Every Dareus hater, APOLOGIZE

[BigBuff423]

Don't need to apologize....even when he WAS playing, he wasn't making that much of a difference. To me, the issue is not the absence of Dareus, it is the LBers missing their assignments, missed tackles, and the DTs not getting the push they were getting. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

 

Not up for debate? LOL whatever you guys want to think I guess. Playing teams that can't run the ball has a lot more to do with their stats than a guy playing 12 snaps. You're delusional if you think 38 snaps out of 120+ is having a huge impact on anything. When we play teams that can't run the ball well, we also stop them. In fact both teams played the Bengals. In those games Marcel played roughly 35% of the snaps. The Bills allowed 82 yards and the Jags 29. The Bengals have had 1 100 yard rushing game. It's hardly a correlation. Good team plays bad team, good team has nice stats. Nothing to do with Dareus.

The numbers is every case support those defenses being better. We can talk about how much is because of him but it’s is a fact that the Bills were better against the run with him than they are now and the Jags are better against the run now than before he got there. Again, we can justify it by minimizing his contributions but the end results aren’t disputable. 

[oldmanfan]

I think Dareus may have had a marginal effect in the last couple games.  It would have depended on how motivated he was.  And therein was the problem.  Could you count on him every game?

 

The last two games guys in the D forgot how to tackle and were just beaten physically.  Dareus might have taken up an extra blocker at times, but still if you're one in one with a guy and he kicks your butt you lose.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think Dareus may have had a marginal effect in the last couple games.  It would have depended on how motivated he was.  And therein was the problem.  Could you count on him every game?

 

The last two games guys in the D forgot how to tackle and were just beaten physically.  Dareus might have taken up an extra blocker at times, but still if you're one in one with a guy and he kicks your butt you lose.

 

Ya never know the plan coachs could of used him as run defender and Dareus said !@#$ it and trade me. But none of less he is a mammoth in the run game.

[CountryCletus]

I need to see more than two games to be an apologizer.... I still think that ditching Dareus is addition by subtraction in a few ways- attitude, inconsistent effort, off field issues, salary cap.... but we will need to see more moving forward- are the Bills the team they showed weeks 1-8 or are they the team we saw weeks 9-10....  something definitely changed, it may be Dareus, but it may just be a down couple weeks,.. Hell, maybe all these teams aren’t go we thought they were...

[Jerry Christ]

Its not the idea of him being good......its the idea of him being BIG. Can't run toward him. He can't get after nobody, but, like I said you can't run toward him. See Ted Washington etc.

[CountryCletus]

1 minute ago, Jerry Christ said:

Its not the idea of him being good......its the idea of him being BIG. Can't run toward him. He can't get after nobody, but, like I said you can't run toward him. See Ted Washington etc.

We can pay any fat dude to occupy space... why pay him QB money???

[CSBill]

Yes, so a better locker room, but a worse product. I'm sure that 6th round pick next year will make us all forget about Dareus "who?"

[CountryCletus]

3 minutes ago, CSBill said:

Yes, so a better locker room, but a worse product. I'm sure that 6th round pick next year will make us all forget about Dareus "who?"

Everyone that continues to evaluate this trade as Dareus vs whatever we get for that 6th round pick, clearly doesn’t understand the broader football operation and how teams are constructed....

[Doc]

55 minutes ago, CountryCletus said:

Everyone that continues to evaluate this trade as Dareus vs whatever we get for that 6th round pick, clearly doesn’t understand the broader football operation and how teams are constructed....

 

Most of us understand the why they traded him, and truth be told, he needed to move on.  But eventually.  The Bills were and still are in the playoff hunt and shipping-out Dareus only hurts their chances.  And there are no EJ Gaines or Kelvin Benjamins waiting to be added.

[CountryCletus]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Most of us understand the why they traded him, and truth be told, he needed to move on.  But eventually.  The Bills were and still are in the playoff hunt and shipping-out Dareus only hurts their chances.  And there are no EJ Gaines or Kelvin Benjamins waiting to be added.

Regardless of what anyone within the organization says, this was always a rebuilding year... you don’t make the moves they made early on and say it was to get better today.  It sucks starting so hot and getting our hopes up, but it is what it is- a rebuilding year... we won’t truly see what these guys have in the plans until 2019

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If they honestly wanted to make the playoffs this year, it was a completely awful trade. All this BS culture talk.  You know what helps the culture: winning. And you win with talent.  

 

But all will will be forgiven when we miss the playoffs after starting 5-2 when we draft the next Brady with that 6th round pick.

 

yesterday was embarrassing. We got bullied by a team that has been one of the softest in the nfl for a decade. 

 

It's been "The Bills Way" -- giving away the best talent on the team for next to nothing that supposedly will someday produce a playoff run that never comes -- for the last decade but we're all supposed to believe that we haven't been down this road before.  Of course, 2017 is shaping up to be a mirror image of 2008 and 2011 when the Bills started out 5-2 and then collapsed defensively. 

 

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

 

That’s not very good

 

You're not going to EVER convince the Bills true believers that the Dareus trade was a mistake simply because they buy every specious excuse that OBD feeds them ... and then they make some more of their own.  You'll STILL find those who defend trading away Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch.

 

18 hours ago, CanadianFan said:

 

Bob, I know you are a smart man, I've read many of your comments. You need to get over simplistic explanations offered by that stat and READ and comprehend. How do you not get this simple explanation. He isn't good for stopping the pass. He's great for run stopping. If he's in there only for 40% of the snaps that meant HE WAS DOING HIS JOB STOPPING THE RUNS, and it became PASSING DOWNS so he came out.   

 

How do you NOT get this Bob?

 

What was our BIGGEST PROBLEM THESE PAST TWO WEEKS?  Can you just SCAN the threads here? Answer me that simple question - what was our BIGGEST defensive issue last sunday?

 

 

 

Too many Bills fans can't get their minds around the idea that in modern NFL defenses, players can specialize.  McDermott used Dareus as a run stopping specialist, and he was good at it, but he took Dareus out on passing plays.  I'm not going to pretend to know why McDermott didn't use Dareus on passing downs because it's not like the Bills had anybody else who could collapse the pocket, but Jim Schwartz used him successfully on passing down back in the "good ol' days" of 2014 when the Bills actually got to passers.

 

 

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What everyone is OVER LOOKING on the Dareus trade with regards to COST:  Likely gonna cost us a 1st/2nd round pick in this deal too. 

 

1.  He wasn't a position of luxury or depth, he MUST be replaced in THIS draft or FA, and it will most likely be the draft.

2.  All we got was a 6th that could become a 5th.  The odds of us replacing Dareus with that draft pick effectively are probably less than 5% and probably closer to below 3%.  

3.  As a result of needing to replace him, we are more than likely going to have to use a higher draft pick on him, and with the acquisition of Kelvin Benjamin, I think DL is now going to be top of the list and likely use one of our first rounders and definitely within the first 2 rounds.

4.  So not only do we LOSE a young talented DT locked up under contract, we also are likely going to be forced to use one of our high draft picks, probably a first rounder TRYING to replace him.  And even using an early pick like a 1st, the odds of us finding an equal replacement are very low, and even a guy who is a solid replacement isnt very high as most first rounders bust or fall short of expectations. 

5.  And if that draft pick doesn't pan out, we will continue to need to invest draft capital moving forward searching for the hole we created...a hole that all we got back for was a 6th round pick.  

6.  Pretty good chance we need to replace Kyle Williams next year too (or at least should), making it 2 holes on the DL we may be searching for replacements in this draft for.

 

If you really look at the whole picture, not only did we lose Dareus, but now we likely lost a high pick in this next draft we COULD have spent on many other holes just to try and replace someone we wouldn't have had to replace.  We should have at least rode the season out to see if he and the new staff could find common ground before getting rid of him so cheap.  Not to mention, if he continued to show strong this season, we could have gotten much better compensation, like at least a 2nd to help try and find a replacement.

 

PS:  I dont want to hear about cap crap in regards to trading now vs the off season.  You don't give away talented young players locked up just to save a little on the cap one extra season, thats not how teams make the playoffs.  

 

Spot on post.   If the Bills draft a DT in 2018, it will be 2-3 seasons before he starts playing up to his best level, and yes, they need to find a replacement for Kyle Williams plus they definitely need a RG better than Vlad Ducasse and Richie Incognito is as old as KW, so he's not going to be around much longer, either.  Basically, the Bills need to rebuild both lines.   I will be shocked, however, if the Bills actually draft any DLer or OLer on Day 1 or 2 in 2018.  They'll go with a QB in the first round because they'll need to excite the fan base with a shiny new first round QB savior even if they have to reach for one ... just like they did in 2013.

 

1 hour ago, CountryCletus said:

Everyone that continues to evaluate this trade as Dareus vs whatever we get for that 6th round pick, clearly doesn’t understand the broader football operation and how teams are constructed....

 

Seventeen years of no play offs, including  the last 12 years under the direction of Russ Brandon, suggests it's "clearly" NOT Bills fans who don't "understand the broader football operation and how teams are constructed...." 

 

All Bills fans, myself included, are guilty of is being repeatedly duped by the people running the Buffalo Bills.

[CountryCletus]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

It's been "The Bills Way" -- giving away the best talent on the team for next to nothing that supposedly will someday produce a playoff run that never comes -- for the last decade but we're all supposed to believe that we haven't been down this road before.  Of course, 2017 is shaping up to be a mirror image of 2008 and 2011 when the Bills started out 5-2 and then collapsed defensively. 

 

 

You're not going to EVER convince the Bills true believers that the Dareus trade was a mistake simply because they buy every specious excuse that OBD feeds them ... and then they make some more of their own.  You'll STILL find those who defend trading away Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch.

 

 

Too many Bills fans can't get their minds around the idea that in modern NFL defenses, players can specialize.  McDermott used Dareus as a run stopping specialist, and he was good at it, but he took Dareus out on passing plays.  I'm not going to pretend to know why McDermott didn't use Dareus on passing downs because it's not like the Bills had anybody else who could collapse the pocket, but Jim Schwartz used him successfully on passing down back in the "good ol' days" of 2014 when the Bills actually got to passers.

 

 

 

Spot on post.   If the Bills draft a DT in 2018, it will be 2-3 seasons before he starts playing up to his best level, and yes, they need to find a replacement for Kyle Williams plus they definitely need a RG better than Vlad Ducasse and Richie Incognito is as old as KW, so he's not going to be around much longer, either.  Basically, the Bills need to rebuild both lines.   I will be shocked, however, if the Bills actually draft any DLer or OLer on Day 1 or 2 in 2018.  They'll go with a QB in the first round because they'll need to excite the fan base with a shiny new first round QB savior even if they have to reach for one ... just like they did in 2013.

 

 

Seventeen years of no play offs, including  the last 12 years under the direction of Russ Brandon, suggests it's "clearly" NOT Bills fans who don't "understand the broader football operation and how teams are constructed...." 

 

All Bills fans, myself included, are guilty of is being repeatedly duped by the people running the Buffalo Bills.

While I agree that there are fans that will buy whatever the organization sells, I’m not one.  I like to look at all sides of a deal or situation and formulate my own opinion.  My own opinion can even be changed based on good points brought up by others.  As it stands now, Jason Peters continually came back or held out crying for new contract after new contract- screw that.  Marshawn Lynch was one poor decision away from a year long suspension, and with all the crap he found himself in in such a short period here in B-lo, it wasn’t a stretch to think he would find that trouble before long (which is why we only got a 4th for him), and I’ve already explained my stance on the Dareus trade.  Never once have I claimed that these players weren’t talented, the first two are/were elite talents at their position, but I’m not sold on Dareus... I was once sold on him, but I’m not sure if I was looking at his draft position and hype, or if it was his production.... either way, his recent productivity and attitude has be questioning what I thought I once knew....

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, CountryCletus said:

Regardless of what anyone within the organization says, this was always a rebuilding year... you don’t make the moves they made early on and say it was to get better today.  It sucks starting so hot and getting our hopes up, but it is what it is- a rebuilding year... we won’t truly see what these guys have in the plans until 2019

 

I never viewed it as a rebuilding year because I didn't think any of the players they traded/released were critical to the team's success.  And then they started winning and all rebuilding talk went out the window.  Now they've traded a talented DL who would have made a major difference in the last 2 games, all for a late pick next year and cap savings in 2019. 

[CountryCletus]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I never viewed it as a rebuilding year because I didn't think any of the players they traded/released were critical to the team's success.  And then they started winning and all rebuilding talk went out the window.  Now they've traded a talented DL who would have made a major difference in the last 2 games, all for a late pick next year and cap savings in 2019. 

So you didn’t view our #1 WR or our #1 CB as a key to success, but you viewed one of our starting DT’s as the key???

[SoTier]

51 minutes ago, CountryCletus said:

While I agree that there are fans that will buy whatever the organization sells, I’m not one.  I like to look at all sides of a deal or situation and formulate my own opinion.  My own opinion can even be changed based on good points brought up by others.  As it stands now, Jason Peters continually came back or held out crying for new contract after new contract- screw that.  Marshawn Lynch was one poor decision away from a year long suspension, and with all the crap he found himself in in such a short period here in B-lo, it wasn’t a stretch to think he would find that trouble before long (which is why we only got a 4th for him), and I’ve already explained my stance on the Dareus trade.  Never once have I claimed that these players weren’t talented, the first two are/were elite talents at their position, but I’m not sold on Dareus... I was once sold on him, but I’m not sure if I was looking at his draft position and hype, or if it was his production.... either way, his recent productivity and attitude has be questioning what I thought I once knew....

 

Well, you might think you don't "buy whatever the organization sells" but your post says differently. 

[CountryCletus]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

Well, you might think you don't "buy whatever the organization sells" but your post says differently. 

LMAO... master of psychology....  I actually explained my opinion on each of those moves, so I’m a little confused as to why you think I’m drinking the koolaid.... actually, just PM me any future opinions that I should have and I go along with it in an order to appease everyone here 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, CountryCletus said:

So you didn’t view our #1 WR or our #1 CB as a key to success, but you viewed one of our starting DT’s as the key???

 

I based things off of 2016.  Sammy was barely there and barely productive so no, I didn't view him as a key (loss).  I thought that they might miss Gilmore (but not Darby) and that it depended on how Tre' White did, but I wasn't ready to dismiss the year over that since I thought that going back to the 4-3 would improve the defense significantly and help hide deficiencies in the secondary.  They found replacements for Gilmore, Darby, Aaron Williams and Corey Graham, and for Sammy, Woods, and Goodwin.  What they don't have, and won't have, is a replacement for Dareus. 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, CountryCletus said:

LMAO... master of psychology....  I actually explained my opinion on each of those moves, so I’m a little confused as to why you think I’m drinking the koolaid.... actually, just PM me any future opinions that I should have and I go along with it in an order to appease everyone here 

SoTier has an obsession with Brandon.

 

Reviewing the history of things,:

 

1.  With Peters yeah they should have kept him. And he deserved a bigger deal. But recall Peters had gotten hurt, and then during the offseason he would not come in to get the injury evaluated.  Brandon supposedly told him and his agent they were open to renegotiating, but wanted him to come in to talk and to get his injury evaluated.  Peters chose to stay away and not have any contact with the front office.  If I were Brandon I would have flown down to his house and camped out on his porch till he came out, but it just shows there were two sides to that story. 

 

2.  Lynch.  Besides being one more dumb thing away from a long suspension,  when the Bills drafted Spiller in round 1 (a mistake, but anther topic), Lynch and his agent went to Buddy and told him he would not sign another contract in Buffalo.  So they got what they could. 

 

3.  Dareus.  I love how people around here talk about how it's the organizations fault when a guy has an attitude problem.  Dareus has gone through a lot n his personal life.  He needed help and as I recall the Bills tried to help him get that. But bottom line is he signed a huge contract and then his play diminished.  Call it scheme under Rex if you want (and with some validity), but they went back to a scheme that favored him this year, and what does he do?  Decides to show up late, etc. and the HC provides some discipline and structure that maybe the kid actually needs.  But rather than accept that he apparently doesn't give full effort, winds up playing a minority of plays.  And you can't have your highest paid guy doing that.

 

Whatever happened to personal accountability?  The truly greats in sports, like the Jordans or Bradys or Gretzgys or Birds?  They practiced harder than anyone else on the team.  They demanded excellence not only of themselves, but of everyone around them.  The Bills need a guy like that.  Or two.  Or three.  Right now it's McD.  He'll get guys that are like that soon.

 

 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

SoTier has an obsession with Brandon.

 

Reviewing the history of things,:

 

1.  With Peters yeah they should have kept him. And he deserved a bigger deal. But recall Peters had gotten hurt, and then during the offseason he would not come in to get the injury evaluated.  Brandon supposedly told him and his agent they were open to renegotiating, but wanted him to come in to talk and to get his injury evaluated.  Peters chose to stay away and not have any contact with the front office.  If I were Brandon I would have flown down to his house and camped out on his porch till he came out, but it just shows there were two sides to that story. 

 

2.  Lynch.  Besides being one more dumb thing away from a long suspension,  when the Bills drafted Spiller in round 1 (a mistake, but anther topic), Lynch and his agent went to Buddy and told him he would not sign another contract in Buffalo.  So they got what they could. 

 

3.  Dareus.  I love how people around here talk about how it's the organizations fault when a guy has an attitude problem.  Dareus has gone through a lot n his personal life.  He needed help and as I recall the Bills tried to help him get that. But bottom line is he signed a huge contract and then his play diminished.  Call it scheme under Rex if you want (and with some validity), but they went back to a scheme that favored him this year, and what does he do?  Decides to show up late, etc. and the HC provides some discipline and structure that maybe the kid actually needs.  But rather than accept that he apparently doesn't give full effort, winds up playing a minority of plays.  And you can't have your highest paid guy doing that.

 

Whatever happened to personal accountability?  The truly greats in sports, like the Jordans or Bradys or Gretzgys or Birds?  They practiced harder than anyone else on the team.  They demanded excellence not only of themselves, but of everyone around them.  The Bills need a guy like that.  Or two.  Or three.  Right now it's McD.  He'll get guys that are like that soon.

 

Good refreshers about Peters and Lynch.  I don't think either guy was interested in re-signing with the Bills and that Lynch desperately wanted to get back to the left coast while Peters felt/knew he could get money anywhere else.

 

As for Dareus, I agree he got lazy/disinterested once he got his money.  But sometimes you put up with players with talent for awhile because they can help you win.  Doesn't mean you have to stick with them forever, but you keep them as long as you can.  I think they could have tried to trade him or release him after the season or maybe at the last second this season so as to make his dead cap count towards 2017 and 2018, if keeping 2019 unsullied was a major goal of theirs.