Trump's Request For Voters Information (changed topic)

[HappyDays]

Are you now claiming that there is no voter fraud?

Are you claiming there IS voter fraud, the likes of which requires a national voter registry and heavy voter ID laws to prevent? If so, the burden is on you. Voting is a fundamental right. If you want to limit or infringe on it, you need to show good cause.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Are you claiming there IS voter fraud, the likes of which requires a national voter registry and heavy voter ID laws to prevent? If so, the burden is on you. Voting is a fundamental right. If you want to limit or infringe on it, you need to show good cause.

 

Asking for a registry or ID is NOT voter rights infringement. It's common sense.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Are you claiming there IS voter fraud, the likes of which requires a national voter registry and heavy voter ID laws to prevent? If so, the burden is on you. Voting is a fundamental right. If you want to limit or infringe on it, you need to show good cause.

No, voting is not a fundamental right. Voting is a privilege bestowed on certain classes of individuals, restricted from others, by societies organized democratically.

 

The very nature of the vote is dependent itself on the prior existence of government; and as such cannot be a right.

 

The sole purpose of a Nation State is for the protection of the property and culture of the people who form it; with this in mind, your view of voting is backwards.

 

The Nation State, with this mission it has been entrusted with in mind, has the duty to restrict the franchise to those individuals with whom it's mission aligns, which at a minimum standard means restricting in to eligible citizens; and with that stated, there is no point to having a standard if it is not enforced.

Edited July 19, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[Azalin]

 

Asking for a registry or ID is NOT voter rights infringement. It's common sense.

 

Hell, I have to show my ID every time I vote here in Texas. It's not an inconvenience at all - in fact, we all get a good laugh at how crappy my photo is.

[26CornerBlitz]

It's hardly a miniscule issue, regardless of President Trump's thin skin, or need to be popular.

 

Source for me the comprehensive studies done on the issue saying that it's insignificant.

 

The facts of the issue: that political power is valuable, and that politicians and political parties are internally self-serving and largely corrupt.

 

There is reason to believe that individuals driven to consolidate power would seek to do so by any means that they can get away with.

 

Why is that so difficult for you to believe?

 

State election boards are all on the record saying it's not a major issue that calls for the formation and collection of voter information by the Chumptser's so called Voter Integrity Group.

[Magox]

Are you claiming there IS voter fraud, the likes of which requires a national voter registry and heavy voter ID laws to prevent? If so, the burden is on you. Voting is a fundamental right. If you want to limit or infringe on it, you need to show good cause.

 

Is requiring a photo ID to vote considered "Heavy voter ID laws" in your eyes?

[B-Man]

So here’s the chaser to all of the shots this afternoon about the inaugural meeting of the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity … you know, the hot takes on how Republicans keep insisting voter fraud is a problem just as an excuse to further pursue their “voter suppression”........................... efforts, like photo ID.

Washington Post‏

Verified account @washingtonpost

Postal Service broke law in pushing time off for workers to campaign for Clinton, investigation finds

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/postal-service-broke-law-in-pushing-time-off-for-workers-to-campaign-for-clinton-investigation-finds/2017/07/19/3292741c-6ca0-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.1a5f8df24f8c

 

The U.S. Postal Service engaged in widespread violations of federal law by pressuring managers to approve letter carriers’ taking time off last fall to campaign for Hillary Clinton and other union-backed Democrats, investigators said Wednesday.

High-level postal officials had for years granted employees’ requests for unpaid leave, leading last year to an “institutional bias” in favor of Clinton and other Democrats endorsed by the National Association of Letter Carriers, one of the largest postal unions. The Postal Service’s Office of Special Counsel and inspector general found that the agency violated the Hatch Act, which restricts federal employees from working for or against a political candidate or party during election season.

“The culture and practice was, ‘It’s mandatory, it’s the directive’ ” to ensure employees got time off, Adam Miles, acting director of the Office of Special Counsel, told Senate lawmakers at a hearing.

Edited July 20, 2017 by B-Man

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

State election boards are all on the record saying it's not a major issue that calls for the formation and collection of voter information by the Chumptser's so called Voter Integrity Group.

You don't see any possible conflicts of interest there? No reason to call in to question the reliability of these groups? What are they basing their positions on?

[26CornerBlitz]

You don't see any possible conflicts of interest there? No reason to call in to question the reliability of these groups? What are they basing their positions on?

 

The entire issue is "trumped" up fake news: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/resources-voter-fraud-claims

 

Credible research and investigation demonstrates fraud by voters at the polls is exceedingly rare.

June 26, 2017

The incidence of voter fraud has been studied numerous times. The consensus from credible research and investigation is that the rate of illegal voting is extremely rare, and the incidence of certain types of fraud – such as impersonating another voter – is virtually nonexistent. This page provides resources of several types:

• Studies and analyses on the prevalence of voter impersonation fraud
• Studies and analyses on the prevalence of noncitizen or nonresident voting
• Studies and analyses on fraud claims predicated on list matching methods
• Studies and analyses on fraud claims predicated on voter list maintenance issues
• Court findings on the frequency of voter fraud
• Sources on government investigations aimed at uncovering voter fraud

 

Bottom line is it's a bunch of Bolshevik!

[Benjamin Franklin]

Are you claiming there IS voter fraud, the likes of which requires a national voter registry and heavy voter ID laws to prevent? If so, the burden is on you. Voting is a fundamental right. If you want to limit or infringe on it, you need to show good cause.

 

Showing ID is infringing on the right? Get a grip. I have to show ID in a million situations and I'd be happy to do it when voting, as should anyone.

 

I've said here before that this is an easy thing to roll out. You put enforcement in place in say 4 years. Every election between now and 4 years, you ask for the ID and people who don't have it can still vote but they get told that in 2019 on, no more voting without ID.

 

That way voters get a warning so no one is surprised.

 

Such a simple idea. The "infringe on the voting right" argument is absurd. Really.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

The entire issue is "trumped" up fake news: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/resources-voter-fraud-claims

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom line is it's a bunch of Bolshevik!

This sounds like global warming "consensus "

[CookieG]

It's hardly a miniscule issue, regardless of President Trump's thin skin, or need to be popular.

 

Source for me the comprehensive studies done on the issue saying that it's insignificant.

 

The facts of the issue: that political power is valuable, and that politicians and political parties are internally self-serving and largely corrupt.

 

There is reason to believe that individuals driven to consolidate power would seek to do so by any means that they can get away with.

 

Why is that so difficult for you to believe?

 

 

I suppose the collection of research at hte Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law isn't enough.

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/resources-voter-fraud-claims

 

But the investigation(s) by the vice-chair of this committee should be more than enough.

 

In 2015, the Kansas Legislature granted Kris Kobach a unique power...the independent power to prosecute for voter fraud. This was enacted after he complained to the Legislature that 1) voter fraud was wide spread in the state and 2) Prosecutors were refusing to bring such cases (a claim the US Attorney in Wichita took exception to and demanded evidence that Kobach sent ANY such cases to his office).

 

After 2 years...;

in a state with more than 1.6 million registered voters;

with investigations going back to at least 2010;

over 7 annual elections;

where Kobach has had total control over who to prosecute;

 

he's up to 9 convictions, I think. maybe 8, maybe 10..

 

of those convictions, 1 was a noncitizen, who was in the process of gaining citizenship.

 

The others were people with dual residency in Kansas and another state. They voted in both states. Most, if not all explained they thought they could...i don't know if any were shown to have voted for a common candidate, (e.g. the President) when they voted in 2 states. Those convicted paid a $1000 fine in most cases.

 

I'll repeat those numbers..

 

1.6 million voters

7 years

9 people caught

 

the sample size is there

the length of the "study" is there..

the claims of bias are eliminated

 

There are probably more instances of 80 year old prostitutes than there is cases of voter fraud.

 

The vice chair has no credibility on this issue..none.

[boyst]

 

State election boards are all on the record saying it's not a major issue that calls for the formation and collection of voter information by the Chumptser's so called Voter Integrity Group.

you said trump was lying but then said it was a minuscule issue.

 

soooo

 

what is it?

 

you're a joke, you fool, you're worse than tiberius

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

The entire issue is "trumped" up fake news: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/resources-voter-fraud-claims

 

 

Bottom line is it's a bunch of Bolshevik!

 

Again: That's not a comprehensive study, and it doesn't explain away the results of research done by Harvard, Old Dominion, and an audit done by the State of North Carolina which found that 14% of the registered voter citizen cases they examined (a count of 10,000) were likely non-citizens.

 

It's important to note that there studies aren't comprehensive either. They only examine one aspect of voter fraud.

[row_33]

Pennsylvania refused to release results until well past midnight when they could no longer hold out pretending it wasn't going GOP. Reports laughed saying "that's how it goes with Philly."

[26CornerBlitz]

Again: That's not a comprehensive study, and it doesn't explain away the results of research done by Harvard, Old Dominion, and an audit done by the State of North Carolina which found that 14% of the registered voter citizen cases they examined (a count of 10,000) were likely non-citizens.

 

It's important to note that there studies aren't comprehensive either. They only examine one aspect of voter fraud.

 

I have yet to see any real study or hard evidence that this is a real issue worth any serious consideration and I certainly wouldn't trust any audit done by the state of NC after they tried to enact a biased voter id law that was struck down: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/15/528457693/supreme-court-declines-republican-bid-to-revive-north-carolina-voter-id-law

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

I have yet to see any real study or hard evidence that this is a real issue worth any serious consideration and I certainly wouldn't trust any audit done by the state of NC after they tried to enact a biased voter id law that was struck down: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/15/528457693/supreme-court-declines-republican-bid-to-revive-north-carolina-voter-id-law

I just linked you two of them, both of which set out with the intention of disproving the voter fraud narrative, along with noting a state audit.

 

As to your assertions about North Carolina, this is nothing more than evidence that when race pimps want to find racism, they'll find it; and not because it actually exists, but because they need it to exist.

 

Because those reforms impacted blacks more than other racial groups does not mean they were targeted, nor does the fact that race data was studied mean that it was studied with the intent of disenfranchising. It's far more likely that this data was sought out in order that the NC legislature could seek to minimize racial impacts if possible; but decided that the realities of disparate impact did not outweigh protecting the vote.

 

The truth is that those behaviors the bill sought to target are clearly areas which lend themselves to voter fraud; and your position that it does long term intentional harm to blacks is really more of a testimony about your own view of blacks, whom you apparently feel aren't smart enough, resourceful enough, or engaged enough to vote in ways the law would permit.

 

It must be absolutely exhausting walking through life with your world view, constantly looking behind fences and under rocks for racists who don't exist who are seeking to do harm on an institutional level.

Edited July 20, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[26CornerBlitz]

I just linked you two of them, both of which set out with the intention of disproving the voter fraud narrative, along with noting a state audit.

 

As to your assertions about North Carolina, this is nothing more than evidence that when race pimps want to find racism, they'll find it; and not because it actually exists, but because they need it to exist.

 

Because those reforms impacted blacks more than other racial groups does not mean they were targeted, nor does the fact that race data was studied mean that it was studied with the intent of disenfranchising. It's far more likely that this data was sought out in order that the NC legislature could seek to minimize racial impacts if possible; but decided that the realities of disparate impact did not outweigh protecting the vote.

 

It must be absolutely exhausting walking through life with your world view, constantly looking behind fences and under rocks for racists who don't exist who are seeking to do harm on an institutional level.

 

My world view has nothing to do with it. The issue was adjudicated by the judicial branch who had those findings. It all seems like crafting a solution when no problem exists.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

My world view has nothing to do with it. The issue was adjudicated by the judicial branch who had those findings. It all seems like crafting a solution when no problem exists.

In your opinion, would you say the judicial branch is infallible, and that judges never seek to legislate their own politics from the bench?

 

And it would only seem like a solution seeking a problem to someone rejecting data that they don't want to admit exists.

[26CornerBlitz]

In your opinion, would you say the judicial branch is infallible, and that judges never seek to legislate their own politics from the bench?

 

And it would only seem like a solution seeking a problem to someone rejecting data that they don't want to admit exists.

 

The judicial branch as a co-equal part of our democracy is certainly not immune from the human element, so of course it happens on both the left and right.

 

Let me know when we see people convicted as a result of the likelihood that was discussed from the data in the studies you linked.

Speaking of rejection, you have no problem refuting the many sources I linked that show it's a non issue and of course you did because you don't like the conclusion.