jeffismagic Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Shhhh, don't tell Jeff he's in the zone. Do you ever post anything on football? Or was the Mahomes can't throw a screen pass the best gem we will get from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Well....im gonna just stick up for Jeff and say I actually like Mahomes (ducks under desk) Its ok to like Mahomes...he is an intriguing prospect. There are players I like up and down this draft, no crime in liking a player. Personally, I find Chad Kelly's tape a lot more interesting than Mahomes and would much prefer grabbing him in the 5th than using a 2nd round pick on Mahomes (no way we pick any QB at 10 IMO, not even Trubisky if he falls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Its ok to like Mahomes...he is an intriguing prospect. There are players I like up and down this draft, no crime in liking a player. Personally, I find Chad Kelly's tape a lot more interesting than Mahomes and would much prefer grabbing him in the 5th than using a 2nd round pick on Mahomes (no way we pick any QB at 10 IMO, not even Trubisky if he falls). I want both Mahomes and then Kelly in a later round. Edited March 17, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) and at the end of this season it will be 18 years of no playoffs... All u TT fanboys out there - hope you enjoy another year of futility... Edited March 17, 2017 by DefenseWins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I just want the bills to follow their draft board......qb HAS to be high on their list....but so is WR, Corner, LB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I want both. Nothing wrong with wanting Mahomes or being a fan...my issue is with all the over exaggeration going about mostly Mahomes (for a while it was Watson, now that has cooled) and absolute declarations about a kid who couldn't establish himself as the best player at his position in a weak year at that position. If we draft him, I will root hard for the kid...its not personal. I will HATE HATE HATE using the 10th pick on him (which I don't think we would ever do anyway) in this draft, would not be a fan of using our 2nd, but could live with it. Either way, if he ends up here I will be a big cheerleader for his success even though I will have not been a fan of the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Nothing wrong with wanting Mahomes or being a fan...my issue is with all the over exaggeration going about mostly Mahomes (for a while it was Watson, now that has cooled) and absolute declarations about a kid who couldn't establish himself as the best player at his position in a weak year at that position. If we draft him, I will root hard for the kid...its not personal. I will HATE HATE HATE using the 10th pick on him (which I don't think we would ever do anyway) in this draft, would not be a fan of using our 2nd, but could live with it. Either way, if he ends up here I will be a big cheerleader for his success even though I will have not been a fan of the pick. i dont want to see it before the 2nd round.....give TT some more offensive weapons imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMedia Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Do you ever post anything on football? Or was the Mahomes can't throw a screen pass the best gem we will get from you? Reading comprehension is hard, huh? I posted about football before you started trolling. Have to commend somebody for going down with their sinking ship. Never said Mahomes can't complete a screen pass, I said Mahomes hasn't proven he can make a screen pass in the NFL yet because he's never thrown one. Therefore, it would be highly exaggerating that player who has never taken a snap in the NFL can make every throw better than Tyrod. I like Mahomes. Well....im gonna just stick up for Jeff and say I actually like Mahomes (ducks under desk) I also like Mahomes quite a bit as a project I never said anything about not liking him, just pointing out the fallacies within Jeff's statement that loses him credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Nothing wrong with wanting Mahomes or being a fan...my issue is with all the over exaggeration going about mostly Mahomes (for a while it was Watson, now that has cooled) and absolute declarations about a kid who couldn't establish himself as the best player at his position in a weak year at that position. If we draft him, I will root hard for the kid...its not personal. I will HATE HATE HATE using the 10th pick on him (which I don't think we would ever do anyway) in this draft, would not be a fan of using our 2nd, but could live with it. Either way, if he ends up here I will be a big cheerleader for his success even though I will have not been a fan of the pick. I'd be pretty pissed if we took him at 10. I'd be okay at 41. I think he needs to sit at least 2 seasons before taking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Nothing wrong with wanting Mahomes or being a fan...my issue is with all the over exaggeration going about mostly Mahomes (for a while it was Watson, now that has cooled) and absolute declarations about a kid who couldn't establish himself as the best player at his position in a weak year at that position. If we draft him, I will root hard for the kid...its not personal. I will HATE HATE HATE using the 10th pick on him (which I don't think we would ever do anyway) in this draft, would not be a fan of using our 2nd, but could live with it. Either way, if he ends up here I will be a big cheerleader for his success even though I will have not been a fan of the pick. What's Gilmore done for us? Watson? Dareus? Lawson? Did they turn the Bills franchise around? Holding 1st round picks in the highest of high standards is a fools game when you don't have a QB, because it's so rare that you get that generational guy like Von Miller, JJ Watt, ect... 1st round players are more solid to very good players who come cheap for a few years than franchise changers. It's with this reasoning that you start taking chances by going QB at #10. If he is slow to develop then take another one in 2018 in the 1st round. It's the only way to solve the problem since Kelly left. While it may be frustrating, it's really the only realistic way to be on the fast track to solving the QB problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) I totally understand your thinking, but let me show you facts that completely dispute what you just said and paint a much different picture of where we are at and what needs to happen to make the playoffs: 1. Passing Yards do NOT equal playoffs. Ask Drew Brees who has averaged 5000 yards per season the last 3 years and never won more than 7 games or made the playoffs. In fact, Brees, Rivers, Luck, Ryan, and Stafford have combined to make the playoffs just 3 times out of 15 tries the last 3 years. 2. In Tyrods 15 starts, we were the 5th highest scoring team in the NFL. Points are points, doesnt matter if you run or throw...each TD is worth 6 and we were the 5th best scoring team in the NFL with TT as our QB. And going into week 17 (when we sat TT), only the Falcons and Saints had scored more TD's than the Bills. 3. We scored all those points DESPITE not having our best WR for most the year, having the rest of our WR's hurt frequently, losing key OL for parts of the year, losing McCoy for a full game and most of 2 others, and switching OC's in week 2. Furthermore, TT had 3 different OC's in 3 straight seasons. 4. IN 15 games, TT led the Bills to 25 points or more TEN times. 5. We were the number 1 rushing attack in the NFL. 6. The 2 years with TT are the HIGHEST 2 years of Buffalo scoring in team history outside the first 3 SB years. Last years team was the 5th highest in Bills history in scoring, but if TT played week 17 likely would have finished THIRD in Bills history. 7. As the number 1 rushing attack, we also had the FEWEST pass ATTEMPTS in the NFL. If you don't throw it, you don't compile stats. 8. TT has an incredible TD:Turnover ratio 9. When Sammy got healthy after the bye week in 2015, the final 9 games of the season with TT he was one of the most productive WR's in the NFL showing what a healthy Sammy can do for TT and this offense, especially if TT trusts that WR. 10. We were a higher scoring team than most the teams in the playoffs under TT. More about the D: 1. If you ignore the FLUKE shutout of the Patriots in week 4 that had No Brady, No Gronk, and No Jimmy but did have a 3rd string rookie QB with a hurt hand...the Bills defense in the other 15 games gave up an average of OVER 25 points per game, for 26th worst in the NFL. 2. Had Brady played week 4 and put up just 30 (he put up 41 on us a few weeks later) we would have been 28th in the NFL in points allowed over the full season. 2. Rex system clearly did not fit this defense. 3. We didn't have our best Safety and communicator in a complicated D most the season. 4. We lost BOTH our top 2 draft picks for half or all the season in Shaq and Rags. 5. We were missing our DL in Dareus for half the year. 6. We had other key injuries the D could not sustain. 7. We lost 8 games with TT and in those 8 games we lost by 6 points or less SIX times. Including having a big 3rd quarter lead against Oakland where the D gave up 4 straight TD drives late to Oak. Now...when you average a score of 25+ points per game, that SHOULD be enough to win a lot of games. When you give up 25+ points per game you should lose a lot of games. We did BOTH. Given we lost six games by 1 score or less, we clearly do not need to go from 26th worse defense to first ranked D to win more of those less than 1 score losses. Even a MODEST improvement of the D to middle of the pack would turn several of those 6 point or less losses into wins and that would equal the playoffs. Now factor in, we "should" have a healthy Sammy to start the year, better WR's on the roster than last year behind him, both our top 2 picks last year healthy and ready to contribute on D, REX GONE, Dareus the whole year, already an upgrade at S, and whatever else we add in FA and the draft...and its quite easy to see that our path to the playoffs may be right in front of us THIS year. We were close the last 2 years, but the D was by far our biggest issue and just the change from Rex to McDermott will likely make a big difference. We are on a much better path than people (who hate TT) realize. This false narrative about passing yards is just not factually correct. Yardage doesnt win games, scoring more points than the opponent wins game...and we were pretty good at scoring points and awful at preventing points. GO BILLS Im bumping this back in here (after it quickly got buried in Mahomes posts) to circle back to the original point of this thread about the quickest path back to the playoffs and who we can do that WITH our current QB Taylor. So rather than rewrite all this for 1billsFan, you can read my previous post that directly ties into what you just asked me. Edited March 17, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Im bumping this back in here (after it quickly got buried in Mahomes posts) to circle back to the original point of this thread about the quickest path back to the playoffs and who we can do that WITH our current QB Taylor. So rather than rewrite all this for 1billsFan, you can read my previous post that directly ties into what you just asked me. Over analysis, which is not allowing you to see the forrest through the trees. The Bills have a QB problem, they've had one for about 20 years. Tyrod Taylor is yet another Fitzpatrick, Orton, ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Over analysis, which is not allowing you to see the forrest through the trees. The Bills have a QB problem, they've had one for about 20 years. Tyrod Taylor is yet another Fitzpatrick, Orton, ect... Except he's not and led the Bills to the highest scoring offense in Bills history other than Kelly's. So theres those facts that prove otherwise, but whose counting right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Except he's not and led the Bills to the highest scoring offense in Bills history other than Kelly's. So theres those facts that prove otherwise, but whose counting right. Why would a QB responsible for all those points take a massive paycut and more future risk to his earnings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Why would a QB responsible for all those points take a massive paycut and more future risk to his earnings? because he wasnt responsible for all the points He was part of a certain system.... a cog in a machine. The bills gambled that he was going to get better in his second year....he did not live up to those expectations...there were reasons for it but it still happened Now the bills were stuck with a contract that didnt match TT's production.....and they went to him and asked him to restructure it (which he did) So now this season will determine what he is provided they actually do get him quality pass catcher's. Probably also wanted to work with coaches he had familiarity with that might know how to utilize him better. That is just a hunch on my part....i want to see what happens now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) because he wasnt responsible for all the points He was part of a certain system.... a cog in a machine. The bills gambled that he was going to get better in his second year....he did not live up to those expectations...there were reasons for it but it still happened Now the bills were stuck with a contract that didnt match TT's production.....and they went to him and asked him to restructure it (which he did) So now this season will determine what he is provided they actually do get him quality pass catcher's. Probably also wanted to work with coaches he had familiarity with that might know how to utilize him better. That is just a hunch on my part....i want to see what happens now. Wow, that sounds reasonable. Time to start drinking as that scared me. Edited March 17, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaccof Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 StubHub? That's funny, I don't care who you are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I don't care who you play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_Bills Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Sorry if I was not clear. My point is that finding a great NFL QB is not easy so if you are going to wait and find a franchise QB before you try and compete is not a satisfactory plan. Everyone can agree a great QB is really a huge help, but very few play the position well-- it's actually amazing how few given the population size. 20 or so starting QBs are B- quality and below, it's just a fact. And talent evaluators generally cannot forecast who will be a good QB, as you see so many high pick busts and the 10 or so elite ones often were not highly regarded at draft time, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Prescott, etc. I believe the dearth of QB talent and the inability to identify good QBs is having a major negative impact on the popularity of the game, given how critical the position is to success. So the repeated mantra is we have no chance without a QB so why worry when you don't have one is not really meaningful because it is not like making a stop at the grocery store and picking one up. And my point about buying more lottery tickets is that the Bills need to take more swings at finding a good QB, because they are so hard to find you need to get lucky and you can't get lucky without taking more possible QBs. I can pretty much agree with all of this. I agree with it as well Me too. I'll add that a rookie QB has a better chance of success if he comes in surrounded by talent and competitive teams are in a better position to attract veteran talent (i.e. - Manning/Broncos) if the draft picks are busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The quickest way is load up on defense hope it gets better quickly and the run game holds up and Tyrod does just enough. I'm not interested in the quickest way anymore though. Let's find a sustainable way and that means getting a Franchise Quarterback so let's start drafting QBs. Except he's not and led the Bills to the highest scoring offense in Bills history other than Kelly's. So theres those facts that prove otherwise, but whose counting right. Well it depends what he means. He isn't another Fitz or Orton in the sense he is better than them. He is another Fitz or Orton in the sense he is another short term band aid and not the long term answer. If anyone still believes Tyrod could be the guy long term I want 10 of whatever they are drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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