WWE/Professional Wrestling

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

That's the state of wrestling in 2020.

 

It is so bad.

 

I feel bad for the people who weren't around to see the product from 1997-2004. 

 

Wrestling was great during that time period and Monday Night RAW was TRULY "can't miss" TV.

 

I have always said that if you wanted to get a boost in the product, they should have made John Cena a nasty heel, but that time has passed and wrestling has become as useless as used toilet paper.

 

All you need to know about how bad the product is.... is them dusting off Goldberg and having him beat one of the few WWE Superstars who are actually passable in Bray Wyatt.

WWE is not the only wrestling company. There's a lot of great wrestling out there if it's the kind of thing you're into.

[Logic]

After spending a bunch of time watching NJPW in recent months, it is even more glaringly obvious how clueless and thoughtless the WWE's booking is. Not surprising, since they have aging and increasingly out of touch Vince McMahon and a bunch of TV writers running things.

Meanwhile, NJPW clearly plans things out well in advance, with angles and character progression and trajectories that go on for YEARS. It is all clearly well thought out, with thought to both maintaining current stars AND building future stars in a way that doesn't hurt either camp.

I mean...it was obvious BEFORE watching NJPW that WWE is a ship without a rudder these days, but now its even MORE obvious. The shame of it all is that the WWE -- between Raw, Smackdown, NXT, and 205 Live or whatever its called these days -- has an INSANE roster of talent. They just don't have ANY idea what to do with them or who they should or shouldn't be giving pushes to. I wish guys like Ricochet, Finn Balor, Drew McIntyre, and even Roman Reigns would break away from WWE and either go back to NJPW or start joining AEW and ignite a new Monday Night Wars style feud of companies. SUCH a waste of talent going in right now. Shame, shame, shame.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Logic

[frostbitmic]

On 2/27/2020 at 7:23 PM, njbuff said:

 

That's the state of wrestling in 2020.

 

It is so bad.

 

I feel bad for the people who weren't around to see the product from 1997-2004. 

 

Wrestling was great during that time period and Monday Night RAW was TRULY "can't miss" TV.

 

I have always said that if you wanted to get a boost in the product, they should have made John Cena a nasty heel, but that time has passed and wrestling has become as useless as used toilet paper.

 

All you need to know about how bad the product is.... is them dusting off Goldberg and having him beat one of the few WWE Superstars who are actually passable in Bray Wyatt.

Speaking of used toilet paper, now they're bringing back Cena.

[njbuff]

Just now, frostbitmic said:

Speaking of used toilet paper, now they're bringing back Cena.

 

And I bet as the same stale character he has been since he stopped being the Doctor of Thuganomics.

[Koko78]

On 3/1/2020 at 2:50 PM, njbuff said:

 

And I bet as the same stale character he has been since he stopped being the Doctor of Thuganomics.

 

They were never going to turn him heel - he sold too much merch to kids (not to mention all the free press they got for his Make-A-Wish stuff.) Now that he's a Hollywood darling, they're not going to hurt his box office appeal by turning him heel.

 

You're stuck with SuperCena, and you will like it, dammit!

[njbuff]

31 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

They were never going to turn him heel - he sold too much merch to kids (not to mention all the free press they got for his Make-A-Wish stuff.) Now that he's a Hollywood darling, they're not going to hurt his box office appeal by turning him heel.

 

You're stuck with SuperCena, and you will like it, dammit!

That’s why the WWE is horseshyt.

 

New heel merchandise would sell big, just like the Rock’s in 2003 and Austin’s in 2001.

 

I really don’t care because I don’t watch today’s garbage, but turning Cena heel will draw a few former wrestling fans back in.

 

Back in the day, Bret Hart was beloved by fans all over the world for many years and even he turned nasty heel and he and wrestling were so much better off for it. It was the catalyst to ushering in the greatest era in professional wrestling history by a country mile.............. the WWF’s Attitude Era.

 

But it’s all apples to oranges. The Attitude Era is LONG GONE and the WWE is total crap in today’s world as the ratings suggest.
 

There can be confused humans telling“Tranny Story Time” to 8 year olds, but the same 8 year olds can’t see Cena become a heel because of Make a Wish and the Hollyweird pervs. Ok got it.

 

I am not trying to disrespect you Koko, but I have to tell it like it is.

 

Even Stone Cold said they would never turn Cena heel. I just respectfully disagree and say you are both wrong.

[Koko78]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

That’s why the WWE is horseshyt.

 

New heel merchandise would sell big, just like the Rock’s in 2003 and Austin’s in 2001.

 

I really don’t care because I don’t watch today’s garbage, but turning Cena heel will draw a few former wrestling fans back in.

 

Back in the day, Bret Hart was beloved by fans all over the world for many years and even he turned nasty heel and he and wrestling were so much better off for it. It was the catalyst to ushering in the greatest era in professional wrestling history by a country mile.............. the WWF’s Attitude Era.

 

But it’s all apples to oranges. The Attitude Era is LONG GONE and the WWE is total crap in today’s world as the ratings suggest.
 

There can be confused humans telling“Tranny Story Time” to 8 year olds, but the same 8 year olds can’t see Cena become a heel because of Make a Wish and the Hollyweird pervs. Ok got it.

 

I am not trying to disrespect you Koko, but I have to tell it like it is.

 

Even Stone Cold said they would never turn Cena heel. I just respectfully disagree and say you are both wrong.

 

Make no mistake, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out why Vince never allowed it (or at least allow a full turn; Cena did get heelish on occasion.)

 

Hell, I think Cena himself would love to have had a run as a heel. The SuperCena schtick got old a decade ago. Even the perennial jobbers (like Damien Sandow with his Money in the Bank cash-in) beat the hell out of Cena for 95% of matches, just so he could overcome and win. He wrestled the same match, telling the same story, against everyone - regardless of their status (jobber, main eventer, etc.)

 

This is the same problem many had/have with Roman Reigns. Vince was trying to make him another SuperCena who overcomes, rather than just letting him be a badass with some personality. Pulling Reigns out of the title picture after his cancer recurrence/return was a good move, but they still need to book him to do more than turn into SuperRoman and overcome.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Koko78

[njbuff]

2 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Make no mistake, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out why Vince never allowed it (or at least allow a full turn, Cena did get heelish on occasion.)

 

Hell, I think Cena himself would love to have had a run as a heel. The SuperCena schtick got old a decade ago. Hell, even the perennial jobbers (like Damien Sandow with his Money in the Bank cash-in) beat the hell out of Cena for 95% of matches, just so he could overcome and win.

 

This is the same problem many had/have with Roman Reigns. Vince was trying to make him another SuperCena who overcomes, rather than just letting him be a badass with some personality. Pulling Reigns out of the title picture after his cancer recurrence/return was a good move, but they still need to book him to do more than turn into SuperRoman and overcome.

Are Triple H and Stephanie as out of touch as Vince?

 

Do they kiss his azz and are overruled?

 

 

[Koko78]

11 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Are Triple H and Stephanie as out of touch as Vince?

 

Do they kiss his azz and are overruled?

 

No. Doubtful. Yes.

 

If you want to see what HHH can do with a promotion, check out NXT. It's consistently the best show WWE puts out. They build stars out of their performers, put on good-to-great matches weekly, put out great PPV events that don't last 7 hours, actually respect continuity, have a non-McMahon authority figure who is used appropriately (and only when it makes sense for him to intervene), and long-term storylines that usually make sense. In short, it's not a chore to watch NXT like it was Raw or Smackdown.

 

Vince doesn't interfere in NXT programming, and it shows. There's a glaringly huge difference between how NXT uses a performer and how Raw/Smackdown misuses the same character after they're called up to the 'main roster'.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Koko78

[Bray Wyatt]

10 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

No. Doubtful. Yes.

 

If you want to see what HHH can do with a promotion, check out NXT. It's consistently the best show WWE puts out. They build stars out of their performers, put on good-to-great matches weekly, put out great PPV events that don't last 7 hours, actually respect continuity, have a non-McMahon authority figure who is used appropriately (and only when it makes sense for him to intervene), and long-term storylines that usually make sense. In short, it's not a chore to watch NXT like it was Raw or Smackdown.

 

Vince doesn't interfere in NXT programming, and it shows. There's a glaringly huge difference between how NXT uses a performer and how Raw/Smackdown misuses the same character after they're called up to the 'main roster'.

 

It is interesting how that they are hyping up NXT to be a "third" brand, how will they do the rosters and is the promotion to main roster gone?

 

On another note, Raw hasnt been decent (more likely because Heyman is involved) but Smackdown has been the show with a lot of these problems. (I think Vince is more involved with this show since they went to FOX)

[May Day 10]

I have probably said it before in this thread, but I just can't get into it.  I have tried.  Usually around wrestlemania I get the itch, give it a shot, then watch a Raw or 2 after before losing interest.

 

It is so vanilla and boring.  Also predictable.  It is just framed as a legitimate fake sport at this point with real champions and feats and such, but I just cant buy it.  I need good and evil (and various shades of it) stealing titles, raising stakes, etc.  When I did watch, I thought the 'fake sport' matches were the worst and most boring.  Usually involving Jericho, Benoit, The Rock, etc.  

 

The 3-Hour Raw episodes are unwatchable.  It is diluted and boring.  Nothing really happens of consequence, commercials during all the matches, and I just cant spend 3 hours watching that.  I dont even know when Smackdown is on.  Is that 3 hours too?  And yeah, a 5 pr 6 hour Wrestlemania is comical and out of control.  Maybe split it up into 2 events or something?  Just to watch Brock Lesnar powerblast someone at the end?

 

I realize it is a bit sexist, but I can't take the over-emphasis and bulk on the woman's side.  I will say though, the best match of the last Wrestlemania I watched was a Charlotte Flair match

[Koko78]

4 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said:

It is interesting how that they are hyping up NXT to be a "third" brand, how will they do the rosters and is the promotion to main roster gone?

 

They try to hype NXT as a third brand, but the reality is that it will always be the developmental feeder brand. However, the way HHH (or his Paul Levesque gimmick) runs it, I have hope for WWE after Vince is gone. It's the best show they put out. I enjoy watching it. I couldn't care less if I miss a Raw or Smackdown anymore.

 

4 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

I have probably said it before in this thread, but I just can't get into it.  I have tried.  Usually around wrestlemania I get the itch, give it a shot, then watch a Raw or 2 after before losing interest.

 

It is so vanilla and boring.  Also predictable.  It is just framed as a legitimate fake sport at this point with real champions and feats and such, but I just cant buy it.  I need good and evil (and various shades of it) stealing titles, raising stakes, etc.  When I did watch, I thought the 'fake sport' matches were the worst and most boring.  Usually involving Jericho, Benoit, The Rock, etc.  

 

The 3-Hour Raw episodes are unwatchable.  It is diluted and boring.  Nothing really happens of consequence, commercials during all the matches, and I just cant spend 3 hours watching that.  I dont even know when Smackdown is on.  Is that 3 hours too?  And yeah, a 5 pr 6 hour Wrestlemania is comical and out of control.  Maybe split it up into 2 events or something?  Just to watch Brock Lesnar powerblast someone at the end?

 

I realize it is a bit sexist, but I can't take the over-emphasis and bulk on the woman's side.  I will say though, the best match of the last Wrestlemania I watched was a Charlotte Flair match

 

Watching Raw is a chore. Smackdown is better, mostly because it's shorter.

 

NXT is great. AEW is a great show as well - it's not as polished on the production-end, but they put on a great weekly show, have compelling stories running, and the matches (especially tag team matches) do not follow the same exact script, unlike WWE. AEW allows the performers to be themselves in their characters to get over, other than being forced to follow a script as to how Vince thinks their characters should be.

[apuszczalowski]

I found what really lost me were the stupid stories/angles that the WWE would do that had nothing to do with wrestling and just involved bad acting and pointless wastes of time. Watching 'wrestlers' get married in the ring, totally believable that nothing is going to happen and it will all go smoothly. Vince uses too much soap opera stories thinking people care or need to see it instead of just good wrasslin'

[Fr. Jerk]

Looking forward to these:

 

 

[Koko78]

Was 3 weeks behind in watching AEW Dynamite episodes, so I decided to catch up last night.

 

After watching a few weeks of no crowds for WWE shows, watching the last AEW show in front of an audience (March 11) was a stark contrast. I never realized how much having a hot crowd makes a TV wrestling show better.

[apuszczalowski]

Wtf? Did not know that Edge was married to Beth Phoenix in real life

[Bray Wyatt]

soooooo Firefly funhouse match, amazing! I am obviously biased though ?

[apuszczalowski]

3 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said:

soooooo Firefly funhouse match, amazing! I am obviously biased though ?

Didn't watch any of it but read about it, was it really a match or just a bunch of pre taped videos and Cena being attacked from behind?

[T master]

Wow you know the sports world is hurting when 1 of the lead stories on the NFL network sight is about Gronk winning the 24/7 WWE championship ! When did they invent that belt & just what does it mean 24/7 Champ ?

 

I don't know if all those guys were quarantined at the same time so they could do the match but Gronk has 1 more thing to add to his trophy case !!

 

Watch this if this is the high point of our day in sports it's pretty boring to say the least & if someone has already written about this sorry !!

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108468/article/rob-gronkowski-is-your-new-wwe-247-champion

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

6 hours ago, T master said:

Wow you know the sports world is hurting when 1 of the lead stories on the NFL network sight is about Gronk winning the 24/7 WWE championship ! When did they invent that belt & just what does it mean 24/7 Champ ?

 

I don't know if all those guys were quarantined at the same time so they could do the match but Gronk has 1 more thing to add to his trophy case !!

 

Watch this if this is the high point of our day in sports it's pretty boring to say the least & if someone has already written about this sorry !!

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108468/article/rob-gronkowski-is-your-new-wwe-247-champion

 

 

The 24/7 belt was introduced not too long ago by Mick Foley during one of his appearances. Its basically the return of the 'Hardcore Championship' where the title can be won by anyone, at any time, as long as they can pin the current title holder with a WWE referee present.

 

From the clip i saw there was a group of wrestlers attacking the current champ below the area where Gronk was hosting from, he had said he wanted to win a title so he jumped off the elevated platform into the crowd, they sadly fell over and were all unable to get up while he crawled over the pile to pin the champ and win the belt. In the unscripted real world, he probably would have been caught, or bounced off a few of those guys who would have just kept beating the other guy instead of falling over like bowling pins and being unable to get back up.....