transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think the throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down is a Tyrod career problem. It has been more of an issue this year and it was a PARTICULAR problem against the Saints when he did it 4 times. 2 of which he had obvious open receivers down the football field. That one game doesn't define his career though. There are bigger Tyrod issues than throwing short on 3rd down. Yes... it was absolutely a big problem against the Saints. But overall it hasn't been a "problem" this year because he's successfully converting 3rd downs. Yet, people point to that Saints game as though it's an overall representation of what Taylor does on 3rd and 4th down, which is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Yes... it was absolutely a big problem against the Saints. But overall it hasn't been a "problem" this year because he's successfully converting 3rd downs. Yet, people point to that Saints game as though it's an overall representation of what Taylor does on 3rd and 4th down, which is just ridiculous. I think people point to the Saints game because it was particularly egregious and absurd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 converting 3rd downs means sustaining drives. where are the points? one td last week but converting 3rd downs have been real successful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: converting 3rd downs means sustaining drives. where are the points? one td last week but converting 3rd downs have been real successful. exactly ... The team improved 3rd down conversions yet still have no additional points to show for it. Imagine how inept the Bills offense would be w/o House Money nailing around 5 or so 50 + FG's 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 hours ago, jmc12290 said: You can't argue with the facts big fella. Hang in there. There's absolutely no way you are going to convince me that the 2014 Ravens offense was good when I can't remember them being good and it was only 3 years ago. For a team like the Ravens that is always driven by defense, if they had an actually good offensive team it would be surprising and noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, JM57 said: There's absolutely no way you are going to convince me that the 2014 Ravens offense was good when I can't remember them being good and it was only 3 years ago. For a team like the Ravens that is always driven by defense, if they had an actually good offensive team it would be surprising and noticeable. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2014.htm I can't help with the memory issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2014.htm I can't help with the memory issues. They were about as good as the Bills offense in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: They were about as good as the Bills offense in 2015. They were better than the Bills 2015 offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: They were better than the Bills 2015 offense. Both finished as the 9th ranked offense by DVOA in their respective years. 2015 Bills were 12 in Pass & 2 in Run 2014 Ravens were 6 in Pass & 18 in Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: The short ones are the ones he's converting. 10th in the league when they're 1 or 2 yards, 14th when they're 3 or 4 yards and 17th when longer. Not a clue where you're getting your information from, but the only one you got right is that he's 10th when they're 1 or 2 yards. He's 8th from 3-7 yards. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=048&type=Passing&year=2017 He's 15th when 8+ yards. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=047&type=Passing&year=2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Both finished as the 9th ranked offense by DVOA in their respective years. 2015 Bills were 12 in Pass & 2 in Run 2014 Ravens were 6 in Pass & 18 in Run Who cares what they were in pass and run? Yards and points count the same no matter how you get them. 2014 Ravens were 8th in points, 12th in yards 2015 Bills were 12th in points, 13th in yards Ravens better. Edited November 30, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, jmc12290 said: Who cares what they were in pass and run? Yards and points count the same no matter how you get them. 2014 Ravens were 8th in points, 12th in yards 2015 Bills were 12th in points, 13th in yards Ravens better. And adjusted for opponents (DVOA) they were both 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: And adjusted for opponents (DVOA) they were both 9th. IMO, if you're the same in one stat, and better in another, you're better. But to each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, jmc12290 said: IMO, if you're the same in one stat, and better in another, you're better. But to each their own. My original statement was "about as good". And that's exactly what they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: (this is like a double dare) He's got a nice smile? Oh and He's a Captain on the team! When he executes the planned QB run he does real good. He is very accurate in checkdown passes. His continued trust in Zay is good (could be better across the board) I have been complimentary. It's the justified criticism that sticks out to his fans. We've beaten this horse to dust. And yet you continue to beat that horse with everyone else 2 hours ago, jmc12290 said: I think people point to the Saints game because it was particularly egregious and absurd. It was. But it was an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: converting 3rd downs means sustaining drives. where are the points? one td last week but converting 3rd downs have been real successful. Well I dunno, but it doesn't help that 4 out of 12 of our drives ended because of a called run. 3 of those were stuffed for 2 yards or less. The other was a 4 yard gain... on 3rd and 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Unless you expected/predicted the Bills to win 10+ games and make the playoffs, you should be pretty happy with McDermott. I know I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Well I dunno, but it doesn't help that 4 out of 12 of our drives ended because of a called run. 3 of those were stuffed for 2 yards or less. The other was a 4 yard gain... on 3rd and 6 But WE ARE A RUN ORIENTED team. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: But WE ARE A RUN ORIENTED team. Why is that? It's the only thing our OL was competent at. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 9 hours ago, jmc12290 said: Anyway, I think if you're going to trust in Kubiak as an offensive mind, you have to give the benefit of the doubt to his right hand man. When Kubiak was an HC, and Rico his OC, you have to imagine Kubiak considered Rico's contribution valuable. That doesnt mean he gets to ride Kubiak's coattails forever. But I don't think it should be tossed either. ....and I'm certain Payton found his OC Doug Marrone a valuable contributor with Saints.......with the Big Dawgs BOTH being offensive minded, Dennison and Marrone were more assistants versus bonafide OC's...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 On 11/29/2017 at 12:11 PM, transplantbillsfan said: Wait, are you actually saying that Taylor is calling the offensive plays in the second half? Right. We called 9 passes. 26 passes called in the 1st half. 9 in the 2nd half. Second half was 12 run plays 9 pass plays 2 kneel downs Take away the kneel downs at the end and they only ran 21 second half plays of which 9 were passing plays. I dunno, I don't see any issue at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said: Second half was 12 run plays 9 pass plays 2 kneel downs Take away the kneel downs at the end and they only ran 21 second half plays of which 9 were passing plays. I dunno, I don't see any issue at all. ....Dickie Jauron "play not to lose" ball.....sometimes it works....other times it fails.......8-8 forever......oh well..............we tried................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: But WE ARE A RUN ORIENTED team. Why is that? Clearly that's a rhetorical question, so please, tell me why? 19 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It's the only thing our OL was competent at. Pretty much... now they can't seem to do anything better than below average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Clearly that's a rhetorical question, so please, tell me why? Read the ? s of pages in numerous threads. Horse dust rember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Read the ? s of pages in numerous threads. Horse dust rember. But you like to talk about Taylor so much since you pretty much live in every Taylor thread out there... refresh my memory, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: But you like to talk about Taylor so much since you pretty much live in every Taylor thread out there... refresh my memory, please? This is a messed up comment considering who is saying it. This thread should have died off long ago but yet here you are still trying hard to push this garbage thread along . Are you and JM related in any way? SMH Edited November 30, 2017 by xRUSHx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: But you like to talk about Taylor so much since you pretty much live in every Taylor thread out there... refresh my memory, please? Every thread? Porve it. I’m such a child. Laugh a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Every thread? Porve it. I’m such a child. Laugh a little. You really do talk about Taylor A LOT... I already glanced at your posting history. At this point, I bet you have double the posts around the subject of Tyrod Taylor than I do total posts over the span of the just the 9 months that the two of us have been members here. The thing is, I really don't care... it's a message board... people can talk about whatever the hell they want to... just go to the threads you want to have a conversation in. You're just ALWAYS in the Taylor threads. And one of your go-to arguments is "why are we talking about this again? We're beating a dead horse." Just pretty funny hypocrisy is all. Edited November 30, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: You really do talk about Taylor A LOT... I already glanced at your posting history. At this point, I bet you have double the posts around the subject of Tyrod Taylor than I do total posts over the span of the just the 9 months that the two of us have been members here. The thing is, I really don't care... it's a message board... people can talk about whatever the hell they want to... just go to the threads you want to have a conversation in. You're just ALWAYS in the Taylor threads. And one of your go-to arguments is "why are we talking about this again? We're beating a dead horse." Just pretty funny hypocrisy is all. what's funny here is this is coming from someone who has 100's of taylor posts and made numerous taylor threads yet here he is giving another poster a hard time because, well, he's in his little thread. honestly, you have been more hot air than anything else when it comes to taylor, like an obsession. I know, you'll come back at me, cry the old you don't need to be here either but I couldn't resist with such a hypocritical post as the one above. hypocrite. Quote The thing is, I really don't care... it's a message board... people can talk about whatever the hell they want to stop telling folks where they need to post and ftr, yes you have beat this horse to death. taylor stats taylor fire the coach stats best 3rd down conversion% taylor stats stats best 3rd down conversion% stats stats fire the coach taylor taylor taylor Edited November 30, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: what's funny here is this is coming from someone who has 100's of taylor posts and made numerous taylor threads yet here he is giving another poster a hard time because, well, he's in his little thread. honestly, you have been more hot air than anything else when it comes to taylor, like an obsession. I know, you'll come back at me, cry the old you don't need to be here either but I couldn't resist with such a hypocritical post as the one above. hypocrite. stop telling folks where they need to post and ftr, yes you have beat this horse to death. taylor stats taylor fire the coach stats best 3rd down conversion% taylor stats stats best 3rd down conversion% stats stats fire the coach taylor taylor taylor you mad, bro? Funny, I've been out in the open that I talk about Taylor a lot. I enjoy the discussion. I don't think I've ever once uttered the phrase "beating a dead horse" on this board or over at BBMB like Shady and you do regarding any discussion I'm actively participating in. Don't like the discussion. Stay out of it. Think a discussion is old and tired and worn. Stay out of it. Edited December 1, 2017 by transplantbillsfan 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: you mad, bro? Funny, I've been out in the open that I talk about Taylor a lot. I enjoy the discussion. I don't think I've ever once uttered the phrase "beating a dead horse" on this board or over at BBMB like Shady and you do regarding any discussion I'm actively participating in. Don't like the discussion. Stay out of it. Think a discussion is old and tired and worn. Stay out of it. see, you can't even differentiate mad from stating a fact. no, I wont stay out of it. hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Analyst Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 On 11/29/2017 at 11:27 AM, Watkins90 said: Most teams run the ball when they are up two scores in the second half. Didn't everyone kill the Falcons last year for throwing too much in the second half of the Super Bowl which allowed the Pats time to get back in the game? I mean, we should probably throw a little more than we do when up by two scores, but that mostly just comes down to the offense being super obvious. LIke Dennison only throws the ball on third and long in the second half. It wouldn't be an issue if our rushing attack was better. While you might call it conservative, doesn't running the ball also wear down the defense? Aren't they trying to move the ball while also keep the clock running? I just don't by the assessment you are making. I'd like to see some other stats of other QBs, and how often they throw in the second half up two scores. And if I counted correctly, the bills are 3-0 this year when they were up by 10 and used this approach. So it might not be exciting and it certainly can be stressful, but if it works, it's a good strategy. Now if they can only get out to a big lead quickly, we are gold n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: see, you can't even differentiate mad from stating a fact. no, I wont stay out of it. hypocrite. Hypocrite, eh? You say I'm full of hot air despite at least bringing in new perspective and evidence into what might be a stale discussion to some while you come into just every conversation to say... well... not much at all. But I'm the hypocrite? To those, like you, who are sick of those conversations, stay out. Yet, right now you're saying you won't stay out. Why is that? Are you some kind of self-appointed watchdog? The TBD Gestapo? Relax old-timer. 1 hour ago, bmacdona said: And if I counted correctly, the bills are 3-0 this year when they were up by 10 and used this approach. So it might not be exciting and it certainly can be stressful, but if it works, it's a good strategy. Now if they can only get out to a big lead quickly, we are gold n. Think it'll work against Tom Brady on Sunday if we manage to go ahead by a couple scores? Edited December 1, 2017 by transplantbillsfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 SO.. how good would have Stafford or Eli have been if they ever had a running game or back like McCoy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: SO.. how good would have Stafford or Eli have been if they ever had a running game or back like McCoy? Running game or running back? Which one? Shady's having the worst year of his career despite not appearing to lose a step. As you see this year... the OL kinda matters in the running game... and ours sucks. Stafford & Eli would get killed with our line. Edited December 1, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Not a clue where you're getting your information from, but the only one you got right is that he's 10th when they're 1 or 2 yards. He's 8th from 3-7 yards. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=048&type=Passing&year=2017 He's 15th when 8+ yards. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=047&type=Passing&year=2017 Seriously? I'm wrong? You don't have a clue (you got that right, actually) about where I'm geting my information from? That's pretty sad, Transplant. Typical, but sad. Why? Why do you not know where I got that? Seriously, why? Here's what you said about the place where I found that. You said, "This is a really nice find, Hap." A page or two back. In this thread. It's in the article about ALEX that Happy Days posted and you replied to and repeated the link. I shouldn't be surprised. That's your typical method, isn't it? Find something. Look for the part that might be used to cast a good light on Tyrod. And then ignore or forget the rest. I shouldn't be surprised, So I got all of them right. Again, the short ones are the ones he's converting. 10th in the league when they're 1 or 2 yards, 14th when they're 3 or 4 yards and 17th when longer. The longer they are the further down the list he slips in percentage of success. And again, from the same article, 29th out of 38 QBs this year in terms of ALEX. Only 11 guys averaged throwing less than as far as the sticks on third down. Tyrod was one of these 11. Edited December 1, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 . 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Running game or running back? Which one? Shady's having the worst year of his career despite not appearing to lose a step. As you see this year... the OL kinda matters in the running game... and ours sucks. Stafford & Eli would get killed with our line. Stafford and Eli would throw on time, unlike Tyrod. Not that the o-line is very good, but part of the reason they are having problems is that on plenty of plays Tyrod holds it too long. This is exactly one of Tyrod's main problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 If the Bills fire Dennison and keep TT, we'll hear retroactive excuses about how he's never had the same OC and how much that's crippled his growth. The cycle will always continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: If the Bills fire Dennison and keep TT, we'll hear retroactive excuses about how he's never had the same OC and how much that's crippled his growth. The cycle will always continue. Yup. Last couple of years we heard all about how awful Roman was and how he was holding Tyrod back. Now under Dennison they're saying, "See, Rico is killing the offense. Look at how awful the running game is now. It's just like Dak Prescott. Prescott is good with Elliott, and terrible without. See? Same with Tyrod. If only he had a real running game, no telling how good he would look. And Tyrod keeps producing at nearly the exact same rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Well I dunno, but it doesn't help that 4 out of 12 of our drives ended because of a called run. 3 of those were stuffed for 2 yards or less. The other was a 4 yard gain... on 3rd and 6 No, but one of those drive-ending runs came on 3rd and 11 with two minutes left in the game. We just wanted to make KC spend their last time-out so we tried a QB draw and Tyrod was caught for -1 yards. We were just burning clock. And I looked at your math, 4 out of 12 drives ended because of a called run, and I thought, jeez, doesn't that mean some ended on a called pass, too? I'm no Blaise Pascal, but I coulda sworn it did. After a few hours on the computer checking this assumption, I found I was right. So yeah, it didn't help that 4 out of 12 of our drives ended because of a called run. Nor did it help that after you remove the TD and the four runs you referred to above, the other 7 drives ended in called passes. Three incompletions, an eleven yard sack on a 3rd-and-one, and three completed passes that didn't make first downs. That includes a 3rd-and-nine completed for seven yards and a 3rd-and-four completed for three yards. Glad we did so much better on those called passes. Oh ... wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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