Have you switched sides politically?

[Drunkard]

Go read the global warming hoax thread for my position nooblord.

No need. I've already been converted. The earth hasn't been getting hotter, Jesus came back from the dead as a rabbit who hides colored eggs, and Santa can bring toys to all the children of the world (at least the Christian ones who are the only ones who matter anyway) in a single night. Exxon Mobil has our collective best interests at heart as well, not a fiduciary duty to make money instead. I have seen the light. Time to find some witches and burn them at the stake.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Drunkard

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No need. I've already been converted. The earth hasn't been getting hotter, Jesus came back from the dead as a rabbit who hides colored eggs, and Santa can bring toys to all the children of the world (at least the Christian ones who are the only ones who matter anyway) in a single night. Exxon Mobil has our collective best interests at heart as well, not a fiduciary duty to make money instead. I have seen the light. Time to find some witches and burn them at the stake.

Don't peg me as a Jesus freak im not.

[Drunkard]

Don't peg me as a Jesus freak im not.

You pegged me as some sort of lord to the noobs or whatever video game/internet geek nonsense so I'd say it's fair game.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Drunkard

[Drunkard]

I don't see how you can say glabal warming in and of itself is a hoax.

 

http://time.com/4637064/2016-hottest-year-on-record/

 

2014 was the hottest year on record until it was surpassed by 2015, and then that was surpassed by 2016. One is an incident, two is a coincidence, but three is a pattern. That is global warming.

 

We can disagree/argue/debate about the amount of contribution humans have had to the rise of temperature but I have zero interest in debating the fact that the earth is getting hotter because it is a fact. Trying to debate when one side just outright ignores basic facts is an exercise in futility.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Drunkard

[IDBillzFan]

The invisible product is salvation, heaven, or whatever you want to call their unproven beliefs. They take advantage of the fear of death by using it to rake in billions of dollars they don't even pay taxes on while pushing their agenda against gays , abortion, science, and whatever else they believe the old book of bad ideas tells them to do.

 

First of all, you're confusing state laws (dry Sundays, etc.) with federal laws. Stay focused.

 

What federal agendas are Christians pushing? Can you cite specific federal legislation being pushed against gays, abortion, science and whatever?

 

Can you let me know what legislation is currently in the house that is designed to set up camps to change homosexuals? Is is the same legislation pushed on the US via executive order to let transgenders use whatever bathroom they like, or is that different? Or to have federal health care cover the use of hormones to change a child's gender? Is that not conversion therapy, or is it just conversion therapy you agree with?

 

Can you let me know what legislation is currently in the house to overturn Roe v Wade? How does that legislation currently sit? Or are you confusing it with people who elect congressmen and senators to keep their tax dollars from funding abortions based on their Christian beliefs? You don't want to confuse individual rights with "pushing an agenda," right?

 

Are you equally upset when a Christian is forced to use their bakery to make a cake for homosexuals? Or is that agenda okay with you? If so, why?

 

Can you let me know what legislation is currently in the house to put an end to whatever science you are talking about? What science in particular are they against? Is is the science of climate or the science that shows a baby feeling pain at eight weeks old?

 

Lastly, why do you consider Muslims to be no big deal because they're a minority here, but they can still murder 50 American homosexuals in a nightclub at point blank range in the name of Allah. That's not a big effect on the US? Or just workplace violence?

 

You seem to just want what YOU want based on what you think you know. It would be better for you to be specific about the things that are scaring you about Christians, but not about Muslims.

[Drunkard]

 

First of all, you're confusing state laws (dry Sundays, etc.) with federal laws. Stay focused.

 

What federal agendas are Christians pushing? Can you cite specific federal legislation being pushed against gays, abortion, science and whatever?

 

Can you let me know what legislation is currently in the house that is designed to set up camps to change homosexuals? Is is the same legislation pushed on the US via executive order to let transgenders use whatever bathroom they like, or is that different? Or to have federal health care cover the use of hormones to change a child's gender? Is that not conversion therapy, or is it just conversion therapy you agree with?

 

Can you let me know what legislation is currently in the house to overturn Roe v Wade? How does that legislation currently sit? Or are you confusing it with people who elect congressmen and senators to keep their tax dollars from funding abortions based on their Christian beliefs? You don't want to confuse individual rights with "pushing an agenda," right?

 

Are you equally upset when a Christian is forced to use their bakery to make a cake for homosexuals? Or is that agenda okay with you? If so, why?

 

Can you let me know what legislation is currently in the house to put an end to whatever science you are talking about? What science in particular are they against? Is is the science of climate or the science that shows a baby feeling pain at eight weeks old?

 

Lastly, why do you consider Muslims to be no big deal because they're a minority here, but they can still murder 50 American homosexuals in a nightclub at point blank range in the name of Allah. That's not a big effect on the US? Or just workplace violence?

 

You seem to just want what YOU want based on what you think you know. It would be better for you to be specific about the things that are scaring you about Christians, but not about Muslims.

First off, where did I say I was was only concerned about the national conservative agenda? I never said that or even alluded to it, otherwise I wouldn't have used the examples that I did, so that's not a focus problem on my behalf, it's an interpretation problem on yours.

 

More likely you're just trying to move the goal posts so you don't have to defend the nonsense that goes on at the state and local levels regarding passing intelligent design off as science, abstinence only education, or the way red states like Texas pass legislation impeding a woman's right to chhose.

 

My concerns about evangelicals pushing their beliefs on people who don't hold their same beliefs are stated well enough by that handful of examples and that is enough for me to avoid the GOP like a plague.

 

I don't know enough about the other type of conversion therapy you're speaking of to have an opinion either way but I don't agree with hormone therapy to convert genders for minors on the surface so I'm not going to try to defend an argument that I'm not even in support of.

 

The conversion therapy I was talking about isn't done by law to my knowledge it's done by religious nuts applying family and religious pressure to people who happen to be gay. Even if it's not madated by law the Evangelical politicians who support crap like that is enough to cost them my vote in perpetuity. Not that it matters at this point though because as you've already pointed out that kind of nonsense only gains traction at the local levels and usually only in areas with high numbers of evangelicals. It doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it or support the dumbing down the overall population on a wide scale.

 

The gay customer/Christian bakery thing is a sticky wicket for sure. It sucks in theory that they'd have to bake a cake for them but a line has to be drawn somewhere to protect people from discrimination. Otherwise what's to stop them from refusing service to black people, or muslims, or some other group? I'm pretty sure the Equal Protection clause is written in that Constitution that Conservatives hold up as basically an infallible document that was handed down directly from God to Jesus backed when he lived in Branson, Missouri or some such nonsense.

 

As for tax payer funded abortions I'm pretty sure Planned Parenthood has opened their books and shown that their federal funding gets spent on things like mammograms and other non abortion services.

 

I don't dispute that fetuses can feel pain and I'm not pro-abortion. Even people who are pro choice like I am want abortions to be safe, legal, and RARE. The conservatives totally lose any moral highground on this issue though with their love the fetus, hate the baby approach though. They'll scream abortion is murder till the cows come home then vote for some !@#$ that promises to cut welfare for all those "takers". Who makes us most welfare recipients? Poor, single, women with kids. Who has most of the abortions in this country? Poor, single, women. So the Republicans want to force poor women who get pregnant to hve these kids they can't afford, then also want to cut assistance they'd be eligible for. If they really want to reduce the number of abortions shouldn't they be in favor of increasing aid to single women with kids?

 

I've also never said that the religious psychobabble of muslims was no big deal. In fact I think it's a huge deal. The way many/some/most muslims treat gays, women, and non-muslims is despicable and they are way worse than the way Christians have been in centuries (way to go team Jesus, although that's not exactly a high bar to get over). I merely said it wasn't as big of a problem, relatively speaking, to what Evangelicals do in the US because of scale. Muslims have very little political clout in the US where Evangelicals have a ton. It's purely a matter of scale and proximity. I'm way more likely to be hassled by the Jesus nut down the street than the Allah nut threatening infidels for someone drawing his imaginary friend.

[IDBillzFan]

First off, where did I say I was was only concerned about the national conservative agenda? I never said that or even alluded to it, otherwise I wouldn't have used the examples that I did, so that's not a focus problem on my behalf, it's an interpretation problem on yours.

 

More likely you're just trying to move the goal posts so you don't have to defend the nonsense that goes on at the state and local levels regarding passing intelligent design off as science, abstinence only education, or the way red states like Texas pass legislation impeding a woman's right to chhose.

 

My concerns about evangelicals pushing their beliefs on people who don't hold their same beliefs are stated well enough by that handful of examples and that is enough for me to avoid the GOP like a plague.

 

I don't know enough about the other type of conversion therapy you're speaking of to have an opinion either way but I don't agree with hormone therapy to convert genders for minors on the surface so I'm not going to try to defend an argument that I'm not even in support of.

 

The conversion therapy I was talking about isn't done by law to my knowledge it's done by religious nuts applying family and religious pressure to people who happen to be gay. Even if it's not madated by law the Evangelical politicians who support crap like that is enough to cost them my vote in perpetuity. Not that it matters at this point though because as you've already pointed out that kind of nonsense only gains traction at the local levels and usually only in areas with high numbers of evangelicals. It doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it or support the dumbing down the overall population on a wide scale.

 

The gay customer/Christian bakery thing is a sticky wicket for sure. It sucks in theory that they'd have to bake a cake for them but a line has to be drawn somewhere to protect people from discrimination. Otherwise what's to stop them from refusing service to black people, or muslims, or some other group? I'm pretty sure the Equal Protection clause is written in that Constitution that Conservatives hold up as basically an infallible document that was handed down directly from God to Jesus backed when he lived in Branson, Missouri or some such nonsense.

 

As for tax payer funded abortions I'm pretty sure Planned Parenthood has opened their books and shown that their federal funding gets spent on things like mammograms and other non abortion services.

 

I don't dispute that fetuses can feel pain and I'm not pro-abortion. Even people who are pro choice like I am want abortions to be safe, legal, and RARE. The conservatives totally lose any moral highground on this issue though with their love the fetus, hate the baby approach though. They'll scream abortion is murder till the cows come home then vote for some !@#$ that promises to cut welfare for all those "takers". Who makes us most welfare recipients? Poor, single, women with kids. Who has most of the abortions in this country? Poor, single, women. So the Republicans want to force poor women who get pregnant to hve these kids they can't afford, then also want to cut assistance they'd be eligible for. If they really want to reduce the number of abortions shouldn't they be in favor of increasing aid to single women with kids?

 

I've also never said that the religious psychobabble of muslims was no big deal. In fact I think it's a huge deal. The way many/some/most muslims treat gays, women, and non-muslims is despicable and they are way worse than the way Christians have been in centuries (way to go team Jesus, although that's not exactly a high bar to get over). I merely said it wasn't as big of a problem, relatively speaking, to what Evangelicals do in the US because of scale. Muslims have very little political clout in the US where Evangelicals have a ton. It's purely a matter of scale and proximity. I'm way more likely to be hassled by the Jesus nut down the street than the Allah nut threatening infidels for someone drawing his imaginary friend.

 

There's no need to move goal posts because you're essentially making my point for me.

 

You're finding the things that you believe to be true to your beliefs, and in the process show little to any respect for those who believe differently than you do. It's just that simple.

 

Example: You understand the need to protect people, like homosexuals, from discrimination, and have no problem making Christians do something they believe is against their faith, which is what?

 

Discrimination.

 

Our federal government wants to make sure you can use any bathroom you want to protect .02% of the world from discrimination. But they will literally sue The Little Sisters of the Poor to force them to do something that is against their religion. Gee, that sounds a lot like what?

 

Discrimination.

 

You want to ensure safe, legal and rare abortions, but when people do not want to use their own money to pay for someone else's abortion because they believe that life begins at conception and abortion is murder, you think they're wrong. Because of their religion. And what do we call that?

 

Discrimination.

 

You save yourself a lot of time if you just said you hate Christians and wish they'd leave you alone. The problem is, with all the laws that have been passed to shut them down and make them do what YOU want them to do, even if it's against their religion, like pay for abortions or provide condoms to employees, you're trying to stop discrimination through discrimination.

 

P.S. Poor, single women make up the most of welfare recipients NOT because they can't get an abortion, but because the federal government has a "make more babies incentive program." Have more babies you can't care for, get more money from the government.

 

PSS. Apparently you and Barack Obama are the two people left who think Planned Parenthood does mammograms. They don't. They're an abortion factory and live off the government dole. They can be an abortion factory ALL THEY WANT. Just not with my money.

[Dorkington]

In my college years I was pretty close to being a libertarian, now in my 30s I'm left of the Democratic platform.

[DC Tom]

I don't buy into this nonsense because that's the same tactic Evangelicals use to try to put intelligent design on par with evolution and they just aren't equal and no amount of grandstanding and false equivalency on your/their part will ever make it so no matter how much you want it to.

 

Atheism is not a religion (which is what makes it appealing to begin with) and neither is climate change. The climate is changing. 2014 was the hottest year on record, until 2015 surpassed it, and then 2016 surpassed that. The only actual point to argue is how much impact man is contributing to it or whether it's a natural cycle that the earth is going through based on ice core samples, fossil records, and whatever else they use to measure temperatures over millions of years. I certainly don't know but I'd venture to side with the side that says pollution overall isn't good for us or the planet rather than the side that makes money by extracting resources from the earth as fast as humanely possible while not caring what they do about the waste it generates.

 

Atheism is a religion because it's fundamental basis is belief without evidence,

 

Global warming is a religion because it's unfalsifiable.

[The_Dude]

 

Atheism is a religion because it's fundamental basis is belief without evidence,

 

Global warming is a religion because it's unfalsifiable.

OMG, not the 'atheism really is a religion' bs. And I disagree with your conclusion to it. It isn't 'belief without evidence,' its 'not believing without evidence.'

[GoBills808]

 

Atheism is a religion because it's fundamental basis is belief without evidence,

 

Global warming is a religion because it's unfalsifiable.

Hmmm...most if not all religions have either a concept of a divinity/divine entity and/or the afterlife ie resurrection, reincarnation, etc. Atheism rejects both concepts religions are founded upon, incorrect to equate the two IMO.

[Drunkard]

 

There's no need to move goal posts because you're essentially making my point for me.

 

You're finding the things that you believe to be true to your beliefs, and in the process show little to any respect for those who believe differently than you do. It's just that simple.

 

Example: You understand the need to protect people, like homosexuals, from discrimination, and have no problem making Christians do something they believe is against their faith, which is what?

 

Discrimination.

 

Our federal government wants to make sure you can use any bathroom you want to protect .02% of the world from discrimination. But they will literally sue The Little Sisters of the Poor to force them to do something that is against their religion. Gee, that sounds a lot like what?

 

Discrimination.

 

You want to ensure safe, legal and rare abortions, but when people do not want to use their own money to pay for someone else's abortion because they believe that life begins at conception and abortion is murder, you think they're wrong. Because of their religion. And what do we call that?

 

Discrimination.

 

You save yourself a lot of time if you just said you hate Christians and wish they'd leave you alone. The problem is, with all the laws that have been passed to shut them down and make them do what YOU want them to do, even if it's against their religion, like pay for abortions or provide condoms to employees, you're trying to stop discrimination through discrimination.

 

P.S. Poor, single women make up the most of welfare recipients NOT because they can't get an abortion, but because the federal government has a "make more babies incentive program." Have more babies you can't care for, get more money from the government.

 

PSS. Apparently you and Barack Obama are the two people left who think Planned Parenthood does mammograms. They don't. They're an abortion factory and live off the government dole. They can be an abortion factory ALL THEY WANT. Just not with my money.

I see we've reached the portion of the argument where it's really Christians who are the ones being discriminated against, despite all the evidence to the contrary and the actual demographics of the country.

[DC Tom]

OMG, not the 'atheism really is a religion' bs. And I disagree with your conclusion to it. It isn't 'belief without evidence,' its 'not believing without evidence.'

 

By your argument, Judaism isn't a religion, as it does not recognize belief in the divinity of Jesus without evidence.

[IDBillzFan]

I see we've reached the portion of the argument where it's really Christians who are the ones being discriminated against, despite all the evidence to the contrary and the actual demographics of the country.

 

No. We've reached the portion of the discussion where we both agree this country has a crapload of problems when it comes to the size, cost and operation of the federal government, and the only reason Christianity isn't the very least of our problems is because the one thing that really IS the least of our problems is global warming cooling climate change.

 

Here's a clue: you may not like Christians, but remember the first thing our government did when we were attacked on 9/11?

 

 

They'll always call the only one who can save them when the schitt hits the fan, whether you like it or not.

[The_Dude]

 

By your argument, Judaism isn't a religion, as it does not recognize belief in the divinity of Jesus without evidence.

Judaism most definitely is.

 

They have a story or creation and a diety.

 

Buddhism is an interesting one. I do not recognize it as a religion. Also, the oroginal Buddha...worst case of Holden Caufield syndrome ever. What. A. kitty.

[row_33]

will be a Buckley-Reagan conservative from 1980 to the day I die.

 

Doesn't pay off much in Canada

 

Watching the events unfold with guarded optimism for jobs and common sense on foreign policy.

[KD in CA]

The climate is changing. 2014 was the hottest year on record, until 2015 surpassed it, and then 2016 surpassed that. The only actual point to argue is how much impact man is contributing to it or whether it's a natural cycle that the earth is going through based on ice core samples, fossil records, and whatever else they use to measure temperatures over millions of years. I certainly don't know but I'd venture to side with the side that says pollution overall isn't good for us or the planet rather than the side that makes money by extracting resources from the earth as fast as humanely possible while not caring what they do about the waste it generates.

 

No ****. The climate has been changing for the last 4.5 billion years and will continue to do so for the next 4.5 billion years, regardless of whatever tiny eye-blink of time humans exist on the planet. The hottest year 'on record' means out of the last 150 years they've been keeping records. What's the scientific consensus on relying on a sample size of 150 / 4.5 billion?

 

So we're left with analyzing broad data to understand large scale climate changes in the planet's history -- rounded to the nearest ten thousand years -- to raise hysterical alarms over temperature readings in the last 20 years?? Comical.

 

Six months ago CA was about to have another dust bowl (because of.....'climate change'). Now our big problems are potential dam failures and failure to build enough reservoirs. Cue the "extreme weather!!" excuse.

[Benjamin Franklin]

 

Atheism is a religion because it's fundamental basis is belief without evidence,

 

 

No. Atheism is lack of belief due to lack of evidence.

 

Same reason Rational people don't believe in the tooth fairy and Thor. (Although if I was going to choose a belief system, I could do worse than Norse.)

 

There are Atheists who prostelitize. Those people fit your definition but they are minority. An annoying loud minority but minority.

 

Most atheists sort of just ignore religious debate as waste of air except when forced to engage.

[Joe Miner]

No. Atheism is lack of belief due to lack of evidence.

 

Same reason Rational people don't believe in the tooth fairy and Thor. (Although if I was going to choose a belief system, I could do worse than Norse.)

 

There are Atheists who prostelitize. Those people fit your definition but they are minority. An annoying loud minority but minority.

 

Most atheists sort of just ignore religious debate as waste of air except when forced to engage.

It's the opposite of theism.

 

Belief there is no God/s.

 

It's not a lack of belief. It's a belief.

 

Is it a religion? Depends on how strong your belief is I suppose.

 

Agnosticism is what you're looking for.

[Benjamin Franklin]

It's the opposite of theism.

 

Belief there is no God/s.

 

It's not a lack of belief. It's a belief.

 

Is it a religion? Depends on how strong your belief is I suppose.

 

Agnosticism is what you're looking for.

Agnosticism is saying "I don't know if there is a god." That's a cop out in most spiritual conversation. It's leaving the door open.

 

Atheists for the most part say "I don't see any proof of god. Let's go grab a beer."

 

Perhaps atheism is ill defined. Those who express belief in the non existense of god are a strange lot of faith believers. I see them as a vocal minority. Those who don't believe in a god for lack of evidence...that's in some way logical and how most atheists I know are: Good people who just don't spend a lot of time talking about god.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin