USS Indianapolis found!

[Captain_Quint]

All the feels:

 

 

https://news.usni.org/2017/08/19/uss-indianapolis-wreckage-found

 

 

 

Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into her side, Chief. We was comin back from the island of Tinian to Leyte. Wed just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes.

 

Didnt see the first shark for about a half-hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that in the water, Chief? You can tell by lookin from the dorsal to the tail. What we didnt know, was that our bomb mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didnt even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin and hollerin and sometimes that shark he go away but sometimes he wouldnt go away.

 

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is hes got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a dolls eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesnt even seem to be livin til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin. The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin and your hollerin those sharks come in and they rip you to pieces.

 

You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I dont know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Thursday mornin, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Bosons mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, hed been bitten in half below the waist.

 

At noon on the fifth day, a Lockheed Ventura swung in low and he spotted us, a young pilot, lot younger than Mr. Hooper here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol fat PBY come down and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin for my turn. Ill never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945.

 

Anyway, we delivered the bomb.

[DC Tom]

If there were a ship I thought they'd never find, it was the Indianapolis. She went down alone, without a message, with the survivors drifting for five days, meaning her position was pretty much completely unknown. They basically found a needle in a haystack.

[Buffalo716]

Wow!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Side note. Would "zig-zagging" have really helped? I know nothing about this other than they weren't doing it and there were sharks in the water?

 

DC... Was it a scapegoat? Would they zigged when torpedoes zagged?

[Captain_Quint]

I wont forgive Paul Allen for Windows 7, but this is a good start.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I wont forgive Paul Allen for Windows 7, but this is a good start.

I always wanted to ask... I guess a good topic to ask: Do you scratch on chalkboards to get a room's attention? For me, the sound drives me wild!

 

;-)

Edited August 20, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois

[DC Tom]

Side note. Would "zig-zagging" have really helped? I know nothing about this other than they weren't doing it and there were sharks in the water?

 

DC... Was it a scapegoat? Would they zigged when torpedoes zagged?

 

It would have helped in that I-58 intercepted her by sheer dumb luck - he surfaced and found Indianapolis in perfect position for an attack. Had Indianapolis been zig-zagging, at the very least she would have been elsewhere when I-58 surfaced.

 

If it would have helped tactically, during the attack...maybe. Plenty of torpedo attacks (sub and surface) in all navies were thrown off by last-minute zigs. But the attack in this case was practically a snapshot - 15-20 minutes from first sighting to firing, and I-58 had a good track on Indianapolis all that time - that it may not have made a difference.

 

Zig-zagging in poor visibility was at the commander's discretion at that time and place, btw. On an overcast night like when Indianapolis was sunk, it wasn't required.

 

It should also be noted that Indianapolis was a pre-war treaty cruiser (build under the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty). As such...well, it basically sucked. Indianapolis wasn't the worst of the bunch, but she was still poorly protected with a high center of gravity (even before the war, but made worse by the enhanced radar and AA fitted to all ships over the course of the war). She was far from being the first US cruiser to have her bow blown completely off by Japanese torpedoes.

[145B4IDIE]

I think we need a song.

[/dev/null]

I wont forgive Paul Allen for Windows 7, but this is a good start.

Windows 7 was an acceptable OS

Windows 10 the jury is still deliberating

 

XP was a warhorse that deserves a heroes burial

8, 8.1, and Vista were aberrations that should never be spoken of again

[145B4IDIE]

I thought we were talking about boats

[sherpa]

I believe the key to finding it was the discovery that another Navy vessel had spotted and logged a sighting of the Indianapolis on the evening she was sunk.

That changed the search area, but still included about 600 square miles.

Such a tragic event.

Thank goodness there were as many survivors as they recovered.

http://www.witnesstowar.org/combat_stories/WWII/1883

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I wont forgive Paul Allen for Windows 7, but this is a good start.

Vista maybe but 7?

[Captain_Quint]

Windows 7 was an acceptable OS

Windows 10 the jury is still deliberating

 

XP was a warhorse that deserves a heroes burial

8, 8.1, and Vista were aberrations that should never be spoken of again

Vista is what I was thinking of. Horrible!

Vista maybe but 7?

Yeah, 7 was good. It was Vista sucked.

I think we need a song.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGVmeeYwEiQw&ved=0ahUKEwjHs6m51OXVAhUDJiYKHQuGCIgQo7QBCCYwBQ&usg=AFQjCNEE4d2AD4qCKuclDELM3H1GfbzL0Q

I always wanted to ask... I guess a good topic to ask: Do you scratch on chalkboards to get a room's attention? For me, the sound drives me wild!

 

;-)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DL0ehUl8Cghw&ved=0ahUKEwiBqPX01OXVAhXLPiYKHVUCCGQQo7QBCBwwAA&usg=AFQjCNEqb3UB54Lxdcpc0CnIbIx5HN9srw

[ExiledInIllinois]

Vista maybe but 7?

Yeah! 7 is so 2009!!!! We are pushing a decade now.

 

I am at work this morning... Still running Windows 7 on our LPMS computer (where our wwww.CorpsLocks.usace.army.mil stuff gets entered). We just got a refresh, a few days ago, for our other workstation...Windows 10. But this LPMS computer is still cranking 7.

 

But back on the topic of the Indianapolis & WWII vessels. I run the lock gates culvert valves with the same exact control handles found on the USS Silversides... A WWII Gato Class submarine.

 

The Gov't, where old technology NEVER dies:

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Check out the relays center... Cloth wiring... Mechancial relays, perfectly routed wiring...Would all be on a PLC today... Probably no different than a WWII era Naval Vessel... Still in use 10s of thousands of times yearly...

 

 

[dib]

Can you imagine what could have happened had the Indy been sunk before delivering the bomb components

[sherpa]

Can you imagine what could have happened had the Indy been sunk before delivering the bomb components

 

Nagasaki.

Components delivered by air.

[dib]

Actually one bomb was slated for Berlin, but lucky for them their war ended before the drop,

[/dev/null]

Can you imagine what could have happened had the Indy been sunk before delivering the bomb components

 

 

Nagasaki.

Components delivered by air.

 

Hiroshima still would have been bombed.

Nagasaki would not have as there was only one bomb

 

And the second bomb is what led to the surrender.

First bomb was a shock, but there's no way they can do that again.

[DC Tom]

Actually one bomb was slated for Berlin, but lucky for them their war ended before the drop,

 

More likely Hamburg. Either was considered...but Hamburg had a distinctive coastline that showed up well on radar for bombing in poor conditions (which, in Northern Europe, was the rule). Berlin was a much, much tougher blind target.

 

But considering that there was no plane in the ETO that could deliver either bomb, and all the B-29 production was headed to Indo-China more than a year before the bomb was ready, it's probably safe to say that neither was ever seriously planned for,

[sherpa]

 

More likely Hamburg. Either was considered...but Hamburg had a distinctive coastline that showed up well on radar for bombing in poor conditions (which, in Northern Europe, was the rule). Berlin was a much, much tougher blind target.

 

But considering that there was no plane in the ETO that could deliver either bomb, and all the B-29 production was headed to Indo-China more than a year before the bomb was ready, it's probably safe to say that neither was ever seriously planned for,

 

Not to quibble, but given the nature of the weapons, I doubt any radar delivery would have been acceptable or approved, and Berlin summers are not too bad.

In addition, Germany was already occupied by Allied forces.

The real goal of these weapons was to prevent the massive casualties resulting in a Japanese mainland invasion.

Edited August 20, 2017 by sherpa

[Nanker]

First torpedo blew off her bow.

Second one slammed her amidships and all power was lost - but the engines were still running.

They couldn't control her or even slow her down, so she just plowed forward without a bow with the sea filling her compartments full force because there was no time to close the water-tight hatches.

[The Poojer]

i really know nothing about this, but i did hear a war buff talking yesterday who said it was a perfectly moonlit night and they even brought in the japanese commander of the sub to the court martial hearing, and i thought i heard him say the commander said zig zagging on that clear of a night would have been completely useless.

 

 

 

It would have helped in that I-58 intercepted her by sheer dumb luck - he surfaced and found Indianapolis in perfect position for an attack. Had Indianapolis been zig-zagging, at the very least she would have been elsewhere when I-58 surfaced.

 

If it would have helped tactically, during the attack...maybe. Plenty of torpedo attacks (sub and surface) in all navies were thrown off by last-minute zigs. But the attack in this case was practically a snapshot - 15-20 minutes from first sighting to firing, and I-58 had a good track on Indianapolis all that time - that it may not have made a difference.

 

Zig-zagging in poor visibility was at the commander's discretion at that time and place, btw. On an overcast night like when Indianapolis was sunk, it wasn't required.

 

It should also be noted that Indianapolis was a pre-war treaty cruiser (build under the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty). As such...well, it basically sucked. Indianapolis wasn't the worst of the bunch, but she was still poorly protected with a high center of gravity (even before the war, but made worse by the enhanced radar and AA fitted to all ships over the course of the war). She was far from being the first US cruiser to have her bow blown completely off by Japanese torpedoes.

[DC Tom]

i really know nothing about this, but i did hear a war buff talking yesterday who said it was a perfectly moonlit night and they even brought in the japanese commander of the sub to the court martial hearing, and i thought i heard him say the commander said zig zagging on that clear of a night would have been completely useless.

 

 

 

Morrison says differently, and he used the official findings and an interview with the Japanese captain. The Indianapolis did manage to somehow get caught in the moonlight under a clear patch of sky when first sighted, though.

 

And zig-zagging was never useless - even regular course changes could throw off tracking data, not to mention complicating pursuit (a sub on the surface was not much faster than a ship at economical cruise speed...submerged, as most were late in the war to avoid radar - forget it.)

[DC Tom]

First torpedo blew off her bow.

Second one slammed her amidships and all power was lost - but the engines were still running.

They couldn't control her or even slow her down, so she just plowed forward without a bow with the sea filling her compartments full force because there was no time to close the water-tight hatches.

 

Electrical power was lost, probably from shock. The boilers and engines kept going.

 

And while the location of the second hit is debated (the first one is pretty conclusive - had her bow torn off. Not uncommon for that class of cruisers), the fact that her engines kept running is a pretty big clue it was at or forward of B turret and not amidships. An amidships hit would have taken out at least an engine and two boilers.

 

You can actually find old battle damage reports online. History.nav.mil has some, as does navsource.com. Never saw one for the Indianapolis, but if you look at some of the charts for other cruisers hit by Japanese torpedoes (e.g. the USS New Orleans, which had 100 feet of her bow blown completely off), you get an idea of how ridiculously powerful Japanese torpedoes were. Japanese doctrine planned for them to be used as long-range weapons to complement gunfire from the battle line, so they were large, heavy, and fast (24", 50kt at 22k yards, compared to 21" and some 35kt at 6k yards for the US - destroyer torpedoes. but the difference in submarine torpedoes was about the same.)

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Morrison says differently, and he used the official findings and an interview with the Japanese captain. The Indianapolis did manage to somehow get caught in the moonlight under a clear patch of sky when first sighted, though.

 

And zig-zagging was never useless - even regular course changes could throw off tracking data, not to mention complicating pursuit (a sub on the surface was not much faster than a ship at economical cruise speed...submerged, as most were late in the war to avoid radar - forget it.)

Maybe I am not following along... But I will throw it out there. Who is Morrison? The only Naval Morrison I've heard of... Was... Would that be THEE Jim Morrison's father?

 

LoL... Just tell me I am an idiot now and get it over with! :-)

 

Morrison says differently, and he used the official findings and an interview with the Japanese captain. The Indianapolis did manage to somehow get caught in the moonlight under a clear patch of sky when first sighted, though.

 

And zig-zagging was never useless - even regular course changes could throw off tracking data, not to mention complicating pursuit (a sub on the surface was not much faster than a ship at economical cruise speed...submerged, as most were late in the war to avoid radar - forget it.)

Maybe I am not following along... But I will throw it out there. Who is Morrison? The only Naval Morrison I've heard of... Was... Would that be THEE Jim Morrison's father?

 

LoL... Just tell me I am an idiot now and get it over with! :-)

[DC Tom]

Maybe I am not following along... But I will throw it out there. Who is Morrison? The only Naval Morrison I've heard of... Was... Would that be THEE Jim Morrison's father?

 

LoL... Just tell me I am an idiot now and get it over with! :-)

 

Maybe I am not following along... But I will throw it out there. Who is Morrison? The only Naval Morrison I've heard of... Was... Would that be THEE Jim Morrison's father?

 

LoL... Just tell me I am an idiot now and get it over with! :-)

 

Samuel Elliot Morrison, official naval historian who wrote the 20-volume history of the US Navy in World War 2. Most sources reference his description of the sinking - I do have one or two other independent sources, but couldn't find them last night.