Matt Harmon: Best Tight-Window Passers of 2017

[26CornerBlitz]

50 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

A whole 3 and the year before that another whole 3.  going back in time: 14, 17, and 20 !   

 

FYI  in 2016 the average number of passing TD's was 22.4, TT threw 17.     

 

Give me 25 to 30 passing TDs a season and I'll stop saying TT isn't a passing QB. 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  cough  cough  cough  hahahahahahha 

 

CopyPaste has hated Peterman before he played one game for the Bills, and he had the audacity to throw out that crap?    

 

What a stupid thing for 26 to say.  

 

Looks like 26CP is having another fit

 

    

 

On 2/12/2018 at 10:35 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You add nothing to this board and the PM from BuffaloBill  that was to both of us was necessary because you continued to quote my posts even though you claim to have me on ignore just as you have done in this and other threads.   You have a funny way of ignoring someone. The real issue is you have an axe to grind because I have never supported Peterman and laughed at your strange and undying devotion to him.  

 

Thanks for proving my point yet again. Still pathetic. 

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I got a number for you. 

 

Defense lets up 10 points or less this year. 

 

TT 0-2

 

Regress. Just over 1 TD again (includes alot of get fat off bad teams) 200 yards a game 

 

0-2 in 2017 when Defense gives up 10 or less points

 

how much regression do you really think you will see from any QB compared to TT

In terms of yards and making big plays, there would be no regression from TT as he fails to do that consistently. 

 

In terms of wins and losses? 

 

There certainly can be regression as TT doesn't throw many games away. (As someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick did, or as we saw this year with Nate Peterman the one game)

[TheFunPolice]

We're still having this argument about Tyrod? Really?

 

Woods, Watkins and Goodwin were all here and he still would not throw the damn ball. All 3 are gone now making plays for their new teams, suddenly they are open and valuable. It's odd. It's almost like the QB won't or can't make routine throws on a consistent basis.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

We're still having this argument about Tyrod? Really?

 

Woods, Watkins and Goodwin were all here and he still would not throw the damn ball. All 3 are gone now making plays for their new teams, suddenly they are open and valuable. It's odd. It's almost like the QB won't or can't make routine throws on a consistent basis.

 

Won't is more oft than can't.   He's made some really good deep throws  while scrambling 

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

In terms of yards and making big plays, there would be no regression from TT as he fails to do that consistently. 

 

In terms of wins and losses? 

 

There certainly can be regression as TT doesn't throw many games away. (As someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick did, or as we saw this year with Nate Peterman the one game)

 

So there would be no regression in actual QB play. 

 

Aside from some Maybe the new QB throws more picks in a league were picks are way down all over the league 

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So there would be no regression in actual QB play. 

 

Aside from some Maybe the new QB throws more picks in a league were picks are way down all over the league 

Well my point was there would be more interceptions which would result in less wins.

 

Taking care of the football is a big part of the quarterbacks job.

 

Its no good if you throw for 300 yards every game but have 2 to 3 interceptions. As we well know watching Fitzpatrick for years lol

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Well my point was there would be more interceptions which would result in less wins.

 

Taking care of the football is a big part of the quarterbacks job.

 

Its no good if you throw for 300 yards every game but have 2 to 3 interceptions. As we well know watching Fitzpatrick for years lol

 

OR there would be double the TD passes which could lead to 2 or 3 more wins. 

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

OR there would be double the TD passes which could lead to 2 or 3 more wins. 

Interceptions are way more of a killer than TD passes. Even if what you are saying is true, if someone throws 28 TD passes and 16-20 INTS, that's going to do no good

 

 

 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Interceptions are way more of a killer than TD passes. Even if what you are saying is true, if someone throws 28 TD passes and 16-20 INTS, that's going to do no good

 

14 over 4  or 30 over 10 -  I'll take the 30 over 10.  

 

Russel Wilson	34 and 11
Matt Stafford	29 and 10
Phil Rivers	28 and 10
Big  Ben	28 and 14
Kirk Cousins	27 and 13
Carson Wentz	33 and 7
Jared Goff	28 and 7
Alex Smith	26 and 5

[26CornerBlitz]

12 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Interceptions are way more of a killer than TD passes. Even if what you are saying is true, if someone throws 28 TD passes and 16-20 INTS, that's going to do no good

 

Save your keystrokes for a better purpose. 

[BillsFan130]

8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

14 over 4  or 30 over 10 -  I'll take the 30 over 10.  

 

Russel Wilson	34 and 11
Matt Stafford	29 and 10
Phil Rivers	28 and 10
Big  Ben	28 and 14
Kirk Cousins	27 and 13
Carson Wentz	33 and 7
Jared Goff	28 and 7
Alex Smith	26 and 5

Lol who wouldn’t?...

 

You’re saying a rookie QB or a bridge vet QB comes in next year and throws 30 and 10?...

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Lol who wouldn’t?...

 

You’re saying a rookie QB or a bridge vet QB comes in next year and throws 30 and 10?...

Exactly 1 QB on that list hit 30+ and 10 or less.

[BillsFan130]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Exactly 1 QB on that list hit 30+ and 10 or less.

His quote was something along the lines of “I’ll talk 30 over 10 rather than 14 over 4”.

 

I was responding to his quote 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

His quote was something along the lines of “I’ll talk 30 over 10 rather than 14 over 4”.

 

I was responding to his quote 

Oh I know. Just ironic that literally 2 QBs met that criteria. And only 1 did if you also consider lost fumbles.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Lol who wouldn’t?...

 

You’re saying a rookie QB or a bridge vet QB comes in next year and throws 30 and 10?...

umm  I thought the topic was an "actual" QB. 

 

TT couldn't even give us the league average of 22 TD's per season.    Give me anything between 25 and 7  up to  30 and 10.  

 

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RATE	YDS/G
9	Russell Wilson	SEA	339	553	61.3	3983	7.2	74	34	11	43	95.4	249
19	Carson Wentz	PHI	265	440	60.2	3296	7.49	72	33	7	28	101.9	254
1	Tom Brady	NE	385	581	66.3	4577	7.88	64	32	8	35	102.8	286
3	Matthew Stafford	DET	371	565	65.7	4446	7.87	71	29	10	47	99.3	278
5	Ben Roethlisberger	PIT	360	561	64.2	4251	7.58	97	28	14	21	93.4	283
2	Philip Rivers	LAC	360	575	62.6	4515	7.85	75	28	10	18	96	282
10	Jared Goff	LAR	296	477	62.1	3804	7.98	94	28	7	25	100.5	254
7	Kirk Cousins	WSH	347	540	64.3	4093	7.58	74	27	13	41	93.9	256
8	Alex Smith	KC	341	505	67.5	4042	8	79	26	5	35	104.7	269
17	Andy Dalton	CIN	297	496	59.9	3320	6.69	77	25	12	39	86.6	208
4	Drew Brees	NO	386	536	72	4334	8.09	54	23	8	20	103.9	271
18	Cam Newton	CAR	291	492	59.1	3302	6.71	64	22	16	35	80.7	206
14	Derek Carr	OAK	323	515	62.7	3496	6.79	87	22	13	20	86.4	233
16	Dak Prescott	DAL	308	490	62.9	3324	6.78	81	22	13	32	86.6	208
12	Case Keenum	MIN	325	481	67.6	3547	7.37	65	22	7	22	98.3	236
11	Blake Bortles	JAX	315	523	60.2	3687	7.05	75	21	13	24	84.7	230
6	Matt Ryan	ATL	342	529	64.7	4095	7.74	88	20	12	24	91.4	256
26	Jay Cutler	MIA	266	429	62	2666	6.21	65	19	14	20	80.8	190
15	Eli Manning	NYG	352	571	61.6	3468	6.07	77	19	13	31	80.4	231
13	Jameis Winston	TB	282	442	63.8	3504	7.93	70	19	11	33	92.2	270
31	Deshaun Watson	HOU	126	204	61.8	1699	8.33	72	19	8	19	103	243
21	Joe Flacco	BAL	352	549	64.1	3141	5.72	66	18	13	27	80.4	196
23	Josh McCown	NYJ	267	397	67.3	2926	7.37	69	18	9	39	94.5	225
32	Aaron Rodgers	GB	154	238	64.7	1675	7.04	72	16	6	22	97.2	239
25	Tyrod Taylor	BUF	263	420	62.6	2799	6.66	47	14	4	46	89.2	187
20	Marcus Mariota	TEN	281	453	62	3232	7.14	75	13	15	27	79.3	215
22	Jacoby Brissett	IND	276	469	58.8	3098	6.61	80	13	7	52	81.7	194
27	Trevor Siemian	DEN	206	349	59	2285	6.55	44	12	14	33	73.3	208
24	DeShone Kizer	CLE	255	476	53.6	2894	6.08	56	11	22	38	60.5	193
28	Mitchell Trubisky	CHI	196	330	59.4	2193	6.65	70	7	7	31	77.5	183
29	Carson Palmer	ARI	164	267	61.4	1978	7.41	46	9	7	22	84.4	283
30	Brett Hundley	GB	192	316	60.8	1836	5.81	55	9	12	29	70.6	167

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[BillsFan130]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

umm  I thought the topic was an "actual" QB. 

 

TT couldn't even give us the league average of 22 TD's per season.    Give me 30 and 10.  

No the topic in which I was originally replying too was there can be a regression from TT if the Bills start a rookie or a bridge vet next year.

 

Not saying the Bills shouldn’t draft a rookie QBas I definitely want them too. But don’t expect an automatic improvement in 1 year.

 

Im not sure why you are stuck on this 30 and 10 argument. No QB on the Bills next year is going to come close to that.

 

Obviously anyone would take 30 and 10.... A 30 TD to 10 INT ratio is a borderline MVP candidate.....

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

Well my point was there would be more interceptions which would result in less wins.

 

Taking care of the football is a big part of the quarterbacks job.

 

Its no good if you throw for 300 yards every game but have 2 to 3 interceptions. As we well know watching Fitzpatrick for years lol

 

And that is a given that the QB will give 2-3 every game?  Even though all stats point to INT being down every year league wide?  

 

Also the turnovers are really overblown here. You know how many games we won the TO differential and lost the game? 

 

At some point being so RISK adverse hurts just as much as a TO

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And that is a given that the QB will give 2-3 every game?  Even though all stats point to INT being down every year league wide?  

 

Also the turnovers are really overblown here. You know how many games we won the TO differential and lost the game? 

 

At some point being so RISK adverse hurts just as much as a TO

Nope it’s not a given.

 

But I would wager a lot that a rookie QB or a QB like Mccown will throw easy into double digits INTs next year if on the Bills.

 

Turnovers are not over blown in my opinion. They were the main reason why the Bills got into the playoffs.

 

Denver, ATL, TB, Oak. Those are 4 games where the Bills won because of protecting the ball and forcing turnovers on the defensive side

 

 

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

Nope it’s not a given.

 

But I would wager a lot that a rookie QB or a QB like Mccown will throw easy into double digits INTs next year if on the Bills.

 

Turnovers are not over blown in my opinion. They were the main reason why the Bills got into the playoffs.

 

Denver, ATL, TB, Oak. Those are 4 games where the Bills won because of protecting the ball and forcing turnovers on the defensive side

 

 

 

No they were not. Go to those games that you mentioned and tell me again how many points occured off thos TOs. What about the games we won the TO diff and lost the game. 

 

The team will be where it is now 8-8 plus or minus a couple games with any type avg QB play

[BillsFan130]

11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

No they were not. Go to those games that you mentioned and tell me again how many points occured off thos TOs. What about the games we won the TO diff and lost the game. 

 

The team will be where it is now 8-8 plus or minus a couple games with any type avg QB play

Seriously? Lol. Against Atlanta they got a defensive TD and they won by 4 points. They had 3 turnovers that game that lead to 10 to 13 points. Easily the difference in the game.

 

Against Denver they got 3 turnovers which resulted in 6 points and took off points off the board for the Broncos.

 

TB they literally won the game off a fumble that set up the game winning kick.

 

Oaklsnd they got 4 turnovers and one was a defensive TD.

 

You’re actually saying the Bills win at least 2 of those games without those turnovers/not turning the ball over?

 

Not a chance in hell 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 takeaways by the Bills and 3 to 9 points in each occurrence is not a lot to boast about in all honesty.  

 

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

3 takeaways by the Bills and 3 to 9 points in each occurrence is not a lot to boast about in all honesty.  

 

I’m not boasting at all about the offence.

 

Im saying turnovers are huge in games and was the difference in 3 to 4 bills wins this year

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

14 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I’m not boasting at all about the offence.

 

Im saying turnovers are huge in games and was the difference in 3 to 4 bills wins this year

More of a generic comment than directly to you.  

 

Also how many turnovers in the Bengals game that the Bills lost by 4 points.     

I believe the answer is 3.  

Bills scoring    1 TD and 3 FGs 

 

Based on these conversations the defense saved a number of games and as a result make TT “look better”

 

(which BTW was something I predicted)

 

A better defense will make TT (or any QB) look better.  

Edited February 15, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[BillsFan130]

33 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

More of a generic comment than directly to you.  

 

Also how many turnovers in the Bengals game that the Bills lost by 4 points.     

I believe the answer is 3.  

Bills scoring    1 TD and 3 FGs 

 

Based on these conversations the defense saved a number of games and as a result make TT “look better”

 

(which BTW was something I predicted)

 

A better defense will make TT (or any QB) look better.  

There offence was pitiful last year.

 

Im in agreement with you there 

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

Seriously? Lol. Against Atlanta they got a defensive TD and they won by 4 points. They had 3 turnovers that game that lead to 10 to 13 points. Easily the difference in the game.

 

Against Denver they got 3 turnovers which resulted in 6 points and took off points off the board for the Broncos.

 

TB they literally won the game off a fumble that set up the game winning kick.

 

Oaklsnd they got 4 turnovers and one was a defensive TD.

 

You’re actually saying the Bills win at least 2 of those games without those turnovers/not turning the ball over?

 

Not a chance in hell 

100%. I cant believe he’s arguing the TO differential we had wasn’t a direct impact in the season. Honestly... it’s really the only thing the team did really well. They took the ball away and didn’t turn it over and it won them games. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

100%. I cant believe he’s arguing the TO differential we had wasn’t a direct impact in the season. Honestly... it’s really the only thing the team did really well. They took the ball away and didn’t turn it over and it won them games. 

 

Want to read what I REALLY said that the lack of TOs from Tyrod really get overblown. 

 

And that TO differential get way more weight than they should around here. 

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

100%. I cant believe he’s arguing the TO differential we had wasn’t a direct impact in the season. Honestly... it’s really the only thing the team did really well. They took the ball away and didn’t turn it over and it won them games. 

Exactly. They are a  5 to 6 win team last year  without all those turnovers

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And that is a given that the QB will give 2-3 every game?  Even though all stats point to INT being down every year league wide?  

 

Also the turnovers are really overblown here. You know how many games we won the TO differential and lost the game? 

 

At some point being so RISK adverse hurts just as much as a TO

 

Here is what i said 

 

and yes i dont count Defensive TDs because that has ABSOLUTELY Nothing to do with TT. 

 

Would the defense not get those same points if Peterman was the QB at that point in time?

Edited February 15, 2018 by MAJBobby

[WideRightRevenge]

22 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No player is boiled down to a game or two when he's been starter over the course of three seasons. But have at it. 

 

26 .. please look at QBR over the last 3 years for TT ... not cherry picking there ... the numbers speak for themselves.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 minutes ago, WideRightRevenge said:

 

26 .. please look at QBR over the last 3 years for TT ... not cherry picking there ... the numbers speak for themselves.

Another irony.....   

 

TT has been lauded for having 2 or 3 spectacular games per season over 3 seasons....   And the "haters" are supposed to accept that and say he's a real good QB.  

Lets view this like an Olympic event ....   Toss out the 2 worst and 2 best games  per season.   What is the resulting "score"?  

Mediocre at best 

[26CornerBlitz]

24 minutes ago, WideRightRevenge said:

 

26 .. please look at QBR over the last 3 years for TT ... not cherry picking there ... the numbers speak for themselves.

 

He's a limited, but serviceable starting QB at the NFL level.  That's what the numbers say and that shouldn't be a revelation to anyone.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's a limited, but serviceable starting QB at the NFL level.  That's what the numbers say and that shouldn't be a revelation to anyone.

he is not serviceable.  this offseason will prove  it.  He will not be an opening day starter for anyone next year . 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, baskingridgebillsfan said:

he is not serviceable.  this offseason will prove  it.  He will not be an opening day starter for anyone next year . 

 

We differ on this and we'll see what happens. 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

18 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Lol who wouldn’t?...

 

You’re saying a rookie QB or a bridge vet QB comes in next year and throws 30 and 10?...

nobody is saying that but a rooking for one of the available vets will be an upgrade over Taylor.  

[BillsFan130]

9 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

nobody is saying that but a rooking for one of the available vets will be an upgrade over Taylor.  

I'm not too sure about that.

 

More Tds and more big plays? I would say for sure.

 

More mistakes and more turnovers? I would also say for sure as well.

 

So it depends on what that balance is

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

I'm not too sure about that.

 

More Tds and more big plays? I would say for sure.

 

More mistakes and more turnovers? I would also say for sure as well.

 

So it depends on what that balance is

Balance is key all around.  

 

Not only run to pass but a reliable pass and run game so that when one faultes you can use the other successfully.  

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Balance is key all around.  

 

Not only run to pass but a reliable pass and run game so that when one faultes you can use the other successfully.  

Agreed sir

[26CornerBlitz]

Matt Harmon explains "Tight Window" Throws.

 

[Luka]

On 2/9/2018 at 2:53 PM, Augie said:

 

Are the stats for all receivers, or just the ones he decides to throw to??? 

 

HA exactly.

[grb]

56 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

HA exactly.

 

This whole "tight windows throw" thing is just another example how some people's brains shut down when it comes to Taylor. So let's see if we can get this straight : He is pretty damn good throwing into "tight windows" per the article quoted, but the response is he won't attempt the throws. People won't stand for any excuses - say, team management dumping Hogan, Goodwin, Watkins, Woods, Gillislee, etc. Nope; the problem is Taylor refuses to pull the trigger. It's just another one of those crippling flaws which disqualify him from starting in the league

 

Isn't it hilarious? You see crap like that over and over in the comments above. Well, let's look at the numbers :

• Per the article, the average percent of tight windows throws is 18.6.
• Per the article, Taylor averaged 15.0

And what does that mean? That means maybe once per game Taylor didn't attempt a tight throw as compared to NFL average. Maybe once every other game he didn't complete a pass. That's not even considering the mess he's had at receiver these past two years, regardless of whether you think the separation stat is legit or not. That's just taking the numbers at face value.

 

We've seen the same nonsense with "middle throws" or that tired old platitude "throwing with anticipation". People take some spoon-fed cliche and three things happen :

• First, they suddenly don't see Taylor throwing over the middle, leading a receiver or threading a needle. With the cliche in their heads, that stuff becomes invisible
• Second, they don't seem to realize even if these things are a relative weakness in Taylor's game, it's by thin margins. They don't realize this because :
• They're too busy wailing in hysterical panic, tearing their hair out by the fistful, sobbing in anguished grief. Cliches have a terrible effect on some people's ability to think.