Studying 5 years of drafts - which NFL teams are best/worst

[BillsFan4]

Or it could be that out of the last 5 years of drafting there were 37 players drafted, only 16 of them remain on the team (that includes 7 from last season.) Only one of those players is really franchise at this point in Glenn. Could argue Watkins but that is still only two players. We only had 4 or 5 starters out of those 16 last season. Some of them more due to necessity rather than being any good. Some of them may not make the roster this season.

 

That's some pretty piss poor drafting. I have no idea how people can sit there and defend/support Whaley. He is one of the worst GMs in the league.

He went 3-1 without his " golden girl" last season and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel.

My point wasn't really to defend Whaley or say I agree or disagree with the rankings. It was that these same ranking had Whaley draft's as 9th best the past 2 years, and I don't see how you legitimately go from them ranking you 9th best drafting team 2 years in a row to 25th best in a single season, especially when they say the 2 previous season are being taken into account.

 

I was saying their ranking methods seemed flawed to me.

[CanadianFan]

Bills 25

Pats 22

Jets 26

Denver 31 (interesting)

http://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studying-5-years-of-nfl-drafts-to-find-best-worst-teams-at-picking/

 

I saw that too. It's a lazy ranking. It doesn't show anything about production of the players drafted. you don't need to draft players who are pro bowl calibre to be successful. More successful teams draft players who are able to play and be productive.

a better ranking would be take the players, the production for each position, give a grade by position and add up the scores all together.

[Kirby Jackson]

Good post that will get over looked. We have won 6,9, 8, & 7 games starting EJ, Orton, & Tyrod. How many more games should we be winning with those qbs?

The problem with this is that Orton (7-5) and Tyrod (15-14) both have winning records as Bills QBs. EJ Manuel is 6-11 with those same teams. I know that you liked EJ and hate those other 2 but he is cleary the outlier in the group. You can't group the 3 together. You can group Tyrod and Orton together but EJ has to go to the scrub pile with Trent Edwards, JP Losman, etc... The Bills have been right around a playoff record with the other two.

[C.Biscuit97]

The problem with this is that Orton (7-5) and Tyrod (15-14) both have winning records as Bills QBs. EJ Manuel is 6-11 with those same teams. I know that you liked EJ and hate those other 2 but he is cleary the outlier in the group. You can't group the 3 together. You can group Tyrod and Orton together but EJ has to go to the scrub pile with Trent Edwards, JP Losman, etc... The Bills have been right around a playoff record with the other two.

Haha. Because I don't think Tyrod is good enough, I hate him? I've met him a few times and he is a really good dude. He certainly is a borderline starter in the NFL and would be a top backup. we have to stop saying if you want to improve on a player that it means you hate them. It's a very simple way to look at things.

 

The point was that i don't think any of those guys are good starters and it is silly to expect more Ws from them. Also, EJ was 6-8 through his first 2 years and his 1st team was the worst roster we had in the last 4 years.

 

And I hate Orton. He is a kitty cat.

[sir andrew]

Pro Bowls should never be part of the consideration in this day and age. Who were the QB's at the Pro Bowl last year?

[Kirby Jackson]

Haha. Because I don't think Tyrod is good enough, I hate him? I've met him a few times and he is a really good dude. He certainly is a borderline starter in the NFL and would be a top backup. we have to stop saying if you want to improve on a player that it means you hate them. It's a very simple way to look at things.

 

The point was that i don't think any of those guys are good starters and it is silly to expect more Ws from them. Also, EJ was 6-8 through his first 2 years and his 1st team was the worst roster we had in the last 4 years.

 

And I hate Orton. He is a kitty cat.

Come on C. Biscuit, you know that you don't like him. It is okay. We all have guys that we like and don't like. You wanted to be right about EJ and unfortunately you weren't. He is your Da'Rick. After that 6-8 start EJ didn't win another game with a better roster is what you are using at the defense? He lost his last 5 starts with a better team? He was an is and awful football player.

Tyrod and Orton are serviceable starters. EJ is 50/50 (at best) to be on a roster this year. They aren't the same. He is much, much closer to Matt Cassel than the other 2.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[C.Biscuit97]

Come on C. Biscuit, you know that you don't like him. It is okay. We all have guys that we like and don't like. You wanted to be right about EJ and unfortunately you weren't. He is you Da'Rick. After that 6-8 start EJ didn't win another game with a better roster is what you are using at the defense? He lost his last 5 starts with a better team? He was an is and awful football player.

Tyrod and Orton are serviceable starters. EJ is 50/50 (at best) to be on a roster this year. They aren't the same. He is much, much closer to Matt Cassel than the other 2.

I don't know why Tyrod "fans" (again this is silly because I am fan of all Bills who aren't scumbags) think you hate him if you don't think he is good enough. I just don't think he is as good as you do and I try to make reason points why. I watch the all 22s and used YAC to illustrate him being inaccurate. You and his "fans" will blame the coaches and receivers, I think it is more on him than you want to admit. I think he is a borderline NFL starter and I want to do better than struggling to get 200 yards passing a game in a league where they beg you to pass. I guess that means I hate him. You're my boy but I think that is a very silly point.

 

That said, I definitely gave EJ more slack. I think his development sucked and Tyrod got developed much better. I also like bigger qbs who try to win from the pocket. And if Tyrod was drafted by us and a young guy, I'd give him more slack. But he is entering his 7th year. Based on his college career, he actually has probably reached his ceiling if not past it. So he is a success but I don't think there is anywhere else for him to go. I look at Dak Prescott looking like a much better passer in his rookie year than Tyrod has ever looked, even when he didn't have Dak. I want better and don't want to go 7-9 or 8-8 because it's worthless

 

And I'd love to be wrong on Tyrod and him to lead us to the playoffs. I will start a thread saying how wrong I am. I would love to. But I'm just a hater!

[Kirby Jackson]

I don't know why Tyrod "fans" (again this is silly because I am fan of all Bills who aren't scumbags) think you hate him if you don't think he is good enough. I just don't think he is as good as you do and I try to make reason points why. I watch the all 22s and used YAC to illustrate him being inaccurate. You and his "fans" will blame the coaches and receivers, I think it is more on him than you want to admit. I think he is a borderline NFL starter and I want to do better than struggling to get 200 yards passing a game in a league where they beg you to pass. I guess that means I hate him. You're my boy but I think that is a very silly point.

 

That said, I definitely gave EJ more slack. I think his development sucked and Tyrod got developed much better. I also like bigger qbs who try to win from the pocket. And if Tyrod was drafted by us and a young guy, I'd give him more slack. But he is entering his 7th year. Based on his college career, he actually has probably reached his ceiling if not past it. So he is a success but I don't think there is anywhere else for him to go. I look at Dak Prescott looking like a much better passer in his rookie year than Tyrod has ever looked, even when he didn't have Dak. I want better and don't want to go 7-9 or 8-8 because it's worthless

 

And I'd love to be wrong on Tyrod and him to lead us to the playoffs. I will start a thread saying how wrong I am. I would love to. But I'm just a hater!

I am not going to derail the thread but you simply overestimated EJ while underappreciating Tyrod. It may not be intentional but you definitely come across as a hater. It is odd to me because you were okay with the guy that couldn't produce but adamant that the guy that has been okay needs to be replaced? When I look at things like struggling to get 200 yards that is absolutely a function of attempts. At his career average of 7.4 YPA and 35 attempts a game (the 22nd most last year) you are looking at 259 passing yards a game. My estimations have him dropping a 1/2 YPA but throwing 6 more times and all of a sudden you are at 240 yards a game and the middle of the league. He is and has been more productive than guys like Tannehill, Smith and even Flacco over the last couple of years. That is a serviceable level of play that some think you can get from anybody. The Bills haven't had that since 8 games of Bledsoe and maybe back to Flutie.

 

I don't think that Tyrod is perfect but think that he is an okay starter in a league where that is VERY difficult to find. I have said that I am more than comfortable moving on from him but only for a guy that has a high floor and ceiling. If you are telling me that the worst case scenario is Tannehill (a slight downgrade) but the upside is Rodgers, sign me up. That guy is definitely not in this class. I believe that there are a couple of guys right now in 2018 that fit that (Darnold and Rosen). I am not going to aimlessly throw darts at the QB board to get a guy when the guy that I have has led a top 10 offense 2 years in a row and was 7th in scoring through 16 weeks. The Bills lost 6 games last year scoring 24 points. The rest of the AFC playoff teams lost 4 combined. That wasn't a result of "the QB sucks" it was a result of Rex/Rob and their scheme does. The offense put them in position to be a playoff team and the defense failed.

[Real McClappy]

Belichik all but admitted they haven't drafted well. I don't think he's even going to debate that.

Do the Pats have 2 when we farm them all our half decent players?

[Kirby Jackson]

Do the Pats have 2 when we farm them all our half decent players?

Who needs to draft well when you can buy Scott Chandler in FA? Edited April 24, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[YoloinOhio]

Do the Pats have 2 when we farm them all our half decent players?

"all" our half decent players Hyperbole much

 

Clearly I've stated why they don't "need to," but they are in their own universe right now.

Edited April 24, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Real McClappy]

"all" our half decent players Hyperbole much

 

Clearly I've stated why they don't "need to," but they are in their own universe right now.

 

Hogan - Will go over 1K receiving yards and makes the Pro bowl

Gilly - 1200 all purpose yards and makes the Pro bowl

Gilmore - 8 picks, top 5 corner and makes the Pro bowl.

 

Whatever BB Pats touches turns to gold mang......

 

Pats win Super Bowl LII

 

My Cleo is strong... Yeah MoN!

Edited April 24, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Hogan - will go over 1K receiving and make the pro bowl

Gilly - 1200 all purpose yards and make the pro bowl

Gilmore - 8 picks and a top 5 corner and makes the pro bowl.

 

Whatever BB Pats touch turns to gold mang......

 

Pats win Super Bowl LII

 

My Cleo is strong... Yeah MoN!

So the 38 catches Hogan had last year will go up a lot with Cooks in the fold? We should expect 320 more yards now too? Got it

 

How did Chandler do in his Pro Bowl year with BB?

 

Gillislee to the Pro Bowl and Gilmore too?

[teef]

 

Hogan - Will go over 1K receiving yards and makes the Pro bowl

Gilly - 1200 all purpose yards and makes the Pro bowl

Gilmore - 8 picks, top 5 corner and makes the Pro bowl.

 

Whatever BB Pats touches turns to gold mang......

 

Pats win Super Bowl LII

 

My Cleo is strong... Yeah MoN!

come on now...

[CanadianFan]

NY Post ranking is based on pro-bowls and wins based on their own criteria. I have used pro-football reference to look at production of players drafted to come up with a slightly better ranking. Thus whether you are selected to the pro-bowl or not, if your production bears out, it gets reflected in the grades.

 

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/193447-nfl-draft-team-ranking-2012-2016/

[Scott7975]

Good post that will get over looked. We have won 6,9, 8, & 7 games starting EJ, Orton, & Tyrod. How many more games should we be winning with those qbs?

 

It's hilarious how hard people make team building seem to be. It starts and ends with a qb. I don't think Tyrod is good enough long term but that's about as good of a qb you can hope to get in free agency, barring a major injury. And the draft is a complete crapshoot. If Whaley gets a franchise qb, he will be viewed as one of the best GMs in the NFL.

 

Matt Cassell took the Chiefs to the playoffs and they won 5 less games with him than with Brady.

 

You kidding yourself if You don't think Brady isn't a major reason for the Pats success. That said, they get a ton of draft picks and hope to get lucky.

I know Brady is a major reason for the Pats success. That wasn't my argument. The person I quoted said that Belichick would have a sub .500 record without Brady. That may be true but he already shown he could win games without him. 11-5 and 3-1 the last two times.

[Rochesterfan]

The pats are self-aware that they don't draft well but Bill isn't firing himself from his role in personnel and his circle of trust won't let him replace Caserio, who does other FO stuff rather well. That's why they tinker around with trades and FA so much. They'd rather just bring in guys already in the league who they have pro film on because it is less projection and more production based decision making. Their advantage is that FAs flock there and many will play for less. If they won't then Bill doesn't want them. No one else really has that ability.

 

 

This is exactly right. They have struggled drafting most positions and would prefer guys with NFL experience that they know fit.

 

The pats have one main advantage over everyone else - They have an Elite QB that gets paid under the table - so he can take less than everyone else and has a huge income wife - so they do not need the extra funds - because of that they can overpay at other positions and they (just like the 90's Bills) get people to come and play for less.

 

The Bills drafting has not been that bad, but the change of coaches and styles has impacted people they have kept on this roster. The hiring of Rex and the thought that they had a set defense - allowed them to take a run at a lot of FAs and they allowed several people to walk away. Some of those guys like Cockrell are starting on other teams because of the coaching changes.

[Scott7975]

 

 

This is exactly right. They have struggled drafting most positions and would prefer guys with NFL experience that they know fit.

 

The pats have one main advantage over everyone else - They have an Elite QB that gets paid under the table - so he can take less than everyone else and has a huge income wife - so they do not need the extra funds - because of that they can overpay at other positions and they (just like the 90's Bills) get people to come and play for less.

 

The Bills drafting has not been that bad, but the change of coaches and styles has impacted people they have kept on this roster. The hiring of Rex and the thought that they had a set defense - allowed them to take a run at a lot of FAs and they allowed several people to walk away. Some of those guys like Cockrell are starting on other teams because of the coaching changes.

I would add that they don't really need to overpay in FA because good players sign cheap contracts there looking to win a ring before they retire.