aristocrat Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, KRT88 said: I said 12, 22, 53, 65 and a next years second and one guy here said BB would lose the fan base if he did that. Heck that seems cheap now. I'd do just about whatever. I'd try to not deal next years 1st as it will likely be a decent pick. Adding two years worth of 2nd's is reasonable if you give mean some lower round stuff back. 12, 22, 53, 65, 2019 & 2020 2nd's for #2, plus a 5th and 2019 4th. I want to raft the QB. right or wrong, I'm standing behind the decision to take a shot! I’ve been saying 3 ones and 2 twos just to get myself ready and if it’s less I’m glad to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Who else can offer anything like that? I was thinking about putting this is a new thread but can anyone design a trade for another team to get to 2 that beats that offer using the Rich Hill hill chart? Who else can pay the 146.51 points that the Bills would give with 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 2nd next year? Nearly any team can beat that, or do a hell of a job trying. If you're the Giants do you take that offer from the Bills, or the 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 first rounders from some team? I take the firsts. Edited March 21, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Nearly any team can beat that, or do a hell of a job trying. If you're the Giants do you take that offer from the Bills, or the 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 first rounders from some team? I take the firsts. Find me the last team to trade 4 consecutive 1sts...I’ll wait....each year that you wait for a pick gets knocked down a round...fwiw, that draft would probably have a lower point value (but I too would take it). The point was, what realistic scenario can be done? Take the actual picks that a team has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Find me the last team to trade 4 consecutive 1sts...I’ll wait....each year that you wait for a pick gets knocked down a round...fwiw, that draft would probably have a lower point value (but I too would take it). The point was, what realistic scenario can be done? Take the actual picks that a team has. It is realistic, Kirby. Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it won't happen now. If a team wants it bad enough, they could do something like that. Not saying it will happen. But it could. You can't rule it out. Did anyone think the Jets would make that kind of an offer with so many future picks? If I were the Bills bidding against the Cards, and the situations were reversed, I wouldn't mind a bit if the Bills made that kind of an offer. They'd better be right about the guy, of course. Edited March 21, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, gobills1212 said: Yup! I totally get why people would rather stay and take Jackson or Rudolph though - and that's respectable. It is a lot, but circumstances allow. What I dont get though, is the group that wants to draft to fill non qb holes. Build a quality roster and continue to patch the qb position. Not a way to sustain success... which seems to be the goal of the other two groups EVEN if they disagree about trading up or standing pat for a qb. Very few are looking to just patch the QB position, they are just willing to settle on the 4th-6th rated QB in this draft without having to move down None of the QBs in this draft are quaranteed franchise guys, yet theres a very large group here that are willing to give up picks as if they were. McCarron and say Jackson or Rudolph going into next year as starters plus another 3-5 rookies in the first 3 rounds at other positions of need should give the Bills a chance at much more improved Team over Taking one of the top 3 Qbs and not much else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said: It is realistic, Kirby. Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it won't happen now. If a team wants it bad enough, they could do something like that. Not saying it will happen. But it could. If I were the Bills bidding against the Cards, and the situations were reversed, I wouldn't mind a bit if the Bills made that kind of an offer. They'd better be right about the guy, of course. No team has ever given up 12 straight first rounders either. Is that realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Nearly any team can beat that, or do a hell of a job trying. If you're the Giants do you take that offer from the Bills, or the 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 first rounders from some team? I take the firsts. Not allowed. NFL rules state you can only trade draft assets a maximum of two years ahead. So the maximum number of 1sts any team not name the Buffalo Bills (or Browns but they are not at play here) can offer is 3. 2018, 2019 and 2020. The Bills 2x 2018 1sts and 1x 2019 1st already has that beat. The best offer the Giants can get is from Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not allowed. NFL rules state you can only trade draft assets a maximum of two years ahead. So the maximum number of 1sts any team not name the Buffalo Bills (or Browns but they are not at play here) can offer is 3. 2018, 2019 and 2020. The Bills 2x 2018 1sts and 1x 2019 1st already has that beat. The best offer the Giants can get is from Buffalo. Learned something new today, thanks GB!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven50 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) All this speculation is fun I guess but if Giants take a QB (and with Eli's age they should) then that is three that will be off the board regardless of what the bills do. The odds that whomever is left is the Bills guy is slim to none. Edited March 21, 2018 by steven50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: No team has ever given up 12 straight first rounders either. Is that realistic? Great, you've established that among things that have never happened before, there are some situations are realistic and others aren't. Nice. Did any team make a deal like the Jets did? Was that realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) My best guess is 12,22,56,65 2019 1st rd pick. Maybe flip our 5th rder for their 4th. Imo 3 1s will be the price and thats an offer NYG cant say no to that. Its hefty and substantial. Beane is going to take his time deciding is there qb at 2 better than 1 at 4 or 6 plus considering the price moving to 2, 4, 6 plus. With the blantant disregard for the FA class they need to make splash and go get a Qb. Edited March 21, 2018 by Mat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Very few are looking to just patch the QB position, they are just willing to settle on the 4th-6th rated QB in this draft without having to move down None of the QBs in this draft are quaranteed franchise guys, yet theres a very large group here that are willing to give up picks as if they were. McCarron and say Jackson or Rudolph going into next year as starters plus another 3-5 rookies in the first 3 rounds at other positions of need should give the Bills a chance at much more improved Team over Taking one of the top 3 Qbs and not much else. Ya, no I get it - and that's a very good summary. That 3rd group I mentioned seems generally the trade for Foles or all set w McCarron type.. a bit of catch all in that regard if you will.. I'm not sure if it was intentional as you just skimmed it - but the guaranteed FQB via the draft part IMO hits the nail on the head. For many, it's as simple as a safe high odds option as they dont feel comfortable with a bust or whammy somewhere in the bunch. If this were a normal year I'd like to think that I'd think 3x 1st rd picks was crazy. The fact it is, this ammo(2 picks in meaningful rds) offers a unique chance. One we havent seen the likes of in a long time. A chance at a top talent in a good draft. By nature that divides people. Some take the high probability route, some the boom or bust. The fact that so many years have seemed like the 'safe' route was taken and there is such an obvious fork in the road - the gotta be in it to win it mentality takes over and the prospect of something special. Very unique times around here for sure! Edited March 21, 2018 by gobills1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 It's a bad assumption that the Giants will just take the Bills up on their best offer. Even if we offer something better than any other team realistically could they can ask for more. I'm sure they'd be content to keep #2 if it came down to it. I wish I knew their price, it's an interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Great, you've established that among things that have never happened before, there are some situations are realistic and others aren't. Nice. Did any team make a deal like the Jets did? Was that realistic? Sure, the Eagles did for Wentz, the Skins for RG3, etc... That’s why I asked what packages a team could put together to trump 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year’s 2nd? It’s 156% premium according to the chart. Who can do that (this question is for anybody)? Just now, HappyDays said: It's a bad assumption that the Giants will just take the Bills up on their best offer. Even if we offer something better than any other team realistically could they can ask for more. I'm sure they'd be content to keep #2 if it came down to it. I wish I knew their price, it's an interesting discussion. They certainly can (and may) keep 2. I think that it comes down to if they are going to go QB or not. If they want QB they stay. If they are thinking anything else I think that they have to take the picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: It's a bad assumption that the Giants will just take the Bills up on their best offer. Even if we offer something better than any other team realistically could they can ask for more. I'm sure they'd be content to keep #2 if it came down to it. I wish I knew their price, it's an interesting discussion. Theres always a price - but realistically i think it has a lot to do with how seriously the Gmen take moving down. If not very, a deal might never even have a chance to get off the ground. Ya gotta do your due dillagence and inquire from either side... but if they want a deal done- hopefully it gets done. If they dont- it'll be difficult. People will tell you what either side will do... but in the end only 2 people know what's up. You are quite right - being a fly in the room would be very entertaining. Edited March 21, 2018 by gobills1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not allowed. NFL rules state you can only trade draft assets a maximum of two years ahead. So the maximum number of 1sts any team not name the Buffalo Bills (or Browns but they are not at play here) can offer is 3. 2018, 2019 and 2020. The Bills 2x 2018 1sts and 1x 2019 1st already has that beat. The best offer the Giants can get is from Buffalo. Very interesting. Thank you. But you overstate what we've learned. The Cards can offer the 2018, 2019 and 2020 firsts and all three 2nds as well. I take that over the Bills offer. The point is, this isn't a gimme. It's not like, well, the Bills already have this in hand. They have a big advantage. But not an advantage that's impregnable. Teams could also offer players, of course, including some very good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Not allowed. NFL rules state you can only trade draft assets a maximum of two years ahead. So the maximum number of 1sts any team not name the Buffalo Bills (or Browns but they are not at play here) can offer is 3. 2018, 2019 and 2020. The Bills 2x 2018 1sts and 1x 2019 1st already has that beat. The best offer the Giants can get is from Buffalo. Not necessarily, unless your just going by the round. A team in the top 10 this year may be able to put something together that the Giants deem to be a better offer cause they can move down and stay in the top 10. Some make look at this years draft and say that the quality of player available at 22 could compare similar to what they could get in the top half of the 2nd round so even though the pick is in round 1, it may not be all that much more desirable then a 2nd rounder in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Very interesting. Thank you. But you overstate what we've learned. The Cards can offer the 2018, 2019 and 2020 firsts and all three 2nds as well. I take that over the Bills offer. The point is, this isn't a gimme. It's not like, well, the Bills already have this in hand. They have a big advantage. But not an advantage that's impregnable. Teams could also offer players, of course, including some very good ones. There is no team who can beat the hand the Bills have to play is the point. If the Billls choose not to play all their cards and some other team pushes the chips into the middle of the table and goes all in then of course the Bills could lose out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 It's not impossible for a team to offer more than the Bills. The Broncos can offer pick #5 and a bunch of other picks. That's what happened with the Jets. Don't count out other teams in the top 10. The Jets could even do it themselves to lock everyone else out. Anything can happen when you're talking about a QB class this well regarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Not necessarily, unless your just going by the round. A team in the top 10 this year may be able to put something together that the Giants deem to be a better offer cause they can move down and stay in the top 10. Some make look at this years draft and say that the quality of player available at 22 could compare similar to what they could get in the top half of the 2nd round so even though the pick is in round 1, it may not be all that much more desirable then a 2nd rounder in the top 10. I am going by value on whatever chart you prefer. Of course it is true that Denver (probably the only one in play) could get to #2 because the Giants value still being in Barkley and Nelson territory above having extra assets in the future. My point isn't that the Bills offer is bound to be their preferred one... just that value terms by any chart the Bills max possible offer beats any other max possible offer (except Cleveland). Edited March 21, 2018 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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