Top NFL QB Prospects for 2018

[The Now Moment]

4 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

But we're talking about a guy who threw 13 TDs and 12 INTs last year. Sure, I guess he can become the next Big Ben and btw, I play guitar, there is a chance I can become the next Jimmy Page.

Did you watch a lot of the games?  He showed some real promise.  Watch more of his games and you'll see just how poor the talent is around him.  He will obviously need to grow but don't just blindly look at stats

Edited December 22, 2017 by Buffalo30

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

18 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Trent Dilfer won a SB, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Brad freaking Johnson. Tons of slightly above average QBs have won. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger type QBs don't grow on trees. I think if those are your standards, you're never going to be happy. I'd kill to have Andy Dalton or the Kansas City version of Alex Smith type QB here. You can win a ring with a slightly above average, solid type QB.

 

 

...PERFECTLY stated.......big hangup around here is THE "franchise QB" but what the hell is it or who?......give me a middle of the pack "steady Eddie" I can depend on to get the W's if he throws for 360 or 160 (BUT can do either as necessary)......this "all or nothing" crap will perpetuate the drought out of definition ignorance....

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Did you watch a lot of the games?  He showed some real promise.  Watch more of his games and you'll see just how poor the talent is around him.  He will obviously need to grow but don't just blindly look at stats

Rudolph played much bigger schools and put up much better numbers. Once again, even if Allen wasn't surrounded with the best talent, he wasn't exactly playing big schools. I find it ironic how you criticize Rudolph because he put up big numbers with a talented roster around him yet you give Allen a pass because he had no talent around him. So what we know is, Allen couldn't dominate with a less talented roster but he could possibly be more productive with a more talented roster. So how does that make him any better than Rudolph? Truth is, we don't even know if Allen would be better with a talented roster around him.

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Rudolph played much bigger schools and put up much better numbers. Once again, even if Allen wasn't surrounded with the best talent, he wasn't exactly playing big schools. I find it ironic how you criticize Rudolph because he put up big numbers with a talented roster around him yet you give Allen a pass because he had no talent around him. So what we know is, Allen couldn't dominate with a less talented roster but he could possibly be more productive with a more talented roster. So how does that make him any better than Rudolph? Truth is, we don't even know if Allen would be better with a talented roster around him.

Rudolph runs a true spread system where he doesn't take snaps under center and short passes turn into huge yardage based on his weapons ability to run after the catch.  His numbers are extremely inflated.  He's tough to evaluate because of that.  The criticism is about the system he runs and the talent that inflates his numbers.  Allen doesn't have anyone inflating his numbers.  Watching the games, Rudolph has a lot of deficiencies, especially in his footwork.  Allen doesn't dominate the production numbers no because he is playing with nothing.  Makes it tough to evaluate as well.  I just see a higher potential with him. He's had an off year and has his own deficiencies but I think they are more correctable than Rudolph's.  I never said Allen was a top talent right now.  I just think he's ahead of Rudolph.  I think Allen should be taken somewhere in the middle of the first round.  He has to go to the right situation that will allow him to sit and be groomed.  

 

Not a fan of Rudolph in the first round

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

Rudolph runs a true spread system where he doesn't take snaps under center and short passes turn into huge yardage based on his weapons ability to run after the catch.  His numbers are extremely inflated.  He's tough to evaluate because of that.  The criticism is about the system he runs and the talent that inflates his numbers.  Allen doesn't have anyone inflating his numbers.  Watching the games, Rudolph has a lot of deficiencies, especially in his footwork.  Allen doesn't dominate the production numbers no because he is playing with nothing.  Makes it tough to evaluate as well.  I just see a higher potential with him. He's had an off year and has his own deficiencies but I think they are more correctable than Rudolph's.  I never said Allen was a top talent right now.  I just think he's ahead of Rudolph.  I think Allen should be taken somewhere in the middle of the first round.  He has to go to the right situation that will allow him to sit and be groomed.  

 

Not a fan of Rudolph in the first round

But if Allen went to a big school, would you be talking about how the talent around him inflated his numbers? It's not fair to say Rudolph dominated because he played for a big program and then pin Allen's lack of success solely on the fact that he played for a small program. Don't you see the irony there?

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

But if Allen went to a big school, would you be talking about how the talent around him inflated his numbers? It's not fair to say Rudolph dominated because he played for a big program and then pin Allen's lack of success solely on the fact that he played for a small program. Don't you see the irony there?

It depends on the system man.  It's the spread system that inflates his numbers.

5 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

But if Allen went to a big school, would you be talking about how the talent around him inflated his numbers? It's not fair to say Rudolph dominated because he played for a big program and then pin Allen's lack of success solely on the fact that he played for a small program. Don't you see the irony there?

I recall a Brandon Weeden who dominated in Mike Gundy's system but didn't work out in the NFL.  Inflated stats...that's the reason for the criticism 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

It depends on the system man.  It's the spread system that inflates his numbers.

Most colleges are not running a pro offense, it makes evaluation difficult but that's just the way it is. It doesn't mean we should disregard every QB that ran a spread offense. 

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Most colleges are not running a pro offense, it makes evaluation difficult but that's just the way it is. It doesn't mean we should disregard every QB that ran a spread offense. 

I think Allen's abilities are better suited for an NFL system than Rudolph's are.  I don't like just looking at what the experts say but they actually agree with that line of thinking. I think Rudolph is a great college QB who will struggle in the NFL.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/21836489/2018-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-preview-background-scouting-reports-pro-fits

 

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

It depends on the system man.  It's the spread system that inflates his numbers.

I recall a Brandon Weeden who dominated in Mike Gundy's system but didn't work out in the NFL.  Inflated stats...that's the reason for the criticism 

 

It did not inflate his 56.2% completion rate at Wyoming. That scares me. 

[Victory Formation]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I think Allen's abilities are better suited for an NFL system than Rudolph's are.  I don't like just looking at what the experts say but they actually agree with that line of thinking. I think Rudolph is a great college QB who will struggle in the NFL.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/21836489/2018-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-preview-background-scouting-reports-pro-fits

 

Could be. My opinion could be completely wrong and I own that. I'm just a draft junkie. CBS has Rudolph rated as their 13th best player ahead of Darnold and Rosen.

https://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings

 

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It did not inflate his 56.2% completion rate at Wyoming. That scares me. 

...because he has terrible talent in the system.  You can't just look at the numbers. He's made some amazing plays and has a great arm.  If coached up properly and put into the right situation, he can be great.  None of the QBs are surefire.  I'd rather take the one with the biggest talent potential and hope our coaches do their job

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Could be. My opinion could be completely wrong and I own that. I'm just a draft junkie. CBS has Rudolph rated as their 13th best player ahead of Darnold and Rosen.

https://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings

 

I am a draft Junkie too.  Do a 4 round draft every year haha.  Love it so much.  My friends think I'm insane but I think it's fun.  I don't like CBS and that's just my opinion as well.  For instance, they have Da'ron Payne at 50 something...that's absurd. Not reliable in my opinion.  

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

...because he has terrible talent in the system.  You can't just look at the numbers. He's made some amazing plays and has a great arm.  If coached up properly and put into the right situation, he can be great.  None of the QBs are surefire.  I'd rather take the one with the biggest talent potential and hope our coaches do their job

 

Before today I’ve only seen him in one game. He one hopped bubble screens like EJ. I’m not saying he can’t be good. I just haven't seen it yet. But there's NO denying he’s got crazy physical tools to work with. 

 

 

PS - This game looks like the dog ate a box of crayons and threw up. 

[The Now Moment]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Before today I’ve only seen him in one game. He one hopped bubble screens like EJ. I’m not saying he can’t be good. I just haven't seen it yet. But there's NO denying he’s got crazy physical tools to work with. 

 

 

PS - This game looks like the dog ate a box of crayons and threw up. 

I can't take the fans who have seen one game and look at his stats and then make a judgement seriously, sorry.  No offence, I just think you need to watch a guy play a lot more to be able to form an opinion.

 

I hate both of these uniforms haha

Edited December 22, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I can't take the fans who have seen one game and look at his stats and then make a judgement seriously, sorry.  No offense, I just think you need to watch a guy play a lot more to be able to form an opinion.

 

I hate both of these uniforms haha

 

I don’t pretend to be an expert, and I don’t apologize for having an opinion based upon what I’ve seen. I saw some horrible accuracy issues under zero pressure. BUT, that was a great TD throw for sure! 

 

Add that field to those uniforms, and it’s a hot mess. 

[The Now Moment]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t pretend to be an expert, and I don’t apologize for having an opinion based upon what I’ve seen. I saw some horrible accuracy issues under zero pressure. BUT, that was a great TD throw for sure! 

 

Add that field to those uniforms, and it’s a hot mess. 

Just a small glimpse of his arm strength.  His second TD showed his accuracy on the run.  He needs some coaching no doubt but the talent is there.

 

Hate blue fields

[NewEraBills]

Allen is playing in the Potato Bowl right now.  He's thrown 3 TD's but color me UNIMPRESSED.  I'm looking for translatable traits and other than his frame and arm I just ughhhh.  I wouldn't mind taking him LATE 1st but he can't start right away.  He's raw.  Certainly shouldn't trade up for him IMO.

 

Now of course I will say, this looks like a regression from last year.  I watched a three of his games last year and he looked better.  But even the Allen of last year to me I wouldn't trade two 1st rd picks to grab him.

Edited December 22, 2017 by NewEraBills

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, NewEraBills said:

Allen is playing in the Potato Bowl right now.  He's thrown 3 TD's but color me UNIMPRESSED.  I'm looking for translatable traits and other than his frame and arm I just ughhhh.  I wouldn't mind taking him LATE 1st but he can't start right away.  He's raw.  Certainly shouldn't trade up for him IMO.

 

Now of course I will say, this looks like a regression from last year.  I watched a three of his games last year and he looked better.  But even the Allen of last year to me I wouldn't trade two 1st rd picks to grab him.

Wait.  Did you say potato bowl?

[GG]

19 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Wait.  Did you say potato bowl?

Not just potato bowl, but Famous Idaho Potato Bowl

[The Now Moment]

4 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

Allen is playing in the Potato Bowl right now.  He's thrown 3 TD's but color me UNIMPRESSED.  I'm looking for translatable traits and other than his frame and arm I just ughhhh.  I wouldn't mind taking him LATE 1st but he can't start right away.  He's raw.  Certainly shouldn't trade up for him IMO.

 

Now of course I will say, this looks like a regression from last year.  I watched a three of his games last year and he looked better.  But even the Allen of last year to me I wouldn't trade two 1st rd picks to grab him.

How did you not see translatable traits in today's game?  His first touchdown was a bullet over the middle on a deep slant.  His second touchdown, he threw a very accurate pass while on the run after avoiding pass rushers.  His third touchdown, he threw a perfect deep ball to a wide receiver in stride.  How were those throws not translatable?  We don't have a guy that can do that now.  His deep middle slant throw was a big time NFL throw.  None of the other QBs in this draft class could make that pass with that type of zip.  His potential is so high.  He needs time to be groomed behind a vet.  I hope we will be patient as a franchise if we get him.  

 

He has taken snaps from under center.  His coach is the same coach that was with Carson Wentz and he has talked about both being in the same light.  He didn't throw that many passes today and still had some outstanding passes.  If he gets coached well, someone will get him playing at that high level on a more consistent basis and I hope it is us.  

 

He had more talent around him last year and everyone who scouts him and talks about him knows that.  He is playing with garbage players.  Don't look at the numbers, look at the potential in his ability.