalization here, but I think it is fairly accurate. I don't want him controlling the offense. I feel this way because thus far in most dynamic QBs careers their success has been that they are more athletically gifted then most others - it's much harder in the NFL - everyone is a great athlete at this level. This narrows the talent gap and they aren't nearly as dynamic as they were before. The key is for them to be able to overcome and outgrow this; they must develop as a passer. As an athlete, that is very challenging for many to overcome since they have to learn to do something new and not rely on their athletic gift which they have relied on their entire athletic life up to now.

 

 

In regards to Cam, he is a star player, but a good, not great QB. The Kardashians are stars(not sure why and I am not saying Cam is like them, but he is well known).

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/09/26/cam-newton-is-struggling-and-it-doesnt-appear-likely-to-get-better/?utm_term=.ee06d3fb78b9

 

One of the absolute biggest, and one that gets swept under the rug because of Newton’s obvious drop in passing stats, is their quarterback being used as a runner. On designed runs for the quarterback that weren’t kneels or sneaks in 2015, Newton averaged 5.5 yards per carry (on 74 attempts) and scored eight touchdowns. In 2016, those designed runs netted the Panthers only 4.5 yards per carry (66 attempts) and five touchdowns. In 2017, he has only four carries for seven yards through three weeks. Put simply, the Panthers aren’t running with Cam Newton any more. And when they do, defenses have caught up schematically. They are no longer surprised when Jonathan Stewart turns into a lead blocker for Newton and aren’t leaving themselves a man short to stop the run.

 

With added defenders keen on paying attention to the run, though, it should theoretically leave Newton with more room to work in the passing game. This is the part of Newton’s regression that is easy to see in the box score. His completion percentage dropped 6.9 points from 2015 (59.8) to 2016 (52.9), and his adjusted completion percentage – which adds in drops and takes out throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB was hit in his throwing motion – hasn’t fared any better. He went from 71.5 percent in 2015 to 65.4 percent, dead last in the NFL, in 2016.  

 

Somewhere in the Panthers’ organization, they made a conscious effort to address that this offseason. With so many incomplete passes, it was difficult for the Panthers to sustain drives. So they drafted underneath passing threats in Christian McCaffrey and Curtis Samuel, and Newton currently has the second-highest completion percentage of his career (61.4).  

The switch hasn’t fixed the problem, though — it’s actually made it worse. Newton’s average depth of target has dropped from 10.9 and 11.0 in 2015 and 2016 (two of the highest figures in the league) to 8.4 this year. And those underneath throws he’s now making were actually his weakest throws a season ago. In terms of true accuracy (putting the ball on a receiver’s frame), Newton was the third-most-inaccurate screen thrower, second-most-inaccurate when asked to lead a receiver horizontally across the field and second-most-inaccurate on throws one to five yards down the field in 2016. The offense now asks him to do more of that. Accuracy isn’t a static quantity, though; Newton doesn’t struggle everywhere. In fact, he was the second-most-accurate quarterback in the NFL when aiming at stationary or slowly moving receivers exploiting a hole in zone coverage down the field. 

 

13 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Just trying to get BillsMafia on board! Notice how many of those throws are his 2nd or 3rd progressions.

Also I will do a LAMP, you look like you recently joined. If you look at what Beane looks for in a QB, Jackson does not appear to be that player...

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Reed83HOF

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

With the number 12th pick in the draft, the Buffalo Bills select Lamar Jackson from Louisville. Beane and company made their decision by now. Have a great Draft Night, dudes.

Yes Ballin!! Then with the remaining picks they decided to keep they select:

LB-LVE

DT-Tim Settle

WR-DJ Chark

OC-Billy Price

OLB-Shaquem Griffin

WR-Michael Gallup

OT-Timon Parris

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

That's opinion, not facts.

 

Cam is overrated? LOL. Dude is a League MVP and led his team to the Super Bowl. He's also a stat machine. Steve Young was always a dynamic QB. It was later on with the Niners when things to started to click with him; a slow learner. He can definitely run with the best in the NFL at the time. Russell Wilson is meh? Uh wow. He's a superstar and the very definition of a dynamic QB.

 

You just hate Lamar Jackson. Give him a chance. Kid is a beast.

Not a fan of sandlot football and that's what Dynamic QBs are. If you read what Beane wants in a a QB, it's not sandlot football.

 

Also this article actually sums up my feelings on Russell Wilson

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell

 

This style of play is inherently inconsistent—especially if your base running game is as poor as Seattle’s has been. But when Wilson makes magic from all this, you see what you saw last Sunday night: The Seahawks prospering despite their offensive line being overmatched by an explosive Eagles defensive line. When Wilson isn’t making magic, you see an offense with few staple concepts to fall back on, and you get the Seahawks offense from the first half of the Week 12 Niners game (129 net yards) or from the second half of the Week 10 Cardinals game (97 yards), second half of the Week 5 Rams game (54 yards) or either half of the Week 1 Packers game (225 yards total).

Wilson contributes to these down stretches, too. Many times, when the Seahawks do try to find a rhythm with more traditional pass designs (their best come out of trips formations), Wilson, because he’s so accustomed to breaking down, fails to see them anyway. We always say: There’s no stat to capture throws that should be attempted but aren’t. You see these every game from Wilson.

 

Of course, some of the time when Wilson fails to attempt an open throw, he winds up making a spectacular, out-of-structure play (especially when you include his scrambling, which picks up late in close games). I’d love to know what Bevell and Pete Carroll say to their QB when they watch these plays on film. From what I hear, it’s mostly Good job, Russ. The veteran coaches by now understand what Wilson is.

36 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

The summary of this article based on everybody's collective opinion about him seems to be if he gets the right coaching and support he has super bowl winning, hall of fame potential...that's just what I'm seeing you all say!

So does Josh Allen. Both of these guys scream bust and choosing between both of them I would take Allen all day long...

[BadLandsMeanie]

55 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Just trying to get BillsMafia on board! Notice how many of those throws are his 2nd or 3rd progressions.

Yes well those throws show some undeniable ability. But there are just ten. So Im not sold but it was nice to see some highlights were it wasn't like, Gee he is a great Qb look at him run! So thanks! It did pique my interest.

[502Buffs]

58 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Not a fan of sandlot football and that's what Dynamic QBs are. If you read what Beane wants in a a QB, it's not sandlot football.

 

Also this article actually sums up my feelings on Russell Wilson

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell

 

This style of play is inherently inconsistent—especially if your base running game is as poor as Seattle’s has been. But when Wilson makes magic from all this, you see what you saw last Sunday night: The Seahawks prospering despite their offensive line being overmatched by an explosive Eagles defensive line. When Wilson isn’t making magic, you see an offense with few staple concepts to fall back on, and you get the Seahawks offense from the first half of the Week 12 Niners game (129 net yards) or from the second half of the Week 10 Cardinals game (97 yards), second half of the Week 5 Rams game (54 yards) or either half of the Week 1 Packers game (225 yards total).

Wilson contributes to these down stretches, too. Many times, when the Seahawks do try to find a rhythm with more traditional pass designs (their best come out of trips formations), Wilson, because he’s so accustomed to breaking down, fails to see them anyway. We always say: There’s no stat to capture throws that should be attempted but aren’t. You see these every game from Wilson.

 

Of course, some of the time when Wilson fails to attempt an open throw, he winds up making a spectacular, out-of-structure play (especially when you include his scrambling, which picks up late in close games). I’d love to know what Bevell and Pete Carroll say to their QB when they watch these plays on film. From what I hear, it’s mostly Good job, Russ. The veteran coaches by now understand what Wilson is.

Imagine if a 'dynamic' qb like Wilson had the offensive line and running game we do. Not saying Jackson is Wilson, but Wilson was also a 4th round pick. I'll take a risk on an unpredictable, inconsistent qb who has MVP potential. That's what Lamar is.

[502Buffs]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

I get where Polian was coming from, get the ball in your playmaker's hands and let him do what he does best; he's amazing and electrifying like that & can make guys miss. This allows him to make plays and use his tremendous athletic ability while not stunting the growth of the offense and possibly making it easier to defend.  I honestly think he would be freaking amazing as a WR, look at what he can do on the field ! Plus he is a bit light in the frame department, I would rather have him getting hit by DBs than Watt, Suh and Clowney, et al.

 

I'm going to make a generalization here, but I think it is fairly accurate. I don't want him controlling the offense. I feel this way because thus far in most dynamic QBs careers their success has been that they are more athletically gifted then most others - it's much harder in the NFL - everyone is a great athlete at this level. This narrows the talent gap and they aren't nearly as dynamic as they were before. The key is for them to be able to overcome and outgrow this; they must develop as a passer. As an athlete, that is very challenging for many to overcome since they have to learn to do something new and not rely on their athletic gift which they have relied on their entire athletic life up to now.

 

 

In regards to Cam, he is a star player, but a good, not great QB. The Kardashians are stars(not sure why and I am not saying Cam is like them, but he is well known).

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/09/26/cam-newton-is-struggling-and-it-doesnt-appear-likely-to-get-better/?utm_term=.ee06d3fb78b9

 

One of the absolute biggest, and one that gets swept under the rug because of Newton’s obvious drop in passing stats, is their quarterback being used as a runner. On designed runs for the quarterback that weren’t kneels or sneaks in 2015, Newton averaged 5.5 yards per carry (on 74 attempts) and scored eight touchdowns. In 2016, those designed runs netted the Panthers only 4.5 yards per carry (66 attempts) and five touchdowns. In 2017, he has only four carries for seven yards through three weeks. Put simply, the Panthers aren’t running with Cam Newton any more. And when they do, defenses have caught up schematically. They are no longer surprised when Jonathan Stewart turns into a lead blocker for Newton and aren’t leaving themselves a man short to stop the run.

 

With added defenders keen on paying attention to the run, though, it should theoretically leave Newton with more room to work in the passing game. This is the part of Newton’s regression that is easy to see in the box score. His completion percentage dropped 6.9 points from 2015 (59.8) to 2016 (52.9), and his adjusted completion percentage – which adds in drops and takes out throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB was hit in his throwing motion – hasn’t fared any better. He went from 71.5 percent in 2015 to 65.4 percent, dead last in the NFL, in 2016.  

 

Somewhere in the Panthers’ organization, they made a conscious effort to address that this offseason. With so many incomplete passes, it was difficult for the Panthers to sustain drives. So they drafted underneath passing threats in Christian McCaffrey and Curtis Samuel, and Newton currently has the second-highest completion percentage of his career (61.4).  

The switch hasn’t fixed the problem, though — it’s actually made it worse. Newton’s average depth of target has dropped from 10.9 and 11.0 in 2015 and 2016 (two of the highest figures in the league) to 8.4 this year. And those underneath throws he’s now making were actually his weakest throws a season ago. In terms of true accuracy (putting the ball on a receiver’s frame), Newton was the third-most-inaccurate screen thrower, second-most-inaccurate when asked to lead a receiver horizontally across the field and second-most-inaccurate on throws one to five yards down the field in 2016. The offense now asks him to do more of that. Accuracy isn’t a static quantity, though; Newton doesn’t struggle everywhere. In fact, he was the second-most-accurate quarterback in the NFL when aiming at stationary or slowly moving receivers exploiting a hole in zone coverage down the field. 

 

Also I will do a LAMP, you look like you recently joined. If you look at what Beane looks for in a QB, Jackson does not appear to be that player...

 

 

 

 I've seen interviews where Beane has talked about his ideal quarterback. Just because I recently joined this site doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. Beane strikes me as a guy that's open to new exciting ideas, especially if they don't cost a lot of capital. I get what you're saying about a dynamic qb running an offense. It's risky, but just as many if not more pocket passers fail at this as dynamic ones do. We already have a promising and a slightly maybe probably not promising pocket passer on the roster. Why not roll the dice on one of the most electrifying college football players in recent memory and see if he can develop into a pocket passer under these players and coaching staff?

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Imagine if a 'dynamic' qb like Wilson had the offensive line and running game we do. Not saying Jackson is Wilson, but Wilson was also a 4th round pick. I'll take a risk on an unpredictable, inconsistent qb who has MVP potential. That's what Lamar is.

There is so much wrong with this...

 

1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well...

2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing.  It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there...

3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth.

4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all...

 

Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.

 

You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.

 

Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket.

Just now, 502Buffs said:

 I've seen interviews where Beane has talked about his ideal quarterback. Just because I recently joined this site doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. Beane strikes me as a guy that's open to new exciting ideas, especially if they don't cost a lot of capital. I get what you're saying about a dynamic qb running an offense. It's risky, but just as many if not more pocket passers fail at this as dynamic ones do. We already have a promising and a slightly maybe probably not promising pocket passer on the roster. Why not roll the dice on one of the most electrifying college football players in recent memory and see if he can develop into a pocket passer under these players and coaching staff?

I didn't mean to come across as ****ty btw 

[Lfod]

8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

There is so much wrong with this...

 

1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well...

2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing.  It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there...

3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth.

4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all...

 

Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.

 

You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.

 

Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket.

I didn't mean to come across as ****ty btw 

You are absolutely killing it man. Good job. 

 

I don't really know much about Lamar Jackson, but if he is just a mobile sandlot QB you definitely made a strong case that he won't be a Buffalo Bill. We definitely seen the result with Tyrod and it did trend down the longer he remained a starter. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Lfod

[502Buffs]

6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

There is so much wrong with this...

 

1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well...

2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing.  It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there...

3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth.

4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all...

 

Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.

 

You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.

 

Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket.

Anybody we draft I believe is going to be a project. Jackson is capable of doing everything you just listed. I think you're assuming he's never going to feel comfortable in throwing in the pocket. P.S. this wasn't supposed to be a post about what we think McBeane is going to do. I'll leave you all to speculate that. I just think he is the best QB in this draft and is worth our consideration at 12 or 22. While I do think we need to draft a couple offensive lineman and probably a running back, don't act like our running game sucks. Losing Glenn and Wood hurts, but we have the capital to fill the holes. Which is also why we absolutely should not trade up to draft a quarterback. If we're going to throw someone in there with a bad offensive line like you say we have, I'd rather have someone mobile who can avoid hits.

14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

There is so much wrong with this...

 

1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well...

2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing.  It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there...

3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth.

4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all...

 

Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.

 

You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.

 

Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket.

I didn't mean to come across as ****ty btw 

Hey man, you stated your case well. I can take it. I probably did over-value our O-line, we have had one of the best rushing attacks the past 2-3 years, but losing Glenn and Wood hurts a lot. Which is why I, and the article you posted about Wilson, states you're better off having a running qb in these scenarios. In the process of his development there might be some bumps in the road, but I truly believe he will get better and better as a passer as he's shown through his college career.

[Reed83HOF]

14 minutes ago, Lfod said:

You are absolutely killing it man. Good job. 

 

I don't really know much about Lamar Jackson, but if he is just a mobile sandlot QB you definitely made a strong case that he won't be a Buffalo Bill. We definitely seen the result with Tyrod and it did trend down the longer he remained a starter. 

I'm just trying to read what little tea leaves there are to try to understand what Beane looks for in a QB. I think that during his time in CAR he saw how dynamic Newton is, but I think he also saw the issues that are there as well. I figure our best chance for figuring out who we might take is to what fits his profile.

 

There is nothing that says Jackson can't be a good NFL QB and he is a helluva athlete. There is a chance we could even end up with him depending where there draft falls and what players are rated where on our board. You obviously want to feel good about how a prospect can develop and that has to factor into as well. I don't see him as a fit from his style of play, but that doesn't mean wee would ignore him or he won't be on our board. If we take him, I will root for him and hope he turns out to be awesome. If he doesn't, time to move forward...

[Reed83HOF]

16 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Anybody we draft I believe is going to be a project. Jackson is capable of doing everything you just listed. I think you're assuming he's never going to feel comfortable in throwing in the pocket. P.S. this wasn't supposed to be a post about what we think McBeane is going to do. I'll leave you all to speculate that. I just think he is the best QB in this draft and is worth our consideration at 12 or 22. While I do think we need to draft a couple offensive lineman and probably a running back, don't act like our running game sucks. Losing Glenn and Wood hurts, but we have the capital to fill the holes. Which is also why we absolutely should not trade up to draft a quarterback. If we're going to throw someone in there with a bad offensive line like you say we have, I'd rather have someone mobile who can avoid hits.

 

Hey man, you stated your case well. I can take it. I probably did over-value our O-line, we have had one of the best rushing attacks the past 2-3 years, but losing Glenn and Wood hurts a lot. Which is why I, and the article you posted about Wilson, states you're better off having a running qb in these scenarios. In the process of his development there might be some bumps in the road, but I truly believe he will get better and better as a passer as he's shown through his college career.

You are right about the OL, it worked for Tyrod - I think he had the most time in the league to pass...I think that they want to move a bit away from the sandlot football and go "more traditional"; the drafting of Peterman makes it appear that way, hell even starting him over Tyrod I think points that way. The wild card/unknown in this is, can our new offensive staff develop a QB - they are all from the college ranks as well.

 

I ragged on the running game a little bit, because once a D stopped our running game, the game was over. Also without Tyrod back there as QB, I'm not sure how teams will play us when we rush, we did lose a running threat in the QB. I think we may take a step back there. Let's face it the entire offense is in transition this year....

 

No clue what is going to happen with QB, Darnold & Rosen are the top 2 passers and Mayfield isn't too far away from them. Only Mayfield & Rosen could start right away, Darnold needs time. Allen is interesting, he is either going top 5 or sliding, but he looks to be a good guy with a high ceiling who will get a chance, his release is really fast and that arm is amazing. He also needs some time. After those guys, personally I don't like the rest of the QBs - Rudolph maybe but it's meh at that point and I would probably look at Jackson over him. If it goes that far, it feels like yet another failure to grab a QB becuase we weren't bad enough to draft in a high enough position....

 

I'm pretty direct when I talk/write so I can easily come off like an !@#$ - it is almost never meant that way

[Lfod]

11 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I'm just trying to read what little tea leaves there are to try to understand what Beane looks for in a QB. I think that during his time in CAR he saw how dynamic Newton is, but I think he also saw the issues that are there as well. I figure our best chance for figuring out who we might take is to what fits his profile.

 

There is nothing that says Jackson can't be a good NFL QB and he is a helluva athlete. There is a chance we could even end up with him depending where there draft falls and what players are rated where on our board. You obviously want to feel good about how a prospect can develop and that has to factor into as well. I don't see him as a fit from his style of play, but that doesn't mean wee would ignore him or he won't be on our board. If we take him, I will root for him and hope he turns out to be awesome. If he doesn't, time to move forward...

I was just reading through a lot of what you posted about the Mobile QB. It makes a lot of sense. Tyrod at first was leading a top scoring offense. As the years went on it seemed like those running lanes for him closed up and to resolve it they tried to mold him into a pocket passer and it just wasn't happening. Basically it confirmed what you posted was true because we all lived through it.

 

I don't know about Lamar Jackson. I don't follow college ball. I'm not sure if the mobile QB is a fair label for him or not. A person smarter then me would have to dig into his passing stats and sum it up. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

Not very accurate. Holds onto the ball too long.

 

No thank you. Just had a few years of that with Tyrod.

Also he looks unnatural in the pocket his mechanics are like a high school QB. Doesn't take chances against safeties in the seem.  He's an area code thrower makes his Wrs work very hard . Doesn't lead wrs open consistently . He's not Tyrod but he has alot of the same problems throwing the ball.  Forget about Yac again for another 3yrs with this guy.

[502Buffs]

14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

You are right about the OL, it worked for Tyrod - I think he had the most time in the league to pass...I think that they want to move a bit away from the sandlot football and go "more traditional"; the drafting of Peterman makes it appear that way, hell even starting him over Tyrod I think points that way. The wild card/unknown in this is, can our new offensive staff develop a QB - they are all from the college ranks as well.

 

I ragged on the running game a little bit, because once a D stopped our running game, the game was over. Also without Tyrod back there as QB, I'm not sure how teams will play us when we rush, we did lose a running threat in the QB. I think we may take a step back there. Let's face it the entire offense is in transition this year....

 

No clue what is going to happen with QB, Darnold & Rosen are the top 2 passers and Mayfield isn't too far away from them. Only Mayfield & Rosen could start right away, Darnold needs time. Allen is interesting, he is either going top 5 or sliding, but he looks to be a good guy with a high ceiling who will get a chance, his release is really fast and that arm is amazing. He also needs some time. After those guys, personally I don't like the rest of the QBs - Rudolph maybe but it's meh at that point and I would probably look at Jackson over him. If it goes that far, it feels like yet another failure to grab a QB becuase we weren't bad enough to draft in a high enough position....

 

I'm pretty direct when I talk/write so I can easily come off like an !@#$ - it is almost never meant that way

I can't just buy that Darnold or Rosen are a better passer than Jackson. Darnold turned the ball over way more than Jackson and Rosen also proved to be just as inconsistent and, while still mobile, is obviously much less mobile than Jackson, who has freakish ball carrier vision. Allen I haven't seen play enough to be honest, but I find it hard to believe he is worththe project. Plenty of big arm QBs have come through the draft and done nothing. He couldn't even really win in whatever conference at Wyoming. I did however watch a lot of PAC-12 football just because I wanted to see these guys play and dear God are those defenses bad. I could definitely get excited about Mayfield and would even get excited about the other guys if they slid, but I truly believe now is not a time to gamble it all on trading up for a QB. The Jets set the price too high. Let them make that gamble their roster still looks worse than ours anyway. Hell I'd even be ok with Rudolph. I just can't be convinced any of these QBs are that far apart from each other, but I think Jackson makes the most sense for our team (ran the same Eackhardt-Perkins offense Daboll ran at Bama) and has the most potential to be special.  Again, I'm a Louisville fan, I'm biased, but I wouldn't want us to take him if I didn't think it would work.

10 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I was just reading through a lot of what you posted about the Mobile QB. It makes a lot of sense. Tyrod at first was leading a top scoring offense. As the years went on it seemed like those running lanes for him closed up and to resolve it they tried to mold him into a pocket passer and it just wasn't happening. Basically it confirmed what you posted was true because we all lived through it.

 

I don't know about Lamar Jackson. I don't follow college ball. I'm not sure if the mobile QB is a fair label for him or not. A person smarter then me would have to dig into his passing stats and sum it up. 

I tried to if you read the original post, with video to back it upnot to say I'm smarter than you

Edited March 27, 2018 by 502Buffs

[Lfod]

2 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

 

I tried to if you read the original post, with video to back it up

Haha you got me. I'll go take a look and check the video out. 

[502Buffs]

6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Also he looks unnatural in the pocket his mechanics are like a high school QB. Doesn't take chances against safeties in the seem.  He's an area code thrower makes his Wrs work very hard . Doesn't lead wrs open consistently . He's not Tyrod but he has alot of the same problems throwing the ball.  Forget about Yac again for another 3yrs with this guy.

Have you watched any of his highlights? He's definitely not afraid to take chances. He just can also choose to take chances with his feet as well and is 100x better at it than Tyrod. I've said it before and I'll say it again, comparing Tyrod to Lamar is lazy, their games don't match up at all. You're free to disagree all I'm saying is check the tape.

[Lfod]

Ok I checked out the highlights and read your post. I'll start first by saying I liked his interview. The yes ma'am part part shows me I don't have to worry about Baker Mayfield style crotch grabs when it comes to respect. 

 

Did I see him smiling after that fight? Bills fans complained that no one did squat after Tre White was hit by Gronk. I wonder if Lamar Jackson would run out.....

 

I like that he has height. That was a knock on Tyrod not seeing the field because he was to short. Not sure if that was the problem but it definitely won't be an excuse with Lamar. The most dropped passes? Tyrod didn't have that problem as much because he didn't throw the ball. 

 

On a serious note, yes Lamar is going to have to live with the Tyrod/Mobile QB comparison. It may not be fair but it's going to happen. Lamar is going to have doubters but it's so much sweeter proving doubters wrong then having everyone ride your jock. It adds more fuel to your fire.

 

I really can't say much. Any rookie we draft I will probably feel the same about because I don't follow college ball. I'll just keep the hope unless they play so bad for so many games it gets annoying and I want to run and hold the door open for them on thier way out.

 

 

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 hour ago, 502Buffs said:

Have you watched any of his highlights? He's definitely not afraid to take chances. He just can also choose to take chances with his feet as well and is 100x better at it than Tyrod. I've said it before and I'll say it again, comparing Tyrod to Lamar is lazy, their games don't match up at all. You're free to disagree all I'm saying is check the tape.

Its not lazy i see him

#1 hold the ball to long way to much

#2 doesn't lead wrs consistently which leads to less yac opportunity for wrs. 

#3 He's a Area Code Passer Makes Wrs work to hard because bad ball placement.

 

These are all major issues in Tyrod and Lamar gms. 

 

Ask yourself this question strictly as a passer is Lamar worth the 12th overall pk?   

[Mat68]

39 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Its not lazy i see him

#1 hold the ball to long way to much

#2 doesn't lead wrs consistently which leads to less yac opportunity for wrs. 

#3 He's a Area Code Passer Makes Wrs work to hard because bad ball placement.

 

These are all major issues in Tyrod and Lamar gms. 

 

Ask yourself this question strictly as a passer is Lamar worth the 12th overall pk?   

If this was all true why does Jackson have about the same ypa as Rosen?  The guy with the best ball placement in the draft?  As a passer he is just as accomplished as Rosen.  When he runs hes more accomplished than Saquan Barkley.  I fail to see that as a negetive.  When you get a guy who can beat you in the pocket and the open feild there is no defense for it.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

If this was all true why does Jackson have about the same ypa as Rosen?  The guy with the best ball placement in the draft?  As a passer he is just as accomplished as Rosen.  When he runs hes more accomplished than Saquan Barkley.  I fail to see that as a negetive.  When you get a guy who can beat you in the pocket and the open feild there is no defense for it.  

U can nitpick the stats all u like he still has major deficiencies as a passer. This is just my opinion and your definitely entitled to yours . 

 

Lamar will need a Taylor ( no pun intended) made offense to succeed on the next level. U can't just put this guy into a timing based offense and expect him to succeed.  I guess it comes down to preference.  I would like a strict pocket passer that sometimes can make a play outside the offensive play design.

 

Other then Darnold i would love Mayfield he's very accurate and can make plays on the run from both sides of the field not only that but something people don't talk about much here is he gets better when pressured either via blitz or just from the natural rush. These are key elements to succeeding on the next level. Baker is the man and i hope he slips threw the cracks and we can draft him in the 6-10 range. 

[Mat68]

11 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

U can nitpick the stats all u like he still has major deficiencies as a passer. This is just my opinion and your definitely entitled to yours . 

 

Lamar will need a Taylor ( no pun intended) made offense to succeed on the next level. U can't just put this guy into a timing based offense and expect him to succeed.  I guess it comes down to preference.  I would like a strict pocket passer that sometimes can make a play outside the offensive play design.

 

Other then Darnold i would love Mayfield he's very accurate and can make plays on the run from both sides of the field not only that but something people don't talk about much here is he gets better when pressured either via blitz or just from the natural rush. These are key elements to succeeding on the next level. Baker is the man and i hope he slips threw the cracks and we can draft him in the 6-10 range. 

Petrinos offense is a pro concept passing attack.  Jackson is far more accurate that his 59% would tell you. His adjusted completion % makes the most improvement than any other qb in draft.   Imo Baker will struggle inside an NFL pocket.  When the play breaks down he wont get away from NFL defenders.  Also, Jackson does not have a video of him getting tackled by cop.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Petrinos offense is a pro concept passing attack.  Jackson is far more accurate that his 59% would tell you. His adjusted completion % makes the most improvement than any other qb in draft.   Imo Baker will struggle inside an NFL pocket.  When the play breaks down he wont get away from NFL defenders.  Also, Jackson does not have a video of him getting tackled by cop.  

Petrino system is similar to what the Bills will run but there's different variations of the Perkins Erhardt system.  Lamar is just not accurate enough for the NFL. I don't care what his adjusted comp percentage is.  He's not a natural passer . 

 

Btw Baker is incredibly accurate in and out of the pocket and I'm not basing it on stats. He passes the eye test. The ball comes out clean from his hands . Yes he's not tall but his release pt makes up for that as well as ability to throw threw lanes just like Brees and Russ.

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Petrino system is similar to what the Bills will run but there's different variations of the Perkins Erhardt system.  Lamar is just not accurate enough for the NFL. I don't care what his adjusted comp percentage is.  He's not a natural passer . 

 

Btw Baker is incredibly accurate in and out of the pocket and I'm not basing it on stats. He passes the eye test. The ball comes out clean from his hands . Yes he's not tall but his release pt makes up for that as well as ability to throw threw lanes just like Brees and Russ.

Eye test? Were you wearing your Blu Blockers when watching Jackson videos?

[502Buffs]

16 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Its not lazy i see him

#1 hold the ball to long way to much

#2 doesn't lead wrs consistently which leads to less yac opportunity for wrs. 

#3 He's a Area Code Passer Makes Wrs work to hard because bad ball placement.

 

These are all major issues in Tyrod and Lamar gms. 

 

Ask yourself this question strictly as a passer is Lamar worth the 12th overall pk?   

Strictly as a passer no. If he can't run he's definitely not even a 1st rd pick, but he can. Also I disagree with the area code passer thing, that just makes no sense. Check out his passes on Youtube, a lot of his touchdown passes are in the perfect spot right on the money. Part of a WR getting open is that you have to throw them open.

[John from Riverside]

On 3/26/2018 at 7:55 PM, BadLandsMeanie said:

 Thanks 502!

Look at the way Lamar looks like he is gonna take off....then stops before he leaves the pocket and throws a strike

 

This is where he and TT differentiate.......Taylor takes off in those situations

19 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Petrino system is similar to what the Bills will run but there's different variations of the Perkins Erhardt system.  Lamar is just not accurate enough for the NFL. I don't care what his adjusted comp percentage is.  He's not a natural passer . 

 

Btw Baker is incredibly accurate in and out of the pocket and I'm not basing it on stats. He passes the eye test. The ball comes out clean from his hands . Yes he's not tall but his release pt makes up for that as well as ability to throw threw lanes just like Brees and Russ.

This is seriously funny stuff

 

He is putting the ball right on guys and you wont come off it

[NastyNateSoldiers]

25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Look at the way Lamar looks like he is gonna take off....then stops before he leaves the pocket and throws a strike

 

This is where he and TT differentiate.......Taylor takes off in those situations

This is seriously funny stuff

 

He is putting the ball right on guys and you wont come off it

I'm not just basing my opinion on a youtube highlights film. U ever seen Ej Manuel on youtube he looks pretty good.  I actually  watch full gms on draftbreakdown. 

 

At the end of the day its all about preference i just want the QB that's best at finding open wrs consistently. Sounds simple right?  In my opinion that's Mayfield.  Not the rocket arm Allen or the if i didn't have my legs i won't be a first rd pk Jackson.  

[Pete]

This not leading with crown of helmet rule will help Lamar's chances of staying healthy his career

[502Buffs]

4 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I'm not just basing my opinion on a youtube highlights film. U ever seen Ej Manuel on youtube he looks pretty good.  I actually  watch full gms on draftbreakdown. 

 

At the end of the day its all about preference i just want the QB that's best at finding open wrs consistently. Sounds simple right?  In my opinion that's Mayfield.  Not the rocket arm Allen or the if i didn't have my legs i won't be a first rd pk Jackson.  

You just killed your argument by comparing Lamar Jackson tape to EJ Manual's. Wish some of you guys could get over stereotyping QB's, or at least not be so obvious about it. First everyone compares him to Tyrod now EJ...it makes no sense they're all completely different players. You're doing nothing but showing you don't watch any football outside of Bills games by making these comparisons which is fine, but it doesn't mean you can look at a QB  and say it won't work based off of his appearance.