BringBackOrton Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Do you realize that wins/losses is a team stat? Yes. You are asking for the team to improve enough for TT to win 9-10 games. Hundreds of other QB's have done that. It's not that difficult to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 During his press conference and when discussing his decision to sign a new a deal, Tyrod said his agent talked to other teams during the combine. You believe Tyrod would be here regardless and want to pretend that him being cut unless he signed a new deal is some outlandish opinion with nothing to support it. The reality is that the information we know and common sense tells us that was a likely outcome. Otherwise, why would his agent be gauging the market if his client was not going to be cut regardless of whether he worked out a new deal or not? And I'm not against you but your schtick is getting rather old and tiresome at this point though. It makes this place borderline unreadable at times. I've had this same argument with him. He just wants to spin everything to where it favors Tyrod because he's obsessed with being right about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I've had this same argument with him. He just wants to spin everything to where it favors Tyrod because he's obsessed with being right about him. when its expressed as an opinion I'm not sure why it even matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I don't think my position does hinge on whether the Bills would have released him if he had not renegotiated. The fact that the Bills went to him to try and cut $10m off his salary and halve his contract tells you they don't see him as their QB of the future. Had he refused to accept the paycut and they'd have kept him on his previous terms (unlikely in my opinion but I fully accept I do not know one way or the other) we would not have known that the Bills do not see him as their QB of the future but it wouldn't make it any less true, just less public. You do not go to guys you think are your Quarterback of the future and ask them to halve their contract and give up $10m. I am sorry that is simply not how the NFL works and hence I find it a stretch in logic to get myself to the place others seem to be at. I'm not saying McDermott thinks Taylor is the QB of the future in the way the Seahawks think Wilson is or the Panthers think Newton is or the way the Raiders think Carr is. McDermott obviously is basing his opinion on only what he's seen on tape and in person. Aren't there varying levels of belief in the same way that wagers in Vegas vary in terms of odds? While the Raiders might give Carr 90/10 odds that he's the QB for the next 10 years, maybe McDermott is giving Taylor 60/40 odds. Those are completely arbitrary and random odds and I'm not saying that those are the numbers, but that means that there's more risk that he won't be, but he stands a better chance of being the QB of the future than not, thus McDermott's statements, thus McDermott's statement about Taylor being the QB of the future and also not addressing the position until late in the draft. But McDermott is smart. He's hedging his bets. He doesn't know for sure or have absolute confidence that Taylor is the long term answer, so while he wants to run with a QB he think can be the long term answer, he'll probably determine that relatively quickly... certainly by the end of the season so the team can get in the position in next year's draft if need be to draft a guy. Why ask him to take this new contract and pay cut? Because it was all already setting up for McDermott by the time he arrived in Buffalo. Taylor had already mentioned that he'd consider restructuring and the game was already afoot in the media. Why would a team not want to free up more money for other players if it can while in this process creating a contract and situation where you can be sure you get your franchise QB sooner rather than later if you're wrong? It's not like there's some lasting relationship McDermott is destroying with Taylor. He just started working with him and can mend the relationship as they progress if there are any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yes. You are asking for the team to improve enough for TT to win 9-10 games. Hundreds of other QB's have done that. It's not that difficult to find. Negative I am asking for a defense to improve enough to win a couple more games then they did last year. The offense under Tyrod was 8th in the league in points....IT IS THE DEFENSE THAT HAS GONE DOWN FROM ITS TOP 5 RANKING Tyrod needs to either maintain or get slightly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 “Taylor ranked second in deep ball passer rating in 2015 while Sammy Watkinsaccounted for 48 percent of his deep targets.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 During his press conference and when discussing his decision to sign a new a deal, Tyrod said his agent talked to other teams during the combine. You believe Tyrod would be here regardless and want to pretend that him being cut unless he signed a new deal is some outlandish opinion with nothing to support it. The reality is that the information we know and common sense tells us that was a likely outcome. Otherwise, why would his agent be gauging the market if his client was not going to be cut regardless of whether he worked out a new deal or not? And I'm not against you but your schtick is getting rather old and tiresome at this point though. It makes this place borderline unreadable at times. So don't read my posts if they bother you so much. I'd respond to the rest of that post because I do have responses to it, but it's also clear you don't see any reason when you see that I'm typing it. I understand your position. I respect it. I probably agree with some of it if it were all to be fleshed out at one time. But at this point, it's you and your ilk who are the ones being unreasonable in thinking that you get to decide what are facts and what are opinions. Can you answer the question? Baiting... Do you know how many QB's can and have won 9-10 games? More baiting... just sad... Putting 2 and 2 together is not hard, especially in this scenario. People just want to ignore the information in front of their faces because it goes against things they've been arguing relentlessly. Confirmation bias is very real when it comes to Tyrod. Sorry bro. People are complex. Not everyone operates in the exact same way. Because the human factor is involved in this, this is a lot more speculative than you realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yes. You are asking for the team to improve enough for TT to win 9-10 games. Hundreds of other QB's have done that. It's not that difficult to find. Taylor plays in that Jacksonville game in 2015-9 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) So don't read my posts if they bother you so much. I'd respond to the rest of that post because I do have responses to it, but it's also clear you don't see any reason when you see that I'm typing it. I understand your position. I respect it. I probably agree with some of it if it were all to be fleshed out at one time. But at this point, it's you and your ilk who are the ones being unreasonable in thinking that you get to decide what are facts and what are opinions. Baiting... More baiting... just sad... Sorry bro. People are complex. Not everyone operates in the exact same way. Because the human factor is involved in this, this is a lot more speculative than you realize. You and John both need to learn how to not respond to posts that aren't addressed to you. A sign of the crusades, I suppose. No Taylor post left behind. Edited May 19, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 when its expressed as an opinion I'm not sure why it even matters. This is what's irritating with these posters. They gloss over the fact that I accept their opinions as reasonable but disagree. Apparently they don't realize that message boards are for discussion. Personally, I find discussion most enjoyable when you're able to see different perspectives, even if you don't entirely agree with them. I guess they just want everyone in their party boat where all their opinions are facts. You and John both need to learn how to not respond to posts that aren't addressed to you. A sign of the crusades, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I'm not saying McDermott thinks Taylor is the QB of the future in the way the Seahawks think Wilson is or the Panthers think Newton is or the way the Raiders think Carr is. McDermott obviously is basing his opinion on only what he's seen on tape and in person. Aren't there varying levels of belief in the same way that wagers in Vegas vary in terms of odds? While the Raiders might give Carr 90/10 odds that he's the QB for the next 10 years, maybe McDermott is giving Taylor 60/40 odds. Those are completely arbitrary and random odds and I'm not saying that those are the numbers, but that means that there's more risk that he won't be, but he stands a better chance of being the QB of the future than not, thus McDermott's statements, thus McDermott's statement about Taylor being the QB of the future and also not addressing the position until late in the draft. To me Quarterback of the future means you have your guy and you have stopped looking. This is your guy and you are going to build around him for a decade. If by future you mean the immediate future (ie. 2017 and probably 2018) sure McDermott thinks Tyrod can be that. But if there is any sort of hedging of bets being done that is not a Quarterback of the future to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 You and John both need to learn how to not respond to posts that aren't addressed to you. A sign of the crusades, I suppose. No Taylor post left behind. If you post bull ****....I will call you out on it.....dont cry about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) To me Quarterback of the future means you have your guy and you have stopped looking. This is your guy and you are going to build around him for a decade. If by future you mean the immediate future (ie. 2017 and probably 2018) sure McDermott thinks Tyrod can be that. But if there is any sort of hedging of bets being done that is not a Quarterback of the future to my mind. Kinda a unique situation here, though. The Bills haven't tried to upgrade the position this offseason. It's pretty clearly a "wait and see" approach. You're making definitive statements as though Taylor "is" or "is not" the QB of the future... like the absolute decision is now. McDermott will clearly use the 2017 season to make that final determination. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have or isn't allowed to form thoughts and feelings based on what he's seen so far in Taylor. And based on his statement and then Dennison's comments the other day about Taylor, this looks like Taylor's team and it looks like there's some excitement about his long term prospects amongst them. The entire year in the NBA pretty much everyone said that it would be the Cavs and Warriors in the NBA finals. Sure looks like they were right. That doesn't mean the season and playoffs didn't need to play out. Edited May 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Kinda a unique situation here, though. The Bills haven't tried to upgrade the position this offseason. It's pretty clearly a "wait and see" approach. You're making definitive statements as though Taylor "is" or "is not" the QB of the future... like the absolute decision is now. McDermott will clearly use the 2017 season to make that final determination. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have or isn't allowed to form thoughts and feelings based on what he's seen so far in Taylor. And based on his statement and then Dennison's comments the other day about Taylor, this looks like Taylor's team and it looks like there's some excitement about his long term prospects amongst them. The entire year in the NBA pretty much everyone said that it would be the Cavs and Warriors in the NBA finals. Sure looks like they were right. That doesn't mean the season and playoffs didn't need to play out. Just posted a thread you might find interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 If you post bull ****....I will call you out on it.....dont cry about it Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 ...755 posts would be long gone if we had just cut TT and signed Mahomes..... Sincerely, Secretary for JeffsMagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 You're making definitive statements as though Taylor "is" or "is not" the QB of the future... like the absolute decision is now. The only definitive statement I have made is on how the Bills currently view Tyrod.... which is not as their QB of the future. Are they leaving the option open that he might still become that? Sure. But they don't believe he is now. That has been my argument since I entered this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 The only definitive statement I have made is on how the Bills currently view Tyrod.... which is not as their QB of the future. Are they leaving the option open that he might still become that? Sure. But they don't believe he is now. That has been my argument since I entered this thread. I think this might be accurate even though they have not come right out and said it...... Its a new staff...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 when its expressed as an opinion I'm not sure why it even matters. Would you say the same thing if the opinion was something you agreed with and wanted to hear? Of course not. People don't want to hear Tyrod was probably going to be cut if he didn't re-structure so they try real hard to discredit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) The only definitive statement I have made is on how the Bills currently view Tyrod.... which is not as their QB of the future. Are they leaving the option open that he might still become that? Sure. But they don't believe he is now. That has been my argument since I entered this thread. And I'm saying that McDermott might actually view Tyrod as the QB of the future (let's also remember that those words came out of his mouth almost 2 full months after Taylor restructured his deal, also) now, but has an out if he wants. Edited May 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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