jr1 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The Bills are 9th in points per game and people attack Tyrod's Wonderlic score and say he has Diabetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBills Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Tyrod Taylor sucks The Bills are 9th in points per game and people attack Tyrod's Wonderlic score and say he has Diabetes The Bills broke a record for rushing TD's this year. So, I will give you one guess where most of those points came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Tyrod Taylor sucks The Bills broke a record for rushing TD's this year. So, I will give you one guess where most of those points came from. Tyrod Taylor had his hands on the most 14 passing an 6 rushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Taylor is 27th in passing yardage. I would not pay $27.5M next season for that, renegotiate or let walk. JMO http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Taylor is 27th in passing yardage. I would not pay $27.5M next season for that, renegotiate or let walk. JMO http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing Taylor is 32nd in pass attempts. Do the math what would his YPA need to be to be at the middle of yardage rankings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Taylor is 32nd in pass attempts. Do the math what would his YPA need to be to be at the middle of yardage rankings? The way he is over throwing receivers this year , and not seeing open receivers, more attempts could be brutal, as in 3 and out. Edited December 21, 2016 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 So...now Tyrod was put into a position to fail? I'm honestly struggling to keep up with these excuses. Well he certainly isn't in an environment where he or any other QB not named Tom Brady is going to put up big passing numbers. In fact, he is not in an offense where decent quarterbacks are going to put up even average passing numbers. Face it. You can't even refute these numbers. Roman's offenses' passing rating over his entire career as an offensive coordinator 2011 - ranked 29 2012 - ranked 23 2013 - ranked 30 2014 - ranked 30 2015 - ranked 28 2016 - ranked 31 so far Yep. All Tyrod's fault. You can't talk your way around those stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Interesting... http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr He was 7th last year for comparison... 70.3 versus 65.9 this year... Shows the error built into statistics. There is always Truth lost in translation as you go from what actually happens on the field to a statistic. It's an inaccurate way to try and assess who is doing what and how well. It's a lot easier to just focus on Tyrod and watch him play football. Will show you all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 When's the parade, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Well he certainly isn't in an environment where he or any other QB not named Tom Brady is going to put up big passing numbers. In fact, he is not in an offense where decent quarterbacks are going to put up even average passing numbers. Face it. You can't even refute these numbers. Roman's offenses' passing rating over his entire career as an offensive coordinator 2011 - ranked 29 2012 - ranked 23 2013 - ranked 30 2014 - ranked 30 2015 - ranked 28 2016 - ranked 31 so far Yep. All Tyrod's fault. You can't talk your way around those stats. I am off the tyrod bandwagon and have been for five weeks...BUT, this argument does hold water regardless of how people feel about TT. An offense that has never produced an aerial attack and we expect him to light it up in the air? Now...Polish Dave...how do you account for the fact that we have all seen WR's / TE's wide open on the field and TT not finding them? That cannot be a product of Roman's poor design, can it? Is the system designed to miss open players? I cannot see how that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) The way he is over throwing receivers this year , and not seeing open receivers, more attempts could be brutal, as in 3 and out. Extra attempts will probably produce same YPA, TD per attempt and INT per attempt and his passing yards and his position on passing yards charts will adjust accordingly. It really is simple math and not rocket science. I am off the tyrod bandwagon and have been for five weeks...BUT, this argument does hold water regardless of how people feel about TT. An offense that has never produced an aerial attack and we expect him to light it up in the air? Now...Polish Dave...how do you account for the fact that we have all seen WR's / TE's wide open on the field and TT not finding them? That cannot be a product of Roman's poor design, can it? Is the system designed to miss open players? I cannot see how that is possible. How many of those open players are open because the play direction was already determined? If Tyrod rolling to the right are you counting WR on the far left and middle open as their defenders move toward the play? You expect him to roll right and throw across his body while doing so? So we are clear. If and when the Bills change coordinators and run a traditional offense Tyrod will not be the QB for that offense. He is the horse for the course so to speak. Edited December 21, 2016 by jms62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Extra attempts will probably produce same YPA, TD per attempt and INT per attempt and his passing yards and his position on passing yards charts will adjust accordingly. It really is simple math and not rocket science. How many of those open players are open because the play direction was already determined? If Tyrod rolling to the right are you counting WR on the far left and middle open as their defenders move toward the play? You expect him to roll right and throw across his body while doing so? So we are clear. If and when the Bills change coordinators and run a traditional offense Tyrod will not be the QB for that offense. He is the horse for the course so to speak. No I'm referring to sitting in the pocket and misses guys...its a routine joke in our season ticket section. No, none of us are offensive QB's or coordinators but we can see that there are guys open routinely and he does not see them. I see other QB's sit in the pocket and find open WR's...why can our guy not? And to your last point...I can easily see a situation where Rex is kept, Lynn is kept as OC and institutes his own offense and Tyrod is still their QB...why is that not an option? (obviously Lynn would still be run first, but he is currently using Romans playbook and designs...I'm sure he has his own that he would implement - which would tell us if Taylor is truly being held back by the evidence that Roman does not know how to create an aerial offense) Edited December 21, 2016 by PaattMaann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Well he certainly isn't in an environment where he or any other QB not named Tom Brady is going to put up big passing numbers. In fact, he is not in an offense where decent quarterbacks are going to put up even average passing numbers. Face it. You can't even refute these numbers. Roman's offenses' passing rating over his entire career as an offensive coordinator 2011 - ranked 29 2012 - ranked 23 2013 - ranked 30 2014 - ranked 30 2015 - ranked 28 2016 - ranked 31 so far Yep. All Tyrod's fault. You can't talk your way around those stats. Kinda hard for Romans offense to flourish when his QBs are Taylor and Kaepernick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 No I'm referring to sitting in the pocket and misses guys...its a routine joke in our season ticket section. No, none of us are offensive QB's or coordinators but we can see that there are guys open routinely and he does not see them. I see other QB's sit in the pocket and find open WR's...why can our guy not? And to your last point...I can easily see a situation where Rex is kept, Lynn is kept as OC and institutes his own offense and Tyrod is still their QB...why is that not an option? (obviously Lynn would still be run first, but he is currently using Romans playbook and designs...I'm sure he has his own that he would implement - which would tell us if Taylor is truly being held back by the evidence that Roman does not know how to create an aerial offense) Kind of like Rex changing a defense that was working to implement his scheme cause he knows better. If Lynn changes the offense than the gamble is on him. Hard to think of him taking that risk with what amounts to this staffs final roll of the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Kind of like Rex changing a defense that was working to implement his scheme cause he knows better. If Lynn changes the offense than the gamble is on him. Hard to think of him taking that risk with what amounts to this staffs final roll of the dice. I cannot imagine a situation, ever in football, where there is a coordinator change and that new coordinator uses some other guys offense EXCEPT for an in season change. Believe me, if Lynn is kept on as OC, he WILL change the offense to his offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I am off the tyrod bandwagon and have been for five weeks...BUT, this argument does hold water regardless of how people feel about TT. An offense that has never produced an aerial attack and we expect him to light it up in the air? Now...Polish Dave...how do you account for the fact that we have all seen WR's / TE's wide open on the field and TT not finding them? That cannot be a product of Roman's poor design, can it? Is the system designed to miss open players? I cannot see how that is possible. You can't know why without knowing exactly what the play is and how Tyrod is being told to execute it. And NOBODY here knows that. If the coaches thought he was not executing the plays as they are called, then I think they would have sat him (at least for part of a game) and let EJ try to do it. They haven't done that which tells me that they think Tyrod is doing at least okay in what those plays are designed to do. Fans imagine that every NFL passing play is executed like backyard football where the QB drops back and surveys every receiver and chucks the ball to the most open guy. That isn't how it works. That only happens when there is a broken play. And once a play is broken, you can't expect perfect execution. You can't expect a QB to see every open guy in a broken play. Usually the field is cut in half because the qb is out of the pocket and on the run. It is entirely possible and even very likely - that the passing game is too complicated by design or just poorly designed. History suggests it is one of those two or possibly both. No Roman offense has ever had an average or better passing attack. Kinda hard for Romans offense to flourish when his QBs are Taylor and Kaepernick. You want a list? Here is a list of all the quarterbacks who couldn't get an effective passing attack going with Roman's offense: Tyrod Taylor EJ Manuel Alex Smith Colin Kaepernick Colt McCoy Blaine Gabbert Troy Smith Scott Tolzien Josh Johnson How many more quarterbacks do you want to rotate through a Roman system and watch fail as a passer before you shift your blame more towards the coach and the design of his system? He couldn't even get lucky and approach average with any of these guys. If Roman was any good at all at designing a passing game, ANY good at all, don't you think he would have found a little success with at least one of those guys? His highest success in passing was getting to rank number 23 in the NFL. Dude's passing offenses fricken suck. It is irrefutable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 You can't know why without knowing exactly what the play is and how Tyrod is being told to execute it. And NOBODY here knows that. If the coaches thought he was not executing the plays as they are called, then I think they would have sat him (at least for part of a game) and let EJ try to do it. They haven't done that which tells me that they think Tyrod is doing at least okay in what those plays are designed to do. Fans imagine that every NFL passing play is executed like backyard football where the QB drops back and surveys every receiver and chucks the ball to the most open guy. That isn't how it works. That only happens when there is a broken play. And once a play is broken, you can't expect perfect execution. You can't expect a QB to see every open guy in a broken play. Usually the field is cut in half because the qb is out of the pocket and on the run. It is entirely possible and even very likely - that the passing game is too complicated by design or just poorly designed. History suggests it is one of those two or possibly both. No Roman offense has ever had an average or better passing attack. You want a list? Here is a list of all the quarterbacks who couldn't get an effective passing attack going with Roman's offense: Tyrod Taylor EJ Manuel Alex Smith Colin Kaepernick Colt McCoy Blaine Gabbert Troy Smith Scott Tolzien Josh Johnson How many more quarterbacks do you want to rotate through a Roman system and watch fail as a passer before you shift your blame more towards the coach and the design of his system? He couldn't even get lucky and approach average with any of these guys. If Roman was any good at all at designing a passing game, ANY good at all, don't you think he would have found a little success with at least one of those guys? His highest success in passing was getting to rank number 23 in the NFL. Dude's passing offenses fricken suck. It is irrefutable. That is not what I imagine...I imagine a QB dropping back in the pocket and going through his progressions to find an open target...and yes, sometimes these are half field reads based on pre-snap reads. What I am saying, and know is true, is that every game there are multiple times where Tyrod drops back like other QBs in the league, has good to great protection with several seconds to make his reads and throw like other QBs in the league, but he does not actually find the open target that IS actually open like other QBs in the league do. I agree no one here knows what the play call is designed to do specifically, or what Tyrod is being told to do. But I do know that every NFL offense has things called passing plays, where the QB has several options to work through to find the open target, and is expected to find and throw to that open target. I know that indeed our offense has these passing plays, and I know that I have routinely seen Tyrod not be able to locate that guy (not on broken plays, not on scrambles, not on designed one read/half field plays, but actual NFL passing plays where the onus is on the QB to make some reads and make the play) enough that it makes me worry he can never be the guy we would need him to be. I still think your point about Roman offenses never producing even an average aerial attack is a great point. I lean towards the argument "we already know who Tyrod is" despite this point...but I can see the other side of "who knows what Tyrod can do with an actual passing offense"...I just have a hard time reconciling with what we all see on the field on Sundays when he IS asked to be a QB despite of all other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Interesting stats Polish Dave. I really don't want to see it all blown up again. Despite his shortcomings, without a couple crappy defensive performances against the jets and phins, the bills would make the playoffs. I'd rather see them find a way to use TT as a transition until they hit on a draft pick. Starting over with some other re-tread will take them 3 steps back and none forward. I hate to say it, but give it all one more year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) You can't know why without knowing exactly what the play is and how Tyrod is being told to execute it. And NOBODY here knows that. If the coaches thought he was not executing the plays as they are called, then I think they would have sat him (at least for part of a game) and let EJ try to do it. They haven't done that which tells me that they think Tyrod is doing at least okay in what those plays are designed to do. Fans imagine that every NFL passing play is executed like backyard football where the QB drops back and surveys every receiver and chucks the ball to the most open guy. That isn't how it works. That only happens when there is a broken play. And once a play is broken, you can't expect perfect execution. You can't expect a QB to see every open guy in a broken play. Usually the field is cut in half because the qb is out of the pocket and on the run. It is entirely possible and even very likely - that the passing game is too complicated by design or just poorly designed. History suggests it is one of those two or possibly both. No Roman offense has ever had an average or better passing attack. You want a list? Here is a list of all the quarterbacks who couldn't get an effective passing attack going with Roman's offense: Tyrod Taylor EJ Manuel Alex Smith Colin Kaepernick Colt McCoy Blaine Gabbert Troy Smith Scott Tolzien Josh Johnson How many more quarterbacks do you want to rotate through a Roman system and watch fail as a passer before you shift your blame more towards the coach and the design of his system? He couldn't even get lucky and approach average with any of these guys. If Roman was any good at all at designing a passing game, ANY good at all, don't you think he would have found a little success with at least one of those guys? His highest success in passing was getting to rank number 23 in the NFL. Dude's passing offenses fricken suck. It is irrefutable. All those QB's suck and EJ still threw for more yards in 2 games than TT does in 4. Edited December 21, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 They also prevent us from having truly "bad" days on offense like a lot of teams do when their QB isn't throwing the ball well...we have only had 3 games this year when we haven't scored 20 points or more, which I have to believe is one of the best in the NFL...its just too bad the D hasn't played up to par very often this year...Don't worry. After another year of using our first four draft picks on defense, it might be back to where it was before Rex gutted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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