BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Last season it was the Defense that got the blame from 2009. This seasons excuse de jour WR. oh and Ducasse. Honest question: Is the 24th and 27th ranked DVOA Defense acceptable? Is it truly an excuse? Or is it simply a clear part of why we lost some of the games that we did from 2015-2016? Every loss over the past 2 years and 5 games cannot be pinned to one position. Is our current talent level at WR & TE acceptable? I don't think it is regardless of who's playing QB. Granted, that's partly due to injuries. I do think that, as the topic originally alluded to, it is potentially understated that Tyrod's stats have remained consistent despite the progressive loss in talent around him on offense. From 2015-2016 he had his top 2 pass catchers available to him in just under half of the games he played. That's not an excuse, his numbers are what they are, but the people who want to act like his numbers wouldn't be better with more talent around him and 2+ years of chemistry building are incredibly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Honest question: Is the 24th and 27th ranked DVOA Defense acceptable? Is it truly an excuse? Or is it simply a clear part of why we lost some of the games that we did from 2015-2016? Every loss over the past 2 years and 5 games cannot be pinned to one position. Is our current talent level at WR & TE acceptable? I don't think it is regardless of who's playing QB. Granted, that's partly due to injuries. I do think that, as the topic originally alluded to, it is potentially understated that Tyrod's stats have remained consistent despite the progressive loss in talent around him on offense. From 2015-2016 he had his top 2 pass catchers available to him in just under half of the games he played. That's not an excuse, his numbers are what they are, but the people who want to act like his numbers wouldn't be better with more talent around him and 2+ years of chemistry building are incredibly mistaken. Sure we can blame the defense in part for last seasons record, BUT that now improved defense s/b worth close to 3 additional wins. Is our current talent level at WR & TE acceptable? It could be if Tentative Taylor throws the ball with anticipation and not wait for the perfect opportunity that may never arrive It seems very little has changed with TT from last season to this. Beyond injuries ...... How many games over the last 2 seasons did the passing game get abandoned later in games and the Bills lost because of it with both Sammy and Clay healthy? just saying it may not be as bad as some Champions want to admit. Edited October 12, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Did you miss the point? Sure we can blame the defense in part for last seasons record, BUT that now improved defense s/b worth close to 3 additional wins. It seems very little has changed with TT from last season to this. How much combined time was Sammy, Clay, Shady and others injured last season? How many games over the last 2 seasons did the passing game get abandoned later in games and the Bills lost because of it with both Sammy and Clay healthy? just saying it may not be as bad as some Champions want to admit. Is our current talent level at WR & TE acceptable? It could be if Tentative Taylor throws the ball with anticipation and not wait for the perfect opportunity that may never arrive Glad to see you couldn't even answer the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Glad to see you couldn't even answer the questions. I rewrote the post due to my obvious error I have seen nothing from Typical Taylor that makes me think he will improve. w/o this defense we'd probably have 1 or 2 wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 % complete is pretty close Scott. That in a key stat. Not getting deep balls could be more indicative of the QB not passing the ball effectively. If TT can't get comfortable with his teammates after how many months... It may never happen. But TDs are more than double. Yardage is way up. Also key stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Sure we can blame the defense in part for last seasons record, BUT that now improved defense s/b worth close to 3 additional wins. Is our current talent level at WR & TE acceptable? It could be if Tentative Taylor throws the ball with anticipation and not wait for the perfect opportunity that may never arrive It seems very little has changed with TT from last season to this. Beyond injuries ...... How many games over the last 2 seasons did the passing game get abandoned later in games and the Bills lost because of it with both Sammy and Clay healthy? just saying it may not be as bad as some Champions want to admit. i literally LOL'd at this. the fact that you think its remotely acceptable is hilarious and speaks volumes about why these "debates" on tyrod are so pointless. minds have obviously already been made up and theres NOTHING that can be said to change views.... when somebody can look at this trash heap of wr's and say its acceptable all I can do is chuckle. that's just absurd. FTR, i'm totally on board with finding a better option at qb. I don't think anything has changed with tyrod. I think he's an average qb with occasional game changing potential. I think the defense finally stepping up has shown how underrated his efficiency and lack of turnovers can be.... but to not acknowledge certain things like the talent in the wr corp that has routinely evaded the team over the last 2 years via injury or lack of caring by the FO is just silly. there are all of about 3 qb's that could carry this scrap heap at wr and TE to wins. people need to get a freaking clue. Edited October 12, 2017 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Please stop saying that. No he didn't. His career numbers might look the same but the individual games don't. What is the time frame here? 2015 and 2016? or does that include 2017 as well? But TDs are more than double. Yardage is way up. Also key stats. because TT is gun shy. He doesn't throw it when he should most of the time. The blame everyone else by Taylor is growing old. i literally LOL'd at this. the fact that you think its remotely acceptable is hilarious and speaks volumes about why these "debates" on tyrod are so pointless. minds have obviously already been made up and theres NOTHING that can be said to change views.... when somebody can look at this trash heap of wr's and say its acceptable all I can do is chuckle. that's just absurd. FTR, i'm totally on board with finding a better option at qb. I don't think anything has changed with tyrod. I think he's an average qb with occasional game changing potential. I think the defense finally stepping up has shown how underrated his efficiency and lack of turnovers can be.... but to not acknowledge certain things like the talent in the wr corp that has routinely evaded the team over the last 2 years via injury or lack of caring by the FO is just silly. there are all of about 3 qb's that could carry this scrap heap at wr and TE to wins. people need to get a freaking clue. Sorry... Did I say it was acceptable? Or am I saying it is not acceptable? It is the latter. To me Tentative Taylor has not done enough to convince me that when the game is on the line he will walk away with a win. The average of 2 great games per season out of 14 -16 games is not cutting it. Edited October 12, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 As I have said for the last couple years, Taylor's ceiling may not be that of an elite franchise QB, but his floor is much higher than most other QBs. It's really that simple. And that's why he'll start the rest of the year and Peterman won't take over the way some lunatics are so desperate to see. Are you really that satisfied with our QB play? Am I a lunatic for wanting a QB that can win football games throwing the football?Taylor, Peterman, whoever, I get the difference of opinion my friend, but not the insult because we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) What is the time frame here? 2015 and 2016? or does that include 2017 as well? because TT is gun shy. He doesn't throw it when he should most of the time. The blame everyone else by Taylor is growing old. Sorry... Did I say it was acceptable? Or am I saying it is not acceptable? It is the latter. To me Tentative Taylor has not done enough to convince me that when the game is on the line he will walk away with a win. The average of 2 great games per season out of 14 -16 games is not cutting it. you stated "it could be" acceptable if taylor had any anticipation.... whether taylor is playing well or not the lack of talent outside right now is never acceptable. hands down. and to act like it doesn't play a role in his shortcomings over the last 2 years is completely laughable. people have posted his numbers with his starting wr's as opposed to with the backups. its night and day. and the only argument that's put up when these FACTS AND HARD NUMBERS are posted is "but but but, I saw people open. so that must mean it doesn't make a difference who's out there"...... its nauseating. and again. we need better at qb in the future. i'm not arguing that point. heck.... I'm actually really interested to see what Peterman can do but I personally think if he were thrust into action right now it may be career suicide to a rookie, given the "weapons" we have at the moment. Edited October 12, 2017 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The problem with this assessment of Taylors play is the averages are caused by the lowest passing attempts in the league something of which is determined by the OC 's in the Bills run heavy O. Is the information accurate, sure, but the Bills also led the league in total rushing and average per attempt. ( previous season ) And two seasons of playing with mainly street FA quality WR's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) And two seasons of playing with mainly street FA quality WR's spend the whole off season building chemistry with players who are gone now Edited October 12, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 you stated "it could be" acceptable if taylor had any anticipation.... whether taylor is playing well or not the lack of talent outside right now is never acceptable. hands down. and to act like it doesn't play a role in his shortcomings over the last 2 years is completely laughable. people have posted his numbers with his starting wr's as opposed to with the backups. its night and day. and the only argument that's put up when these FACTS AND HARD NUMBERS are posted is "but but but, I saw people open. so that must mean it doesn't make a difference who's out there"...... its nauseating. and again. we need better at qb in the future. i'm not arguing that point. heck.... I'm actually really interested to see what Peterman can do but I personally think if he were thrust into action right now it may be career suicide to a rookie, given the "weapons" we have at the moment. If he had any anticipatory throws ... hell yes it would be acceptable!!! Why would you disagree with that? (unless you are Anti Tyrod) If he does it then we would have something more definitive to consider and then pass blame on the receivers if it is in fact a "lack of talent" catching passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 ......hmmm.......how do you fix this?.... Sal Maiorana, @salmaiorana Published 7:02 p.m. ET Oct. 8, 2017 | Updated 10:13 a.m. ET Oct. 9, 2017: ► Key stat: Taylor is now 2-16 in games where the Bills trail by four points or more at any time in a game. What this says is that the Buffalo quarterback has historically not gotten the job done when the Bills need to rally to win games. This was a shining example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Are you really that satisfied with our QB play? Am I a lunatic for wanting a QB that can win football games throwing the football?Taylor, Peterman, whoever, I get the difference of opinion my friend, but not the insult because we disagree. Yes, I'm satisfied. Not excited. Not even happy. But satisfied, yes. I care about this football team winning this year. I don't want a rookie fifth round draft pick who the coach clearly doesn't think is ready and isn't looking at as our long term answer given all of his efforts to acquire draft picks for next year being thrown in just because of the "grass is always greener on the other side" mentality. We can and are winning with Taylor. It's a little funny to me because even you were praising him after Denver and Atlanta. How quickly we forget. I think it's becoming more and more and more and more clear that McDermott plans on drafting a QB in the first round in 2018. Fine by me and fine by the rest of us, I'm sure. But I want to see us continue to win and be competitive right now. So yes, I'm satisfied. Do I want better? Of course. Am I willing to risk taking some serious steps back just to see what we have in some fifth round draft pick? No, we win now and let Taylor ride this out and draft his replacement in 2018 if things continue as they are. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) ......hmmm.......how do you fix this?.... Sal Maiorana, @salmaiorana Published 7:02 p.m. ET Oct. 8, 2017 | Updated 10:13 a.m. ET Oct. 9, 2017: ► Key stat: Taylor is now 2-16 in games where the Bills trail by four points or more at any time in a game. What this says is that the Buffalo quarterback has historically not gotten the job done when the Bills need to rally to win games. This was a shining example. Run 1st O is not designed to play catch up, especially when time on the clock becomes a factor in my humble opinion. I'm not sure what the outcome would be , but If I was Dennison I might be inclined to start throwing the football 80- 90% of the time and see what gives. The problem might be as much about being to predictable as it is lack of execution IMO. Yes, I'm satisfied. Not excited. Not even happy. But satisfied, yes. I care about this football team winning this year. I don't want a rookie fifth round draft pick who the coach clearly doesn't think is ready and isn't looking at as our long term answer given all of his efforts to acquire draft picks for next year being thrown in just because of the "grass is always greener on the other side" mentality. We can and are winning with Taylor. It's a little funny to me because even you were praising him after Denver and Atlanta. How quickly we forget. I think it's becoming more and more and more and more clear that McDermott plans on drafting a QB in the first round in 2018. Fine by me and fine by the rest of us, I'm sure. But I want to see us continue to win and be competitive right now. So yes, I'm satisfied. Do I want better? Of course. Am I willing to risk taking some serious steps back just to see what we have in some fifth round draft pick? No, we win now and let Taylor ride this out and draft his replacement in 2018 if things continue as they are. It's that simple. I'll give credit where/when credits due, I'll also place blame where/when it needs to be placed... Edited October 12, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Run 1st O is not designed to play catch up, especially when time on the clock becomes a factor in my humble opinion. I'm not sure what the outcome would be , but If I was Dennison I might be inclined to start throwing the football 80- 90% of the time and see what gives. The problem might be as much about being to predictable as it is lack of execution IMO. I'll give credit where/when credits due, I'll also place blame where/when it needs to be placed... ...great assessment bud......run first nauseates the hell outta me.....guess if our ONE HORSE goes down, we wave the white flag.........DiMarco?.....seriously?......Dennison trying to force TT to be a pocket passer is purely asinine.....why take away his "wheels attribute"?......you know the rest......I can't go through the whole litany again....I need a drink............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 OP conveniently takes out the rushing TD's and yards. that wouldnt help his case because those numbers are down considerably from last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 ......hmmm.......how do you fix this?.... Sal Maiorana, @salmaiorana Published 7:02 p.m. ET Oct. 8, 2017 | Updated 10:13 a.m. ET Oct. 9, 2017: ► Key stat: Taylor is now 2-16 in games where the Bills trail by four points or more at any time in a game. What this says is that the Buffalo quarterback has historically not gotten the job done when the Bills need to rally to win games. This was a shining example. That stat includes many games the defense lost the lead TT built. Miami and Oakland from last year alone. Win those two games and they are in the playoffs with a win against the jets in finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/10/16447198/buffalo-bills-quarterback-tyrod-taylor-total-production-passing-and-running This article pretty well sums up reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 And when he is still our starter week 1 2018 what happens to his may sayers? Peterman is garbage. That would be "if", not "when". And guys often make huge leaps between first and second years. Peterman could be one of those guys. Or not. Way too early, though, to assume he won't. Not to mention that teams sometimes draft new QBs. It's certainly not impossible they keep him, especially to give someone more time to develop. If it happens, people will most likely say what they're saying now, and with good reason. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/10/16447198/buffalo-bills-quarterback-tyrod-taylor-total-production-passing-and-running This article pretty well sums up reality 27th best in combined running and passing yards. Yup. Talks a lot about Tyrod barely fitting into the normal range, which for him goes from 6th best to 29th best. Those are the "average" guys for him. To repeat, 29th is within average range for this guy. He's got a point that a lack of turnovers should be to his credit, very much so, but that a lack of explosiveness in situations where we need aggressive play should be counted against him, the two sides of Tyrod's coin. I just find it hard to take this writer very seriously when he keeps referring to 29th best in the league as average and only 30th as below it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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