P51 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 He's got Kizer ranked #1? What an idiot. The only way to get to that conclusion is if you value mechanics over game tape. Kizer is EJ. His mechanics aren't good either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) ...by all other accounts, a serious head scratcher......a Top 10 team ended up 4-8......blame it on Touchdown Jesus I guess............ND fan here. It's not Kizer's fault. Brian Kelly had one of the most sh*tty coaching performances week in and week out that I have ever witnessed. The offensive game plans were sh*t, the defensive game plans were sh*t, hell, even the ST was sh*t. The only thing I could rival it to is when we went 3-9 under Charlie Weis. It was that bad. Kelly should have been fired. Not only for the on field product, but for how he threw his young men under the bus on numerous occasions. A complete d*ck. Can't stand him. On to Kizer. He can make all the throws and accurately. Coming from the Spread his footwork will be the challenge. The one worry about him is because he would not see open guys sometimes and choose instead to force a ball where it did not belong. I don't know if that is because of how Kelly had him running the offense or if he just doesn't see the whole field consistently. He reminds me of Donovan McNabb. That is the QB he reminds me of the most. Edited March 21, 2017 by H2o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Nice. Maybe they should take a tackle at 10. The right side of the line is really bad. Kizer reminds me way too much of EJ Manuel. I hope they dont take a QB in this draft. Really bad class. I'm in the club that says we should keep drafting QBs until we find one we can build a team around. Personally, I think we should draft a QB every other year. And, in my mind, this is the off year. Between it being a weak QB class and the many other pressing needs we have, I hope we wait until 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 He has the Alabama Tackle as interior (#2 rated), which I don't agree with. He can play tackle in the NFL. Mayock had the same sentiment on Cordy Glenn coming into the NFL as well I remember. Not surprisingly, I've seen people make the comparison between Cam Robinson and Cordy Glenn as prospects coming out of college. Here's a nice little video on Cam Robinson, I too think he would make for a good RT: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 with him being below 6 feet he's small for a Safety. At the very least should be a good return man but I don't want the Bills to draft him. Earl 5'10" Thomas and Tyrann 5'9" Mathieu say hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Earl 5'10" Thomas and Tyrann 5'9" Mathieu say hello.Berry and Vaccaro are exactly 6'0 if that counts. But I mean you look at a guy like Karl Joseph who is 5-10 and was a first rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 They mentioned on nfl network that mayock would re-order the qbs as necessary after all their pro days were complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I think Mayock at least puts these guys in the right universe. I trust him the most on offensive line and defensive line. Mayock was a rabid JJ Watt fan. Mayock hasn't been good on QBs recently. I do think the first four will be Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, and Kizer with a chance for Webb to jump Kizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 About the kerfuffle about Mayock having Kizer first of the QBs, keep in mind he doesn't think any of them are top 10 and maybe not even first round worthy. In that light, he feels that Kizer is the best of a flawed bunch and the one with the most long-term upside. I know, I know, plenty of people around here believe Watson or Trubisky or even Mahomes are "can't miss" prospects. Mayock doesn't. I trust his judgment more than the fan's judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) ND fan here. It's not Kizer's fault. Brian Kelly had one of the most sh*tty coaching performances week in and week out that I have ever witnessed. The offensive game plans were sh*t, the defensive game plans were sh*t, hell, even the ST was sh*t. The only thing I could rival it to is when we went 3-9 under Charlie Weis. It was that bad. Kelly should have been fired. Not only for the on field product, but for how he threw his young men under the bus on numerous occasions. A complete d*ck. Can't stand him. On to Kizer. He can make all the throws and accurately. Coming from the Spread his footwork will be the challenge. The one worry about him is because he would not see open guys sometimes and choose instead to force a ball where it did not belong. I don't know if that is because of how Kelly had him running the offense or if he just doesn't see the whole field consistently. He reminds me of Donovan McNabb. That is the QB he reminds me of the most. ....thanks for your assessment.....not sure why Kelly is still there.....maybe still paying or just finishing paying Charlie Weiss still hurts.....several draft "pundits" said Kizer should not have come out, saying another year would have been better....what do you think?.....other than Montana who ironically was a 3rd, not much has developed even with Meier going #2 in 1993......we'll skip over Jimmy Pickle in the 2nd of 2010 to save embarrassment.....same for Brady Quinn in the 1st for 2007........... Edited March 22, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 About the kerfuffle about Mayock having Kizer first of the QBs, keep in mind he doesn't think any of them are top 10 and maybe not even first round worthy. In that light, he feels that Kizer is the best of a flawed bunch and the one with the most long-term upside. I know, I know, plenty of people around here believe Watson or Trubisky or even Mahomes are "can't miss" prospects. Mayock doesn't. I trust his judgment more than the fan's judgment. Mayock talks to NFL teams. He doesn't have special authority other than having more inside information than the average fan on how NFL teams feel on the prospects. Quarterback 1. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida 3. Derek Carr, Fresno State 4. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois T-5. Zach Mettenberger, LSU T-5. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville Now Shanahan had Carr and Garoppolo on top that year. So there are people that know more than Mayock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Mayock talks to NFL teams. He doesn't have special authority other than having more inside information than the average fan on how NFL teams feel on the prospects. Quarterback 1. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida 3. Derek Carr, Fresno State 4. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois T-5. Zach Mettenberger, LSU T-5. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville Now Shanahan had Carr and Garoppolo on top that year. So there are people that know more than Mayock. ...interesting find......especially #1( repulsive).......would be interesting to see Greg Cosell's assessment for the same period.....he is usually pretty good......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 ...interesting find......especially #1( repulsive).......would be interesting to see Greg Cosell's assessment for the same period.....he is usually pretty good......... I think Cosell is interesting but some of his stuff is analysis paralysis. He wrote that Trubisky has a serious flaw in his front leg that will prevent accuracy in the NFL. I talked to someone I know that coaches in college. When I asked about the Trubisky leg he just went into a squat motion and started to simulate throwing a football. In other words, Cosell sees things but doesn't always see the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I think Cosell is interesting but some of his stuff is analysis paralysis. He wrote that Trubisky has a serious flaw in his front leg that will prevent accuracy in the NFL. I talked to someone I know that coaches in college. When I asked about the Trubisky leg he just went into a squat motion and started to simulate throwing a football. In other words, Cosell sees things but doesn't always see the big picture. .....thanks for sharing your connections....."front leg flaw"?......LMAO....paralysis by analysis.......wonder what he thought of Billy Kilmer's "wounded ducks" wind up??......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 .....thanks for sharing your connections....."front leg flaw"?......LMAO....paralysis by analysis.......wonder what he thought of Billy Kilmer's "wounded ducks" wind up??......... My friend also is friends with someone that is Director of College Scouting for an NFL team. A team known for drafting great QB's. That's why when he talks I listen. He had Dak Prescott #2 on his board last year after Wentz. He sold me on Mahomes this year as he said Mahomes will be better than Dak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 ....thanks for your assessment.....not sure why Kelly is still there.....maybe still paying or just finishing paying Charlie Weiss still hurts.....several draft "pundits" said Kizer should not have come out, saying another year would have been better....what do you think?.....other than Montana who ironically was a 3rd, not much has developed even with Meier going #2 in 1993......we'll skip over Jimmy Pickle in the 2nd of 2010 to save embarrassment.....same for Brady Quinn in the 1st for 2007........... Kelly is only there because he just signed an extension. If he has another bad year, or even if they stumble out of the gate, I think he gets canned. I think Kizer needs to be refined, but the talent is there. I also think he made the right move getting away from Kelly. Kelly would do nothing, but try to ruin him further. Business wise it was likely smarter to come out this year as well. Weaker class likely = a better draft position than if he had stayed until 2018. All it takes is for one team to fall in love you, that's it. As far as his long term prospects go? I think it will depend on who drafts him. I think the 3 best places for him would be San Fran, Arizona, or KC. Shanahan, Arians, or Reid would be excellent for him. I also think he might do well here in a Kubiak\Dennison type of offense. He won't last past the 2nd though so I don't want us to take him. Would rather go WR\CB or CB\WR in rounds 1&2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Kelly is only there because he just signed an extension. If he has another bad year, or even if they stumble out of the gate, I think he gets canned. I think Kizer needs to be refined, but the talent is there. I also think he made the right move getting away from Kelly. Kelly would do nothing, but try to ruin him further. Business wise it was likely smarter to come out this year as well. Weaker class likely = a better draft position than if he had stayed until 2018. All it takes is for one team to fall in love you, that's it. As far as his long term prospects go? I think it will depend on who drafts him. I think the 3 best places for him would be San Fran, Arizona, or KC. Shanahan, Arians, or Reid would be excellent for him. I also think he might do well here in a Kubiak\Dennison type of offense. He won't last past the 2nd though so I don't want us to take him. Would rather go WR\CB or CB\WR in rounds 1&2. ...thanks for the solid assessment!!...I don't get to see collegiate ball and depend upon folks like you for valuable insight...nicely done....as an aside, went out to ND in 1976 for Pitt game with Dorsett as their featured RB....dammit, Montana was on IR.....Tony off tackle for 61 yd TD and that was it....think it was 31-14 Pitt.....had Bloody Mary's at the Morris Inn with CBS' Don Criqui...went to dinner the night before game and Ross Browner was there with Willie Fry......behemoths..... Edited March 22, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Murica Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 ....thanks for your assessment.....not sure why Kelly is still there.....maybe still paying or just finishing paying Charlie Weiss still hurts.....several draft "pundits" said Kizer should not have come out, saying another year would have been better....what do you think?.....other than Montana who ironically was a 3rd, not much has developed even with Meier going #2 in 1993......we'll skip over Jimmy Pickle in the 2nd of 2010 to save embarrassment.....same for Brady Quinn in the 1st for 2007........... He would have had to transfer to another program. Kelly has Brandon Wimbush taking over next season. Might have not been a bad thing for Kizer to stay an extra year but he seems like a good kid and has a good head on his shoulders, wouldn't put it past him if it was a loyalty factor to his decision and not wanting to play somewhere else. He had one good year on tape when he had NFL caliber players playing with him and his following season he had no one to throw too and the offensive line didn't have anymore Martin brothers to plug in. Follow Notre Dame closely, family members are alumni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 He would have had to transfer to another program. Kelly has Brandon Wimbush taking over next season. Might have not been a bad thing for Kizer to stay an extra year but he seems like a good kid and has a good head on his shoulders, wouldn't put it past him if it was a loyalty factor to his decision and not wanting to play somewhere else. He had one good year on tape when he had NFL caliber players playing with him and his following season he had no one to throw too and the offensive line didn't have anymore Martin brothers to plug in. Follow Notre Dame closely, family members are alumni. The OL was complete sh*t. For all of 4 and 5 star recruits he gets for the OL, Kelly sure as hell can't coach them up. Kelly would have started Kizer this year if he had stayed as well I believe. He learned his lesson last year with the Kizer/Zaire bs hopefully. Wimbush would have had to hold on for one more year. I think he just made the best business and personal decision for himself by leaving. I do like the WR group, I just think they are young. St. Brown, Stepherson, Holmes, and Hunter was the Senior man. They did have at least 25 dropped passes that I can remember. It would be at least 2 well thrown balls a game that hit the dirt. A handful would have been easy TD's. If you factor in the drops his completion % is aroung 65%. If you have an OL that gives him a pocket he makes more plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 They did have at least 25 dropped passes that I can remember. It would be at least 2 well thrown balls a game that hit the dirt. A handful would have been easy TD's. If you factor in the drops his completion % is aroung 65%. I have the PFF Draft guide (which is REALLY good, by the way). They had Kizer suffering 21 drops at a 5.8% drop rate. Higher than Watson, Mahomes & Trubisky. Kizer's adjusted completion rate was 68% (ruling out drops, throw-aways etc.) which was way behind the other top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts