My sources- Lesean McCoy will no longer be a Buffalo Bill

[BADOLBILZ]

There's a difference between Whaley's no worries take and denying that Lawson had a shoulder injury that would require surgery at a future date, which Whaley never did. I get that some less knowing fans freaked out when they heard, but the injury was well known to those that needed to know for a long time.

 

Ultimately, it was a calculated risk, based on Lawson's previous experience and accepted medical practice, that he could play the season. Nothing more than that. At least to those that honestly take all of it as just entertainment, which I'm sure you do.

 

TSW is pure entertainment.

 

The Buffalo Bills are pay for play.......different story and results matter.

[K-9]

 

TSW is pure entertainment.

 

The Buffalo Bills are pay for play.......different story and results matter.

I don't buy that at all; the part about TSW being just entertainment for you. Nobody puts out that much snark, vindictiveness, and animosity when engaged in an "entertaining" pursuit. Unless, of course, you find that in itself entertaining.

[Deranged Rhino]

I don't buy that at all; the part about TSW being just entertainment for you. Nobody puts out that much snark, vindictiveness, and animosity when engaged in an "entertaining" pursuit. Unless, of course, you find that in itself entertaining.

 

Bingo.

 

The lady doth protest too much.

[K-9]

If you don't draft a QB, you can't be held responsible if he busts.

 

Between that and Whaley's snake oil "we don't have a chance at good QB prospects" in the Pegula's ear, he may never be fired. After all, there's no way he could find a QB with this awesome roster he's built.

 

Bills general manager Doug Whaley downplayed the injury when speaking to reporters after the selection.

"[Our] medical staff cleared him, said he can play," Whaley said. "Now, if something happens, it's going to happen. But it's nothing that we're real worried about or we wouldn't have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15426426/buffalo-bills-draft-pick-shaq-lawson-denies-needs-shoulder-surgery

Surely you're not offering Whaley's remarks as proof that he lied about Lawson's shoulder, are you? If so, I have to question your ability to parse the language without letting your anti-Whaley bias get in the way.

 

There is no need to revisit the Lawson shoulder issue. You either accept it was a calculated gamble that he would could play the season and have surgery afterwards or not. There is more than sufficient evidence to suggest they had a reasonable expectation for that to happen. It didn't. Time to let it go.

[BUFFALOTONE]

There's a difference between Whaley's no worries take and denying that Lawson had a shoulder injury that would require surgery at a future date, which Whaley never did. I get that some less knowing fans freaked out when they heard, but the injury was well known to those that needed to know for a long time.

 

Ultimately, it was a calculated risk, based on Lawson's previous experience and accepted medical practice, that he could play the season. Nothing more than that. At least to those that honestly take all of it as just entertainment, which I'm sure you do.

It's no use in harping on this.. he feels wronged cause he wasn't aware of the injury. We are obviously making this up.

[Maury Ballstein]

Its definetly entertainment just don't be the guy that says

 

Let's trade Mario for Skelton

Lesean McCoy stinks and we gave him too much money

The Sultan died from spleen surgery

Jordan Palmer has flawless footwork

[FireChan]

There's a difference between Whaley's no worries take and denying that Lawson had a shoulder injury that would require surgery at a future date, which Whaley never did. I get that some less knowing fans freaked out when they heard, but the injury was well known to those that needed to know for a long time.

 

Ultimately, it was a calculated risk, based on Lawson's previous experience and accepted medical practice, that he could play the season. Nothing more than that. At least to those that honestly take all of it as just entertainment, which I'm sure you do.

 

Surely you're not offering Whaley's remarks as proof that he lied about Lawson's shoulder, are you? If so, I have to question your ability to parse the language without letting your anti-Whaley bias get in the way.

 

There is no need to revisit the Lawson shoulder issue. You either accept it was a calculated gamble that he would could play the season and have surgery afterwards or not. There is more than sufficient evidence to suggest they had a reasonable expectation for that to happen. It didn't. Time to let it go.

There's no need to question anything.

 

You're pretending that the double-speak was not a roundabout way of not-so-subtly implying there was no injury to worry about.

 

I wonder if you can seriously tell me he wasn't intentionally misleading the fans with his statement, and that the conclusion that he's scot-free because he didn't "technically lie" isn't disingenuous at best.

Edited February 28, 2017 by FireChan

[3rdand12]

 

There's no need to question anything.

 

You're pretending that the double-speak was not a roundabout way of not-so-subtly implying there was no injury to worry about.

 

I wonder if you can seriously tell me he wasn't intentionally misleading the fans with his statement, and that the conclusion that he's scot-free because he didn't "technically lie" isn't disingenuous at best.

on the fence about that honestly. Maybe i have become suspicious of Whaley ?

[K-9]

 

There's no need to question anything.

 

You're pretending that the double-speak was not a roundabout way of not-so-subtly implying there was no injury to worry about.

 

I wonder if you can seriously tell me he wasn't intentionally misleading the fans with his statement, and that the conclusion that he's scot-free because he didn't "technically lie" isn't disingenuous at best.

Nope. Not at all. You're pretending to not get the point.

 

Would you have felt better about at all if Whaley came right out and said Lawson will need surgery at some point in the future? No. Please don't act like a fair amount of damage control wasn't in order. It would have been a bigger schit show than the one we witnessed.

 

It was a foregone conclusion by everybody that needed to know that Lawson would require surgery at some point in the future. This was known long before he played his last game in college.

 

It was also MORE THAN REASONABLE, based on the FACTS and what had TRANSPIRED with Lawson's play over the course of his college career, that he could play his rookie season and have the surgery afterward. He played most of his career in a shoulder harness at a very high level after all. Even had a couple recurring dislocations where he missed a play or two, they'd pop it back into place, and he'd go back in and play at an All American level.

 

This is just rehashing old ground and I don't see the point. You won't be happy until Whaley is sent packing so there's no point in debating this issue. You are literally incapable of unbiased analysis in this regard.

[CommonCents]

Its definetly entertainment just don't be the guy that says

 

Let's trade Mario for Skelton

Lesean McCoy stinks and we gave him too much money

The Sultan died from spleen surgery

Jordan Palmer has flawless footwork

Such and such made the Pro Bowl. As a 152938 alternate.

[3rdand12]

Nope. Not at all. You're pretending to not get the point.

 

Would you have felt better about at all if Whaley came right out and said Lawson will need surgery at some point in the future? No. Please don't act like a fair amount of damage control wasn't in order. It would have been a bigger schit show than the one we witnessed.

 

It was a foregone conclusion by everybody that needed to know that Lawson would require surgery at some point in the future. This was known long before he played his last game in college.

 

It was also MORE THAN REASONABLE, based on the FACTS and what had TRANSPIRED with Lawson's play over the course of his college career, that he could play his rookie season and have the surgery afterward. He played most of his career in a shoulder harness at a very high level after all. Even had a couple recurring dislocations where he missed a play or two, they'd pop it back into place, and he'd go back in and play at an All American level.

 

This is just rehashing old ground and I don't see the point. You won't be happy until Whaley is sent packing so there's no point in debating this issue. You are literally incapable of unbiased analysis in this regard.

This is how it played out.

No question.

I do not have a horse in this race , but Whaley really hung his weenie out the with the pick. Knowing what was coming and backlash via criticism was unavoidable, fan and media alike

[FireChan]

Nope. Not at all. You're pretending to not get the point.

 

Would you have felt better about at all if Whaley came right out and said Lawson will need surgery at some point in the future? No. Please don't act like a fair amount of damage control wasn't in order. It would have been a bigger schit show than the one we witnessed.

 

It was a foregone conclusion by everybody that needed to know that Lawson would require surgery at some point in the future. This was known long before he played his last game in college.

 

It was also MORE THAN REASONABLE, based on the FACTS and what had TRANSPIRED with Lawson's play over the course of his college career, that he could play his rookie season and have the surgery afterward. He played most of his career in a shoulder harness at a very high level after all. Even had a couple recurring dislocations where he missed a play or two, they'd pop it back into place, and he'd go back in and play at an All American level.

 

This is just rehashing old ground and I don't see the point. You won't be happy until Whaley is sent packing so there's no point in debating this issue. You are literally incapable of unbiased analysis in this regard.

Probably not.

 

The argument that it's reasonable he could gut out the rookie year has some merit.

 

I can admit my biases. I don't particularly like Whaley. Whether or not he had good reasons to mislead the general public, when it blew up in his face, he was going to raked over the coals and analyzed and called a liar. That's just the business he's in.

 

Pretending he didn't mislead the fans is your bias, not mine.

Edited February 28, 2017 by FireChan

[BADOLBILZ]

I don't buy that at all; the part about TSW being just entertainment for you. Nobody puts out that much snark, vindictiveness, and animosity when engaged in an "entertaining" pursuit. Unless, of course, you find that in itself entertaining.

 

 

What you perceive is snark, vindictivenes and animosity is just me having fun and busting some balls while keeping the football takes accurate.

 

I honestly have no personal animosity toward anybody here.....not even Deranged Greggo.........but if you can't take a joke stay off the message board of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 17 years(another puppy dead) because THERE AIN'T ANY FAIR WEATHER FANS LEFT HERE.

 

As for you........I think you take yourself a bit too seriously at times, professor.

[K-9]

Probably not.

 

The argument that it's reasonable he could gut out the rookie year has some merit.

 

I can admit my biases. I don't particularly like Whaley. Whether or not he had good reasons to mislead the general public, when it blew up in his face, he was going to raked over the coals and analyzed and called a liar. That's just the business he's in.

 

Pretending he didn't mislead the fans is your bias, not mine.

I'm not pretending at all. Because I don't think he did mislead the public. Especially when I read the quote you posted. Did his medical staff mislead him? And by extension mislead the public? Who knew what and when and why the phuck weren't we informed!!

 

Christ, the drama is embarrassing.

 

I said in the previous post that damage control was called for because of the ensuing schit storm sure to ensue. You exemplify the reasons why to a tee.

 

Moving forward, you may want to adjust your expectations. If you think fans are entitled to the whole truth and nothing but all the time, you are in for a rude awakening. Which is why I don't think Whaley or any other purveyor of goods and services is above the kind of spin control we see at times. I not only don't pretend that he doesn't mislead fans, I expect him to. Especially in this fishbowl of a market.

Edited February 28, 2017 by K-9

[FireChan]

I'm not pretending at all. Because I don't think he did mislead the public. Especially when I read the quote you posted. Did his medical staff mislead him? And by extension mislead the public? Who knew what and when and why the phuck weren't we informed!!

 

Christ, the drama is embarrassing.

 

I said in the previous post that damage control was called for because of the ensuing schit storm sure to ensue. You exemplify the reasons why to a tee.

 

Moving forward, you may want to adjust your expectations. If you think fans are entitled to the whole truth and nothing but all the time, you are in for a rude awakening. Which is why I don't think Whaley or any other purveyor of goods and services is above the kind of spin control we see at times. I don't only don't pretend that he doesn't mislead fans, I expect him to. Especially in this fishbowl of a market.

Okay, I think this is our disconnect. You say that everybody in the know knew he would need to have surgery at some point.

 

"But it's nothing that we're real worried about or we wouldn't have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

Tyler Dunne ✔ @TyDunne

Whaley on Lawson's shoulder: Medical staff cleared him and said he can play. "There's nothing we're worried about."

 

These lines imply the exact opposite. So if Whaley knew that Shaq would need surgery at some point (your claim), came out and said there's nothing to worry about after a report came out that Shaq would need surgery, and then months later he gets surgery, you expect no backlash? You don't think the casual fan got hoodwinked by Whaley saying there's nothing to worry about, then finding out there was in fact something to worry about?

 

I don't expect the truth. I know we won't get it. What I won't do is say "please Sir, can I have some more," when Doug Whaley pisses on my head and tells me it's raining. If you're gonna lie and spin zone, at least do it well.

Edited February 28, 2017 by FireChan

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm not pretending at all. Because I don't think he did mislead the public. Especially when I read the quote you posted. Did his medical staff mislead him? And by extension mislead the public? Who knew what and when and why the phuck weren't we informed!!

 

Christ, the drama is embarrassing.

 

I said in the previous post that damage control was called for because of the ensuing schit storm sure to ensue. You exemplify the reasons why to a tee.

 

Moving forward, you may want to adjust your expectations. If you think fans are entitled to the whole truth and nothing but all the time, you are in for a rude awakening. Which is why I don't think Whaley or any other purveyor of goods and services is above the kind of spin control we see at times. I not only don't pretend that he doesn't mislead fans, I expect him to. Especially in this fishbowl of a market.

 

 

They selected Shaq with the idea that he was going to be an impact starter for them as a rookie so not buying the idea that they felt there was a strong chance he was going to need surgery before the season.........it was not news that Rex needed to win and that he needed those defensive players they took early to make an impact.......they didn't just mislead the fans.....they drafted for need and selected damaged goods. Fortunately Zach Brown and Lorax FAR exceeded expectations.......otherwise the 27th best defense might have been the worst.

Okay, I think this is our disconnect. You say that everybody in the know knew he would need to have surgery at some point.

 

"But it's nothing that we're real worried about or we wouldn't have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

Tyler Dunne ✔ @TyDunne

Whaley on Lawson's shoulder: Medical staff cleared him and said he can play. "There's nothing we're worried about."

 

These lines imply the exact opposite. So if Whaley knew that Shaq would need surgery at some point (your claim), came out and said there's nothing to worry about after a report came out that Shaq would need surgery, and then months later he gets surgery, you expect no backlash? You don't think the casual fan got hoodwinked by Whaley saying there's nothing to worry about, then finding out there was in fact something to worry about?

 

I don't expect the truth. I know we won't get it. What I won't do is say "please Sir, can I have some more," when Doug Whaley pisses on my head and tells me it's raining. If you're gonna lie and spin zone, at least do it well.

 

 

It's kind of you to try to point out the disconnect but K-9 is simply full doberman lock-jaw on that take......

[K-9]

 

 

They selected Shaq with the idea that he was going to be an impact starter for them as a rookie so not buying the idea that they felt there was a strong chance he was going to need surgery before the season.........it was not news that Rex needed to win and that he needed those defensive players they took early to make an impact.......they didn't just mislead the fans.....they drafted for need and selected damaged goods. Fortunately Zach Brown and Lorax FAR exceeded expectations.......otherwise the 27th best defense might have been the worst.

 

 

It's kind of you to try to point out the disconnect but K-9 is simply full doberman lock-jaw on that take......

They felt the opposite; that the surgery could wait until after the season. Which I've repeated several times. Ironically, he could have played with the harness like he did at Clemson.

 

I agree. It is nice for FireChan to point that out. It further underscores my point.

 

Simple fact is, the butt hurt fan base was outraged that the hyped up #1 pick wasn't gonna be available for a portion of his rookie year and somebody has to pay for that dammit! We were LIED to! Manipulated! Typical overreaction by a naive, misinformed, and frustrated fan base that demands a pound of flesh when it's not necessary.

 

They took a gamble and lost. Rational people readily understand these things happen. Others, not so much.

 

As to the rest of your post, I can appreciate the irony of Lawson's injury clearing a better path for Alexander to exploit. I'm just gonna dismiss the "damaged goods" and how much worse our defense might have been. You tend to move the goal posts and conflate points in your arguments I've noticed. You can save that for others more inclined to that kind of discussion.

Edited February 28, 2017 by K-9

[K-9]

Okay, I think this is our disconnect. You say that everybody in the know knew he would need to have surgery at some point.

 

"But it's nothing that we're real worried about or we wouldn't have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

Tyler Dunne ✔ @TyDunne

Whaley on Lawson's shoulder: Medical staff cleared him and said he can play. "There's nothing we're worried about."

 

These lines imply the exact opposite. So if Whaley knew that Shaq would need surgery at some point (your claim), came out and said there's nothing to worry about after a report came out that Shaq would need surgery, and then months later he gets surgery, you expect no backlash? You don't think the casual fan got hoodwinked by Whaley saying there's nothing to worry about, then finding out there was in fact something to worry about?

 

I don't expect the truth. I know we won't get it. What I won't do is say "please Sir, can I have some more," when Doug Whaley pisses on my head and tells me it's raining. If you're gonna lie and spin zone, at least do it well.

Would it make you feel better to know Lawson could have played with the shoulder harness like he did for most of his college career? That was an option after all.

 

Question: what does Whaley mean by "nothing to worry about?" I submit what he means by that may be entirely different than what you take it to mean. Worry to Whaley might mean CAREER THREATENING, which there was never any indication of so, nothing to worry about. Whereas you may take it to mean SEASON THREATENING, which may be everything to worry about on your scale.

 

Sorry, I just don't feel it rises to your level of outrage.

[BADOLBILZ]

They felt the opposite; that the surgery could wait until after the season. Which I've repeated several times. Ironically, he could have played with the harness like he did at Clemson.

 

I agree. It is nice for FireChan to point that out. It further underscores my point.

 

Simple fact is, the butt hurt fan base was outraged that the hyped up #1 pick wasn't gonna be available for a portion of his rookie year and somebody has to pay for that dammit! We were LIED to! Manipulated! Typical overreaction by a naive, misinformed, and frustrated fan base that demands a pound of flesh when it's not necessary.

 

They took a gamble and lost. Rational people readily understand these things happen. Others, not so much.

 

 

Yeah you'll get that when you select a low ceiling player because you need him to fill an immediate need and then hype him as an "immediate starter" and then they aren't available to fill the need.......and when they do finally show up that low ceiling is on display.

 

THAT will bring ire.

 

Rational people understand THAT.

 

You.........you think it's the fans fault for unrealistic expectations.

[K-9]

 

 

Yeah you'll get that when you select a low ceiling player because you need him to fill an immediate need and then hype him as an "immediate starter" and then they aren't available to fill the need.......and when they do finally show up that low ceiling is on display.

 

THAT will bring ire.

 

Rational people understand THAT.

 

You.........you think it's the fans fault for unrealistic expectations.

We can agree that drafting for need is usually not the way to go. Very seldom in fact. And I agree Whaley has shoehorned need into his picks as times.

 

I don't agree, at all, that Lawson was considered a low ceiling player. Not in the least in fact.

 

And I don't blame anything on the fans. I just don't think that unmet expectations should always rise to the level of outrage seen too often on display here and elsewhere. Tends to get in the way of rational analysis and discussion. But the fans are entirely blameless in the scheme of things. We're just consumers, after all.