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This Michigan State stuff is crazy


YoloinOhio

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10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Emmert has to go. The ncaa is a joke.They spend all this time and money making sure the schools comply with its archaic rulebook. What is it doing to make sure the schools are complying with federal law?

The NCAA is a hollow encrusted bureaucratic organization that for the now should stay out of this sick episode that mercifully ended because of the action of these brave young women. They paid a horrible price but in the end their courage and persistence brought this evil enterprise to an end.  What needs to happen now is a comprehensive investigation of everything that happened. All the parties involved from the police who took the reports, the people who received complaints, administrators, board members, everyone, from top to bottom, should be held accountable. There involved in this multi-layer of silence and complicity have to be held accountable. This evil doctor thrived in this cesspool of silence. The oxygen that allowed him and his evil kind to exist was silence. 

 

Whether it is the church, military, schools, corporate world when there is a complaint related to sexual assault it should be handled outside of where it occurred and treated as a police matter. That's how you put a stop to it. And one way of forcing those in authority to take action is to hold them accountable for what goes on underneath them. In that way you are forcing them to stay engaged and not have the excuse of "I didn't know" when it is your job to know what is going on.  

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I’ve always thought Dantonio was a good coach and a good man. Unfortunately, I find it hard to believe that he didn’t know about any of the sexual assault claims with his players prior to the ones that came up last summer, like he says. The whole thing seems like a giant, penn state level cover up. 

 

The E:60 episode is very well done - it’s hard to see how he and Izzo survive this.

Edited by YoloinOhio
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11 minutes ago, row_33 said:

It’s not archaic to stop sexual assault and felonies on campus. 

 

 

That’s my point. They are so worried about archaic stuff like whether someone bought a pizza for a kid on a recruiting trip (the horror!) or a kid gets paid off his own likeness (why shouldn’t he?) and ignore sexual assault claims. Where is the accountability on the part of the ncaa?? If the Nassar stuff hadn’t happened would the ncaa have ever investigated MSU? 

Edited by YoloinOhio
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15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Emmert has to go. The ncaa is a joke.They spend all this time and money making sure the schools comply with its archaic rulebook. What is it doing to make sure the schools are complying with federal law?

The only people who disagree with this seem to be those who are somehow engaged with the system.....can you say careers?

 

 Nobody "circles the wagons" like the institution that is the NCAA trying to protect the NCAA. That may be a bit hyperbolic, the Federal Gov and many other huge institution always work hard to save the patient and not necassarrily what most reasonable people would think is right.

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7 hours ago, JohnC said:

The NCAA is a hollow encrusted bureaucratic organization that for the now should stay out of this sick episode that mercifully ended because of the action of these brave young women. They paid a horrible price but in the end their courage and persistence brought this evil enterprise to an end.  What needs to happen now is a comprehensive investigation of everything that happened. All the parties involved from the police who took the reports, the people who received complaints, administrators, board members, everyone, from top to bottom, should be held accountable. There involved in this multi-layer of silence and complicity have to be held accountable. This evil doctor thrived in this cesspool of silence. The oxygen that allowed him and his evil kind to exist was silence. 

 

Whether it is the church, military, schools, corporate world when there is a complaint related to sexual assault it should be handled outside of where it occurred and treated as a police matter. That's how you put a stop to it. And one way of forcing those in authority to take action is to hold them accountable for what goes on underneath them. In that way you are forcing them to stay engaged and not have the excuse of "I didn't know" when it is your job to know what is going on.  

 

Wow. 

 

For once, I agree with you completely.

 

Also quite impressed by your eloquence.  "The oxygen that allowed him and his evil kind to exist was silence",  nice.

 

I'm out of "likes" for today

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan
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8 hours ago, JohnC said:

The NCAA is a hollow encrusted bureaucratic organization that for the now should stay out of this sick episode that mercifully ended because of the action of these brave young women. They paid a horrible price but in the end their courage and persistence brought this evil enterprise to an end.  What needs to happen now is a comprehensive investigation of everything that happened. All the parties involved from the police who took the reports, the people who received complaints, administrators, board members, everyone, from top to bottom, should be held accountable. There involved in this multi-layer of silence and complicity have to be held accountable. This evil doctor thrived in this cesspool of silence. The oxygen that allowed him and his evil kind to exist was silence. 

 

Whether it is the church, military, schools, corporate world when there is a complaint related to sexual assault it should be handled outside of where it occurred and treated as a police matter. That's how you put a stop to it. And one way of forcing those in authority to take action is to hold them accountable for what goes on underneath them. In that way you are forcing them to stay engaged and not have the excuse of "I didn't know" when it is your job to know what is going on.  

 

The university industrial complex has declared itself fully able to handle criminal assault accusations by deans and strudent star chambers.

 

they know the police are always against the victim.....

 

 

 

 

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On ‎01‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:04 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Emmert has to go. The ncaa is a joke.They spend all this time and money making sure the schools comply with its archaic rulebook. What is it doing to make sure the schools are complying with federal law?

I'm pretty sure it's the government's job to make sure schools comply with federal law.  The last time I checked, the NCAA wasn't an enforcement arm of the federal government.

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The only way these schools are going to take this seriously is to institute a system wide, ultra strict policy (right now each school makes their own rules on how to investigate) and any non-compliance is an automatic death penalty, ZERO scholarships for ALL mens athletics for 5 years.  Any subsequent violations doubles the duration.  Let them start losing millions in revenue and see if that gets there attention.

 

2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

I'm pretty sure it's the government's job to make sure schools comply with federal law.  The last time I checked, the NCAA wasn't an enforcement arm of the federal government.

 

You are correct but as the system is currently constructed, each institution sets their own rules on how to investigate.  I heard a stat this morning that 20% of schools have the athletic department investigate allegations against athletes.  If this is what these schools think is a fair and impartial methodology, just imagine what kind of education they are providing your children.

 

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25 minutes ago, CritMark said:

The only way these schools are going to take this seriously is to institute a system wide, ultra strict policy (right now each school makes their own rules on how to investigate) and any non-compliance is an automatic death penalty, ZERO scholarships for ALL mens athletics for 5 years.  Any subsequent violations doubles the duration.  Let them start losing millions in revenue and see if that gets there attention.

 

 

You are correct but as the system is currently constructed, each institution sets their own rules on how to investigate.  I heard a stat this morning that 20% of schools have the athletic department investigate allegations against athletes.  If this is what these schools think is a fair and impartial methodology, just imagine what kind of education they are providing your children.

 

 

It's no secret how bad it is for people who want to go to school to actually study and live a decent life.

 

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6 hours ago, row_33 said:

Pure intuition and a bit of reading tells me the football program did what it shoulda and kicked out bad guys, but the hoops program?   Yikes....

 

 

 

 

My sense is similar to yours but I draw a slightly different conclusion.  Is just kicking out the bad guys enough?  Should they have worked more diligently to see that the player was charged instead of just shipping the player off to another school where he is free to repeat his offenses?  Accepting that the football program can not charge them, their active and vocal participation in the process sends a completely different message than just kicking them off the team.

 

I have a daughter who went to college and subsequently grad school and fortunately did not experience any violence against her.   But as a father I am telling you if the response from the program that the offender played for was "We kicked him off the team" I would want their head, forget about their job.

 

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24 minutes ago, CritMark said:

 

My sense is similar to yours but I draw a slightly different conclusion.  Is just kicking out the bad guys enough?  Should they have worked more diligently to see that the player was charged instead of just shipping the player off to another school where he is free to repeat his offenses?  Accepting that the football program can not charge them, their active and vocal participation in the process sends a completely different message than just kicking them off the team.

 

I have a daughter who went to college and subsequently grad school and fortunately did not experience any violence against her.   But as a father I am telling you if the response from the program that the offender played for was "We kicked him off the team" I would want their head, forget about their job.

 

 

it's kinda weak as a suggestion, but kicking them off the team and the police deciding no further action is required is a heck of a lot better than they didn't do a darn thing because the accused was best friends of the Administration and Board...

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

it's kinda weak as a suggestion, but kicking them off the team and the police deciding no further action is required is a heck of a lot better than they didn't do a darn thing because the accused was best friends of the Administration and Board...

 

 

 

 

Why is it a weak suggestion.  What they did was send the message that if you sexually abuse a female on campus you will kicked off the team.  That's it.  People don't care what you say, especially when it comes to cracking down on these types of things.  They will pay attention to what you do. 

 

Hold a team meeting and tell the team that any allegation will be turned over to to campus security, the Title 9 office, local police and the District Attorney's office.  Tell all the players, directly involved or not, as well that they are to cooperate fully with all investigations and any failure to do so or any evidence that the information they provided was not 100% consistent with their knowledge of the incident will result in immediate dismissal from the team.  

 

Tell which of those messages will get the attention of the players?  Hopefully they will never have to, but if they did have to enforce this position they would only have to do it once.  The message that they take these things seriously and there will be consequences will heard loud and clear.

Edited by CritMark
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Crit, the police were brought in for the football situations and it was not seen as worthy of going forward, I explicitly stated that

 

your over the top rampant emotionalism is showing here....

 

again, the hoops situation is different, ALSO explicitly stated by me, which your hairy spaz dance failed to absorb

 

 

Edited by row_33
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10 hours ago, row_33 said:

Crit, the police were brought in for the football situations and it was not seen as worthy of going forward, I explicitly stated that

 

your over the top rampant emotionalism is showing here....

 

again, the hoops situation is different, ALSO explicitly stated by me, which your hairy spaz dance failed to absorb

 

 

 

To quote a famous movie line, what we have here is a failure to communicate. You are talking about a specific situation and I am talking about policy.  I want to see an actual strict policy vigorously enforced.  I want an environment where all students feel safe and potential perpetrators know there are serious consequences for their actions.  That did not and currently does not exist at MSU.  That did not exist at Baylor.  If you look at the stats, it does not exist on a large number of campuses around the country.  

 

I'm sorry if you can't distinguish between the two. That said, I will back away from this conversation.  It's obvious with the name calling you are incapable of intelligent discourse.  To bad too, this is a serious issue worth some serious conversation.

 

I wish you well.

 

 

 

 

Edited by CritMark
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5 hours ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

NCAA doesn't have the authority, power or interest (sadly) in handling these issues.  State AG is the best bet.

I think they need to do a real investigation that is not tied to political donations ...scrap the AG and go right to the Feds...

 

 

Edited by YoloinOhio
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