Tom Brady-The Greatest of His Era, Not All-Time

[row_33]

 

Well, today, they have to deal with Luke Kuechly, Jamie Collins, Navarro Bowman, Bobby Wagner, Sean Lee, Derrick Johnson, Donta Hightower etc...I would venture to say these guys are faster, stronger and quicker......

 

The NFL had world class and university champion sprinters in the 60s and 70s and early 80s... top players...

[Chris66]

 

The NFL had world class and university champion sprinters in the 60s and 70s and early 80s... top players...

and they had to work in the offseason. Not one team from the 70s would compare to any team today. They would get smoked

[Iron Maiden]

 

The NFL had world class and university champion sprinters in the 60s and 70s and early 80s... top players...

 

Todays athletes are far superior IMO....the training is better, they have nutritionist, psychologist etc.....that's why world records fall every year....take an athlete for the 70s vs today, it's night and day....hell, the guys from that era marveled at today's NFL players....

[row_33]

 

Todays athletes are far superior IMO....the training is better, they have nutritionist, psychologist etc.....that's why world records fall every year....take an athlete for the 70s vs today, it's night and day....hell, the guys from that era marveled at today's NFL players....

 

weren't too many men running faster than NFL (should be) HoFer Bob Hayes in history, even without factoring in better equipment and track conditions today, he was special

 

not sure you can assume an increase in pure speed with the size, has to be some point where it isn't an advantage to be that big

 

you can take a few mph off for the same impact with more pounds

 

the dearth of children following their great fathers into sports shows how the game changes over the generations, that body type doesn't work as time marches on

Edited March 16, 2017 by row_33

[Iron Maiden]

 

weren't too many men running faster than NFL HoFer Bob Hayes in history, even without factoring in better equipment and track conditions today, he was special

 

not sure you can assume an increase in pure speed with the size, has to be some point where it isn't an advantage to be that big

 

you can take a few mph off for the same impact with more pounds

 

the dearth of children following their great fathers into sports shows how the game changes over the generations, that body type doesn't work as time marches on

 

 

There's always exceptions of course, but as a general statement, players today are much better then 15-20-25 years ago.....

[row_33]

 

 

There's always exceptions of course, but as a general statement, players today are much better then 15-20-25 years ago.....

 

I don't buy that hockey has kept the offensive skill and mindset that used to be taken for granted.

 

I miss the big man dominance that was a main part of college and pro hoops.

 

I would enjoy watching today's golfers use the same equipment that Bobby Jones had to get around with.

[mannc]

 

Todays athletes are far superior IMO....the training is better, they have nutritionist, psychologist etc.....that's why world records fall every year....take an athlete for the 70s vs today, it's night and day....hell, the guys from that era marveled at today's NFL players....

This really isn't debatable.

 

And I think the rule changes have been overblown, as well. The main reason the NFL is more of a passing league today is that coaches have realized that passing is the best way to move the football and score points. This has always been true in the modern era, but coaches who were raised on "three yards and a cloud of dust" were just slow to come around to it. The best teams have almost always been the ones with the best QBs, going back to the very first Super Bowls.

[HT02]

 

Well, today, they have to deal with Luke Kuechly, Jamie Collins, Navarro Bowman, Bobby Wagner, Sean Lee, Derrick Johnson, Donta Hightower etc...I would venture to say these guys are faster, stronger and quicker......

If you don't understand the difference between getting hit by those outstanding athletes you listed playing with the rules today and what getting completely demolished and very nearly decapitated by the guys I mentioned playing under the 1970's NFL rules you'll never understand why it was so much harder to pass in that era, NOBODY made a living going over the middle before the late 80's.

[NewEra]

If you don't understand the difference between getting hit by those outstanding athletes you listed playing with the rules today and what getting completely demolished and very nearly decapitated by the guys I mentioned playing under the 1970's NFL rules you'll never understand why it was so much harder to pass in that era, NOBODY made a living going over the middle before the late 80's.

And Tom Brady is still the best qb of all time

[PromoTheRobot]

And he says he wants to play 6-7 more years. He'll be 46. Nothing unusual about that. Just keep thinking that, media.

[HT02]

And Tom Brady is still the best qb of all time

If you say so

[Mr. WEO]

If you don't understand the difference between getting hit by those outstanding athletes you listed playing with the rules today and what getting completely demolished and very nearly decapitated by the guys I mentioned playing under the 1970's NFL rules you'll never understand why it was so much harder to pass in that era, NOBODY made a living going over the middle before the late 80's.

 

And when you were a kid you walked to school uphill, both to and from, with no shoes in 8 feet of snow, year round.

[OldTimer1960]

This really isn't debatable.

 

And I think the rule changes have been overblown, as well. The main reason the NFL is more of a passing league today is that coaches have realized that passing is the best way to move the football and score points. This has always been true in the modern era, but coaches who were raised on "three yards and a cloud of dust" were just slow to come around to it. The best teams have almost always been the ones with the best QBs, going back to the very first Super Bowls.

I must respectfully disagree with this point. DBs used to be able to make contact w WR through route - not just in first 5 yards. DBs used to absolutely kill WRs after the catch - really intimidated WRs and hurt them too. Today if you hit below the waist or above the shoulders - penalty. If you hit too soon or too hard immediately after catch - penalty for hitting defenseless WR. You almost can't hit a QB in the pocket anymore and pass blocking rules have been substantially modified to allow more use of the hands.

[NewEra]

If you say so

Now you're learning

[mannc]

I must respectfully disagree with this point. DBs used to be able to make contact w WR through route - not just in first 5 yards. DBs used to absolutely kill WRs after the catch - really intimidated WRs and hurt them too. Today if you hit below the waist or above the shoulders - penalty. If you hit too soon or too hard immediately after catch - penalty for hitting defenseless WR. You almost can't hit a QB in the pocket anymore and pass blocking rules have been substantially modified to allow more use of the hands.

Well, the numbers don't support your theory. The league-wide average yards per pass attempt was 7.2 in 2016--the exact same as it was in 1983, before all of the rule changes you bemoan.

[bdutton]

If Tom Brady were drafted in 1984, in a different era, where QB's weren't coddled, there is no way in hell that Brady would be in the shape, 16-17 years into his career that he is today. His body would have broken down at least some and he wouldn't be the player he is right now.

 

Joe Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls and won 4 in 9 years. If he wasn't injured in the 1990 NFC Championship game against the 49ers, he probably would have been 5-0 with 5 in 10 years.

 

I know people were in a hurry to anoint Brady after the last Super Bowl, but if you take a step back and really look at the thing, there are QB's who have been just as impressive if not more with respect to their era. What would Dan Marino's career have looked like if he was drafted into the NFL in the year 2000?

 

Tom Brady is definitely one of the greatest QB's of all-time and the best of his era, but as far as I am concerned what Montana did in the era he played in was more impressive.

 

Looking back at the drafting of quarterbacks before and after 2000 where Brady was taken... how many are still starters the league:

1999:
NAME	POS	SCHOOL	ROUND	PK(OVR)	TEAM
 Tim Couch	QB	Kentucky	1	1(1)	Cleveland
 Donovan McNabb	QB	Syracuse	1	2(2)	Philadelphia
 Akili Smith	QB	Oregon	1	3(3)	Cincinnati
 Daunte Culpepper	QB	UCF	1	11(11)	Minnesota
 Cade McNown	QB	UCLA	1	12(12)	Chicago
 Shaun King	QB	Tulane	2	19(50)	Tampa Bay
 Brock Huard	QB	Washington	3	16(77)	Seattle
 Joe Germaine	QB	Ohio State	4	6(101)	Los Angeles
 Aaron Brooks	QB	Virginia	4	36(131)	Green Bay
 Kevin Daft	QB	UC Davis	5	18(151)	Tennessee

2000:
NAME	POS	SCHOOL	ROUND	PK(OVR)	TEAM
 Chad Pennington	QB	Marshall	1	18(18)	NY Jets
 Giovanni Carmazzi	QB	Hofstra	3	3(65)	San Francisco
 Chris Redman	QB	Louisville	3	13(75)	Baltimore
 Tee Martin	QB	Tennessee	5	34(163)	Pittsburgh
 Marc Bulger	QB	West Virginia	6	2(168)	New Orleans
 Spergon Wynn	QB	Texas State University	6	17(183)	Cleveland
 Tom Brady	QB	Michigan	6	33(199)	New England

2001:
NAME	POS	SCHOOL	ROUND	PK(OVR)	TEAM
 Michael Vick	QB	Virginia Tech	1	1(1)	Atlanta
 Drew Brees	QB	Purdue	2	1(32)	Los Angeles
 Quincy Carter	QB	Georgia	2	22(53)	Dallas
 Marques Tuiasosopo	QB	Washington	2	28(59)	Oakland
 Chris Weinke	QB	Florida State	4	11(106)	Carolina
 Sage Rosenfels	QB	Iowa State	4	14(109)	Washington
 Jesse Palmer	QB	Florida	4	30(125)	NY Giants
 Mike McMahon	QB	Rutgers	5	18(149)	Detroit
 A.J. Feeley	QB	Oregon	5	24(155)	Philadelphia
 Josh Booty	QB	LSU	6	9(172)	Seattle

Other than Brees there are none.

 

So to say that his longevity is because of the rules about quarterbacks is false.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Looking back at the drafting of quarterbacks before and after 2000 where Brady was taken... how many are still starters the league:

 

1999:
NAME	POS	SCHOOL	ROUND	PK(OVR)	TEAM
 Tim Couch	QB	Kentucky	1	1(1)	Cleveland
 Donovan McNabb	QB	Syracuse	1	2(2)	Philadelphia
 Akili Smith	QB	Oregon	1	3(3)	Cincinnati
 Daunte Culpepper	QB	UCF	1	11(11)	Minnesota
 Cade McNown	QB	UCLA	1	12(12)	Chicago
 Shaun King	QB	Tulane	2	19(50)	Tampa Bay
 Brock Huard	QB	Washington	3	16(77)	Seattle
 Joe Germaine	QB	Ohio State	4	6(101)	Los Angeles
 Aaron Brooks	QB	Virginia	4	36(131)	Green Bay
 Kevin Daft	QB	UC Davis	5	18(151)	Tennessee

2000:
NAME	POS	SCHOOL	ROUND	PK(OVR)	TEAM
 Chad Pennington	QB	Marshall	1	18(18)	NY Jets
 Giovanni Carmazzi	QB	Hofstra	3	3(65)	San Francisco
 Chris Redman	QB	Louisville	3	13(75)	Baltimore
 Tee Martin	QB	Tennessee	5	34(163)	Pittsburgh
 Marc Bulger	QB	West Virginia	6	2(168)	New Orleans
 Spergon Wynn	QB	Texas State University	6	17(183)	Cleveland
 Tom Brady	QB	Michigan	6	33(199)	New England

2001:
NAME	POS	SCHOOL	ROUND	PK(OVR)	TEAM
 Michael Vick	QB	Virginia Tech	1	1(1)	Atlanta
 Drew Brees	QB	Purdue	2	1(32)	Los Angeles
 Quincy Carter	QB	Georgia	2	22(53)	Dallas
 Marques Tuiasosopo	QB	Washington	2	28(59)	Oakland
 Chris Weinke	QB	Florida State	4	11(106)	Carolina
 Sage Rosenfels	QB	Iowa State	4	14(109)	Washington
 Jesse Palmer	QB	Florida	4	30(125)	NY Giants
 Mike McMahon	QB	Rutgers	5	18(149)	Detroit
 A.J. Feeley	QB	Oregon	5	24(155)	Philadelphia
 Josh Booty	QB	LSU	6	9(172)	Seattle

Other than Brees there are none.

 

So to say that his longevity is because of the rules about quarterbacks is false.

Thus is a very strange metric and incredibly short-sighted post. I will explain in further detail when I have more time.

[Mr. WEO]

Should we kick the can on Brady??

[OldTimer1960]

Well, the numbers don't support your theory. The league-wide average yards per pass attempt was 7.2 in 2016--the exact same as it was in 1983, before all of the rule changes you bemoan.

But completion percentage was far lower in 1983 than in 2016 - something must account for that other than that WRs are better.

 

In 1983, 8 (eight!) QBs completed 60% or better of their passes.

In 2016, 29 of 32 starting QBs completed at least 60% of their passes, including two who completed 70% or better.

 

In 1983, the TD/INT ratio among starting QBs was 1.15 : 1

In 2016 the TD/INT ratio among starting QBs was 2.28 : 1

 

I think it is very hard to argue that those differences are not at least partially due to the significant rules changes that favor the passing game.

To be clear, I don't think that there is any debate that players today are better trained (some help to chemistry) and practice sport-specific skills more than earlier generations. The proof of that is in the height/weight/speed of players today vs yesterday's players. However, I can't accept that the change in today's passing game is not at least partially due to those rules changes.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Was there a single QB playing in the league on 2000 that was drafted 17 years earlier in the 1983 draft? The answer is no. Were any of those QB's playing close to their prime when they retired years earlier? Again the answer is no. Brady and Brees are playing like they are 25 when the are 40, there is no question, players have more longevity today and a huge part of that are the rules that protect the QB's from taking major hits. Also the rules on what defenders can do to the receivers have been changed significantly to make it easier to complete passes. There is no question about these facts. People who think there is are simply not well informed.

Should we kick the can on Brady??

I feel sorry for the people in for life that constantly have to fake laugh at your attempts at jokes.