Funkycold Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Lets not forget trading 2 picks to Dalla to unload Matt Cassel, trading up in the 3rd round to draft TJ Graham, verifying that he scouted NC St and TJ was the guy he targeted? This yr drafting 2 guys that had injuries: Shaq, Listenbee, then a guy you knew would not even dress this yr in Cardel. I think we can all agree we are not the Pats, we can not afford luxury picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Broken back Chris Williams getting a boatload of money for 4 games!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Here's Doug Whaley eye for talent for QBs List Kevin Kolb Ej Manual Jeff Tual McCown Matt Cassell Cardele Jones Now that's a talent evaluator, lol. How can we trust him to find us a franchise QB. Blow it up fire everyone starting with Russ Brandon. BTW he doesn't get credit for Tyrod that was Rex Another thing saying we are in QB purgatory while letting Dak Prescott pass us by. What a complete jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I love how he doesnt get credit for any good or decent moves he makes either, it was someone elses idea. Harvin and ik were whaley but tyrod and incognito were rex. Makes sense, looks like the agendas and crusades against whaley are out in full force now that rex and tyrod are gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley. For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense. I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more. 1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy) 2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays 3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins 4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead) 5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder 6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice 7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ) if you get rid of the ej stuff. is that the best you can do? Fred was shot, Shaq is now fine, Percy was a cheap risk this time. Whaley isn't perfect but no GM is. If you keep comparing General managers against the non existent perfect one you will be disappointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Although not disturbed by Rex's firing (defense went south and poor game time decisions), I think the problem starts with Whaley. For the year, we've been hit by the spin that were a quality team without discipline. Really, what's so talented about our defense. I don't pretend to be an expert on this or remember all the moves, so please chime in with more. 1) Drafting EJ Manuel 1st and never realizing that he's not a player... (Continuing to fail to realize that EJ has neither escapability, pocket presence, or accuracy) 2) Spending a fortune on Dareus, who barely plays 3) Doubling down on EJ by giving up multiple first round picks for Watkins 4) Getting and then keeping Karlos WIlliams (lost Fred Jackson instead) 5) Drafting Shaq with a bum shoulder 6) Percy Harvin not just once, but twice 7) Not prioritizing quarterbacks in draft picks (besides EJ) Hard to say drafting Watkins was a mistake. When he has been healthy, he has been outstanding. No way to predict at draft time that Watkins would be plagued by injuries. Karlos Williams was a 5th round pick who they got one year of very good production from before he self-destructed and Fred Jackson, though beloved here, was pretty much done when he left. They didn't pay Percy Harvin much - if you want to kill Whaley for missing on a mid-tier FA, I guess you can. I'll grant that EJ was a poor choice, but as you and others stated, the real damage was shying away from drafting other QBs after they took Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThE BiScUiT Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anything can be skewed when taken out of context. For example are you also going to kill john Elway for having Trevor Siemen and Paxton Lynch as the only QBS on a Denver roster that is clearly a super bowl contender? How do you think they do with Tyrod under center this year? In my opinion they probably finish with 11 to 12 wins. Point being is that Whaley has tried to improve the position but it's not as easy as running to the store and picking up a new qb. Choices are limited...see over half the teams in the nfl. By no means do I think whaley has done an excellent job...but I do believe the roster has been upgraded significantly over his tenure. The only issue I think that is glaring is the lack of depth on both lines and possibly at saftey. I believe coaching and game management were the failures in 2016 and I was a rex guy. Even the play calling on offense has been suspect in my opinion ....particularly in the dolphins game ...it was clear to me that the staff did not understand situational football. Same with the Raiders game to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Lets not forget trading 2 picks to Dalla to unload Matt Cassel, trading up in the 3rd round to draft TJ Graham, verifying that he scouted NC St and TJ was the guy he targeted? This yr drafting 2 guys that had injuries: Shaq, Listenbee, then a guy you knew would not even dress this yr in Cardel. I think we can all agree we are not the Pats, we can not afford luxury picks Graham was Buddy. They have a 5th from dallas this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I'm in take him or leave him mode with Whaley currently. To beat a dead horse again, it is a factionalized organization that doesn't work together. If Whaley and the coach were truly on the same page maybe it would make a difference but we now have two coaches in a row who seem to be at odds with him. Who is at fault? If we move on from Whaley, who do we bring in? Are you ready to admit/ accept we are in full rebuild mode? It would have to be done ASAP or we will be that much farther behind in picking from the pool of coaches out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Anything can be skewed when taken out of context. For example are you also going to kill john Elway for having Trevor Siemen and Paxton Lynch as the only QBS on a Denver roster that is clearly a super bowl contender? How do you think they do with Tyrod under center this year? In my opinion they probably finish with 11 to 12 wins. Point being is that Whaley has tried to improve the position but it's not as easy as running to the store and picking up a new qb. Choices are limited...see over half the teams in the nfl. By no means do I think whaley has done an excellent job...but I do believe the roster has been upgraded significantly over his tenure. The only issue I think that is glaring is the lack of depth on both lines and possibly at saftey. I believe coaching and game management were the failures in 2016 and I was a rex guy. Even the play calling on offense has been suspect in my opinion ....particularly in the dolphins game ...it was clear to me that the staff did not understand situational football. Same with the Raiders game to some extent.I realize this is a major problem we keep comparing Whaley to these horrible Gms we had before he came here. That's why he seems to get a pass from most people. I was the same way but now I realize he's below average compared to other gms in the NFL.. He needs to be judged comparable to others in his profession. So far he's built a team full of misfits and quitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 If that's all you have. I'm in good shape . I thought you were going to say draft Kelsay , schoebal ,maybin ,whitner or maybe pay oswilder 125 mil to sit the bench.... People are incredible too funny I understand your point, but wanted to chime in for those that don't: while Whaley did not draft any of the players that you listed, Kelsay, Schoebel and Whitner were all very good, not great players. I never understood why Chris Kelsay and Aaron Schoebel took so much heat from fans. The thing that made people unfairly hate on Whitner was that they passed on Haloti Ngata to take Whitner - dumb move, but not Whitner's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Trading Sheppard for Hughes Picking InCognito off trash heap Trading Kiko for McCoy Ronald Darby - granted looked alot better before this year Tyrod Taylor Letting Byrd Walk Zach Brown Lorenzo Alexander Dustin Hopkins Here's Doug Whaley eye for talent for QBs List Kevin Kolb Ej Manual Jeff Tual McCown Matt Cassell Cardele Jones Now that's a talent evaluator, lol. How can we trust him to find us a franchise QB. Blow it up fire everyone starting with Russ Brandon. BTW he doesn't get credit for Tyrod that was Rex Another thing saying we are in QB purgatory while letting Dak Prescott pass us by. What a complete jk. Yeah of course he doesnt get credit for Tyrod. You have to stay on narrative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 We did not give up "multiple" first round draft picks for Watkins. We EXCHANGED firsts with Cleveland (that's not giving up or losing one) and gave up one first plus a lower round pick. Whaley's made some mistakes, such as banking on EJ based on one bowl game performance, but he's also made great trades (Shady, Hughes) and signed the likes of Alexander, who became a Pro Bowler here following a very average career. And what's wrong with the Gilleslee signing? I will be down on him if he breaks the bank on overrated Gilmore. And what's with blaming Nix's moves on Whaley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Trading Sheppard for Hughes Picking InCognito off trash heap Trading Kiko for McCoy Ronald Darby - granted looked alot better before this year Tyrod Taylor Letting Byrd Walk Zach Brown Lorenzo Alexander Dustin Hopkins Yeah of course he doesnt get credit for Tyrod. You have to stay on narrative Before your appearance Major, all I could think about was almost everyone on this thread has NEVER been a decision-maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Wow I hope ownership reads this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Trading Sheppard for Hughes Picking InCognito off trash heap Trading Kiko for McCoy Ronald Darby - granted looked alot better before this year Tyrod Taylor Letting Byrd Walk Zach Brown Lorenzo Alexander Dustin Hopkins Yeah of course he doesnt get credit for Tyrod. You have to stay on narrative I think the point of the post a few spots above is Whaley's good moves were mostly due to good fortune, not accumen. Grigson called him about Hughes. Kelly called him about McCoy, but he called McCoy about Brown. Do Bills get Tyrod or Richie without Rex? His drafts are weak. The FAs are decent, but it's uncertain how much influence the coach had in bringing those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think the point of the post a few spots above is Whaley's good moves were mostly due to good fortune, not accumen. Grigson called him about Hughes. Kelly called him about McCoy, but he called McCoy about Brown. Do Bills get Tyrod or Richie without Rex? His drafts are weak. The FAs are decent, but it's uncertain how much influence the coach had in bringing those players. That is spin from someone pushing a narrative When you try to dimish the successes because it hurts what you are trying tk say. Fact is Whaley has been like any other GM in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 That is spin from someone pushing a narrative When you try to dimish the successes because it hurts what you are trying tk say. Fact is Whaley has been like any other GM in the NFL He is what his record says. A middle of the road GM who's been helped by an owner's check book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) He is what his record says. A middle of the road GM who's been helped by an owner's check book.He is any GM. That what they all are right up until they find a franchise QB And Doug is a .500 gm that has yet to pick his coach Edited January 2, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) He is what his record says. A middle of the road GM who's been helped by an owner's check book. So a .500 record then. That is the most overused cliche in sports. Bill Walsh was 8-24 after 2 seasons. Was he what his record said at the time, or was he building something and part of the process was occuring. Not saying Whaley is Walsh. Edited January 2, 2017 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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