If QB is one of the primary concerns--how can it be fixed?

[BringBackOrton]

 

So.. perfection would be having 2 guys who have never played a down battle it out with the guy who has played in 7 games?

7 games is more than TT had played when he won the job in competition.

[JohnC]

 

So.. perfection would be having 2 guys who have never played a down battle it out with the guy who has played in 7 games?

Perfection? What dream world are you living in. You go with what you think is your best option knowing that you don't know for sure that it is your best option. The unknown world of the NFL personnel decisions are made on a calculated basis.

 

Is TT a better or at least a more knowable option than if the Bills get involved in the market for not very attractive qbs? That's the central issue that is facing this lagging organization. And when you factor in the contract situation and future financial commitments if you decide to go with him then that alters the equation on him.

 

How good is McCarron? I simply don't know. What I do know is that I don't have confidence in TT in running a full scale NFL offense that includes making reads and throwing to receivers while they are in stride. Can he overcome his limitations to the point of at least being a functional full scale NFL qb? I have my doubts. What I do know is until the level of play of qb is elevated to a competent level little is going to change for this bedraggled franchise.

[The Jokeman]

Cut TT and trade for Teddy Bridgewater and draft a QB.

[Maury Ballstein]

Lynch went in the first round ahead of Ragland.

7th round Simien starts over this Lynch guy "we missed on". Lol

[bananathumb]

 

Lynch went in the first round ahead of Ragland.

True but not ahead of Shaq Lawson, who looks lost now that's actually made it on the field.

[The Big Cat]

True but not ahead of Shaq Lawson, who looks lost now that's actually made it on the field.

 

[Mr. WEO]

7 games is more than TT had played when he won the job in competition.

 

TT had been in the league more years than all of those 3 choices combined.

 

Perfection? What dream world are you living in. You go with what you think is your best option knowing that you don't know for sure that it is your best option. The unknown world of the NFL personnel decisions are made on a calculated basis.

 

Is TT a better or at least a more knowable option than if the Bills get involved in the market for not very attractive qbs? That's the central issue that is facing this lagging organization. And when you factor in the contract situation and future financial commitments if you decide to go with him then that alters the equation on him.

 

How good is McCarron? I simply don't know. What I do know is that I don't have confidence in TT in running a full scale NFL offense that includes making reads and throwing to receivers while they are in stride. Can he overcome his limitations to the point of at least being a functional full scale NFL qb? I have my doubts. What I do know is until the level of play of qb is elevated to a competent level little is going to change for this bedraggled franchise.

 

 

Relax. I was quoting another poster--who listed that trifecta as "perfection".

[Alphadawg7]

Jets, Broncos, Browns, Texans, Jags all need a QB. I think any one of them would take a flier on Tyrod if we don't pick up the option. We don't have any other choices at the moment so it's a tough call. They did this to themselves giving him that contract. We could have seen how well he played then franchised him if we couldn't get a deal done. Giving him the extension killed us and I don't know why Whaley isn't being held accountable

 

Accountable? Are you serious? More like Whaley should be getting massive applause for the deal he did with TT. Other teams failed miserably with young QB's and their contracts who flashed potential but were still not yet fully proven. Niners, Dolphins, Texans, etc...hell I would even put Indy on that list who is over paying Luck based on his performance and size of contract. Even teams facing veteran QB decisions did terrible with how they handled the QB contract situation...teams like Chicago and the beloved Cowboys both gave atrocious contracts. Cutler proved to be not worth the money and Romo proved he could never stay healthy to earn the money nor was he clutch when it mattered most. We should be applauding Whaley on navigating a potential land mine situation with Taylor by not over committing to him and putting the team in position to retain him at a solid value to the Bills if he did warrant remaining the starter.

 

This kind of stuff about Whaley is what really blows my mind. Its one of the better things any GM has done in the NFL in regards to a QB since he has been a GM. Funny, you can also say things like Whaley's trade of worthless LB for Hughes was one of the best trades any GM has done since he has been a GM, not to mention the critical trade for McCoy for a LB with 2 bad knees. You would also be hard pressed to find a GM who has found more impact players in unlikely places through unheralded FA signings like Alexander, MG, Incognito, etc. Why Whaley gets so much crap here is beyond me...its not his fault the next Drew Brees has NOT been available during his time as GM...its not his fault our best players can't stay on the field consistently and at the same time.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Tom Savage

[BringBackOrton]

 

Accountable? Are you serious? More like Whaley should be getting massive applause for the deal he did with TT. Other teams failed miserably with young QB's and their contracts who flashed potential but were still not yet fully proven. Niners, Dolphins, Texans, etc...hell I would even put Indy on that list who is over paying Luck based on his performance and size of contract. Even teams facing veteran QB decisions did terrible with how they handled the QB contract situation...teams like Chicago and the beloved Cowboys both gave atrocious contracts. Cutler proved to be not worth the money and Romo proved he could never stay healthy to earn the money nor was he clutch when it mattered most. We should be applauding Whaley on navigating a potential land mine situation with Taylor by not over committing to him and putting the team in position to retain him at a solid value to the Bills if he did warrant remaining the starter.

 

This kind of stuff about Whaley is what really blows my mind. Its one of the better things any GM has done in the NFL in regards to a QB since he has been a GM. Funny, you can also say things like Whaley's trade of worthless LB for Hughes was one of the best trades any GM has done since he has been a GM, not to mention the critical trade for McCoy for a LB with 2 bad knees. You would also be hard pressed to find a GM who has found more impact players in unlikely places through unheralded FA signings like Alexander, MG, Incognito, etc. Why Whaley gets so much crap here is beyond me...its not his fault the next Drew Brees has NOT been available during his time as GM...its not his fault our best players can't stay on the field consistently and at the same time.

That was Nix.

 

David Carr and Teddy Bridgewater have both been available.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Draft one until you get it right. Not first round every year obviously but pick some qbs.

[C.Biscuit97]

Has anyone actually seen Bridgewater play football? He threw 14 tds to 9 INTs last year on a playoff team. Seems like good and smart dude but his passes would be fluttering all over WNY.

[Alphadawg7]

That was Nix.

 

David Carr and Teddy Bridgewater have both been available.

 

LMAO...this is the kind of stupid stuff I am talking about. First off, its Derek Carr, and neither Carr nor Bridgwater were available to be taken by us. One was a late first round QB (Teddy) and the other was an early 2nd round QB. We were picking 9th in the draft and moved up to #4 and took Watkins. Then both were taken before our 2nd round pick and were not available.

 

Don't sit back now that you have seen them play in the NFL and pretend they were top draft picks we passed on...they were not. We were not in position to draft them period. Our draft slot was too high for them AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT and then they went BEFORE we had a chance to draft them.

 

This is the kind of dumb comments on Whaley that drives me nuts. There are 32 teams who passed on Carr...if they knew now what they knew then Raiders would have taken Carr over Mack at #4 in a redraft because he is way more important to the Raiders than Mack. Actually I take that back, Carr would go #1 overall to Houston, so Raiders wouldn't even have a chance at him. This hindsight garbage gets real old around here. And had we not traded up for Sammy, it was widely reported we were looking hard at Ebron and had potential interest in a different WR which was a massive need at the top of that draft for this team.

 

PS: While Nix was technically still the GM for like 10 more days after the trade of Hughes, it was reported that Whaley was already set to be the GM and was the one who put the Hughes deal together.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

 

LMAO...this is the kid of stupid stuff I am talking about. First off, its Derek Carr, and neither Carr nor Bridgwater were available to be taken by us. One was a first late round QB (Teddy) and the other was an early 2nd round QB. We were picking 9th in the draft and moved up to #4 and took Watkins. Then both were taken before our 2nd round pick and were not available.

 

Don't sit back now that you have seen them play in the NFL and pretend they were top draft picks we passed on...they were not. We were not in position to draft them period. Our draft slot was too high for them AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT and then they went BEFORE we had a chance to draft them.

 

This is the kind of dumb comments on Whaley that drives me nuts. There are 32 teams who passed on Carr...if they knew now what they knew then Raiders would have taken Carr over Mack at #4 in a redraft because he is way more important to the Raiders than Mack. Actually I take that back, Carr would go #1 overall to Houston, so Raiders wouldn't even have a chance at him. This hindsight garbage gets real old around here. And had we not traded up for Sammy, it was widely reported we were looking hard at Ebron and had potential interest in a different WR which was a massive need at the top of that draft for this team.

Good post. Bridgewater was the first pick of the 2nd round iirc. And Whaley wanted to see EJ succeed so he got Sammy. Personally, I don't think any non qb is worth 2 1st round pick but I don't mind committing to a qb. That's where Marrone and Ehaley had a falling out.

 

But people are awesome at hindsight.

[JohnC]

 

Accountable? Are you serious? More like Whaley should be getting massive applause for the deal he did with TT. Other teams failed miserably with young QB's and their contracts who flashed potential but were still not yet fully proven. Niners, Dolphins, Texans, etc...hell I would even put Indy on that list who is over paying Luck based on his performance and size of contract. Even teams facing veteran QB decisions did terrible with how they handled the QB contract situation...teams like Chicago and the beloved Cowboys both gave atrocious contracts. Cutler proved to be not worth the money and Romo proved he could never stay healthy to earn the money nor was he clutch when it mattered most. We should be applauding Whaley on navigating a potential land mine situation with Taylor by not over committing to him and putting the team in position to retain him at a solid value to the Bills if he did warrant remaining the starter.

 

This kind of stuff about Whaley is what really blows my mind. Its one of the better things any GM has done in the NFL in regards to a QB since he has been a GM. Funny, you can also say things like Whaley's trade of worthless LB for Hughes was one of the best trades any GM has done since he has been a GM, not to mention the critical trade for McCoy for a LB with 2 bad knees. You would also be hard pressed to find a GM who has found more impact players in unlikely places through unheralded FA signings like Alexander, MG, Incognito, etc. Why Whaley gets so much crap here is beyond me...its not his fault the next Drew Brees has NOT been available during his time as GM...its not his fault our best players can't stay on the field consistently and at the same time.

I'm not a critic of Whaley. Overall, I believe he has done a good job. However, the measure of success for any GM that is the most important factor in the success of a team is finding a legitimate franchise qb. We don't have that caliber of qb on the roster unless Cardale develops beyond expectation.

 

As far as the contract that TT has or must modify to stay with the team that is not the most important and even relevant issue. The primary issue is whether he is the caliber of qb who can lead/elevate a team into being a serious team. I'm doubtful that he falls into that impactful category. I would love to be proven wrong but the flaws in his game with respect to reading defenses, going through progressions and consistently throwing accurately (in stride to receivers) may not be fixable.

 

Again, I want to emphasize that I believe Whaley has done a good job, especially considering who he is saddled with as a HC. But the bottom line for him or any GM when rating front office performance is how good is the qb taking the snaps. You can be a master of the universe for all the other areas in personnel but if you fail at finding a legitimate franchise qb you are ultimately a failure as a GM. It may not be a fair measuring stick but it is a harsh reality of the business.

 

side note: I would give up all my picks in this upcoming draft and even more down the line for Andrew Luck. The Colts have squandered the talents of Luck by the lack of support they have around him. It is a crime of stupendous ignorance!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I'm not a critic of Whaley. Overall, I believe he has done a good job. However, the measure of success for any GM that is the most important factor in the success of a team is finding a legitimate franchise qb. We don't have that caliber of qb on the roster unless Cardale develops beyond expectation.

 

As far as the contract that TT has or must modify to stay with the team that is not the most important and even relevant issue. The primary issue is whether he is the caliber of qb who can lead/elevate a team into being a serious team. I'm doubtful that he falls into that impactful category. I would love to be proven wrong but the flaws in his game with respect to reading defenses, going through progressions and consistently throwing accurately (in stride to receivers) may not be fixable.

 

Again, I want to emphasize that I believe Whaley has done a good job, especially considering who he is saddled with as a HC. But the bottom line for him or any GM when rating front office performance is how good is the qb taking the snaps. You can be a master of the universe for all the other areas in personnel but if you fail at finding a legitimate franchise qb you are ultimately a failure as a GM. It may not be a fair measuring stick but it is a harsh reality of the business.

 

side note: I would give up all my picks in this upcoming draft and even more down the line for Andrew Luck. The Colts have squandered the talents of Luck by the lack of support they have around him. It is a crime of stupendous ignorance!

 

I'd like to see Tyrod in a different offense with more pro-style sets, route trees and concepts, and a bit of a quicker pace. G-ro's playbook is just filled with formations, but its very basic in the passing game. I'm not sure it's because we had Tyrod, or because that's what he asks his QB to do.

 

But thats me...

[C.Biscuit97]

 

I'd like to see Tyrod in a different offense with more pro-style sets, route trees and concepts, and a bit of a quicker pace. G-ro's playbook is just filled with formations, but its very basic in the passing game. I'm not sure it's because we had Tyrod, or because that's what he asks his QB to do.

 

But thats me...

I think Roman did a great job and took a lot of undue heat. He probably overthought things at time. But I think he did a lot of protecting of guys like Taylor and Kaelernick. They are very flawed qbs and not guys you want throwing the ball a lot.

[Alphadawg7]

I'm not a critic of Whaley. Overall, I believe he has done a good job. However, the measure of success for any GM that is the most important factor in the success of a team is finding a legitimate franchise qb. We don't have that caliber of qb on the roster unless Cardale develops beyond expectation.

 

As far as the contract that TT has or must modify to stay with the team that is not the most important and even relevant issue. The primary issue is whether he is the caliber of qb who can lead/elevate a team into being a serious team. I'm doubtful that he falls into that impactful category. I would love to be proven wrong but the flaws in his game with respect to reading defenses, going through progressions and consistently throwing accurately (in stride to receivers) may not be fixable.

 

Again, I want to emphasize that I believe Whaley has done a good job, especially considering who he is saddled with as a HC. But the bottom line for him or any GM when rating front office performance is how good is the qb taking the snaps. You can be a master of the universe for all the other areas in personnel but if you fail at finding a legitimate franchise qb you are ultimately a failure as a GM. It may not be a fair measuring stick but it is a harsh reality of the business.

 

side note: I would give up all my picks in this upcoming draft and even more down the line for Andrew Luck. The Colts have squandered the talents of Luck by the lack of support they have around him. It is a crime of stupendous ignorance!

 

I don't disagree that finding a franchise QB in the NFL today is an absolute priority for any team. The definition of what a "franchise" guy is to a particular team is also a fluid scale because teams are built differently and therefore a quality QB to that particular team can look different than say another teams.

 

That being said, I don't fault Whaley at all for our current QB status. First, Nix handcuffed the Bills and Whaley with EJ in Nix last draft because we had no one here after cutting FitzCrapTrick...and they did a good job trading down and gaining value before selecting EJ. Whaley took over after the draft with the Bills having just invested a first round pick in EJ under Nix...I am sure Whaley had input, but it was Nix that put us in a position of need at QB in that draft.

 

in 2014, after EJ showed some promise as a rookie, the team was devoid of playmakers on the offense and Whaley began aggressively fixing that problem the next 2 seasons. Whaley added Watkins, McCoy, Clay, etc but unfortunately EJ never became the guy and in 2015 Taylor came in to compete and won the job. He then went on to earn the right to be the QB of this team in 2016, so can't fault Whaley for getting behind Taylor after he had a surprising and promising first season here. But Whaley also brilliantly recognized that while Taylor fist season was promising, it was not enough to commit ourselves to him and he structure a very fair deal to both sides that put the team in position to keep him a fair price if he continued to improve or move on if he did not. One of the best things any GM has done since he has been a GM in this league.

 

So I don't really see a single thing Whaley did wrong or should have done different during his short time as GM in regards to the QB. Like EJ, Taylor did not take a step forward in his 2nd year as a starter. It didn't help he lost Watkins for large part of the season, McCoy for all/parts of 3 games, as well as Woods, Clay, Glenn, Wood, etc for parts of the season. But he also missed too many open opportunities over the middle where for whatever reason Taylor has really struggled to see the field. Now, Whaley and the Bills are at least not tied to Taylor and have options rather than being stuck with him like many teams have been after doing terrible deals with young QB's in similar situations or Vets who didn't deserve the contract like Cutler and Romo.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 - renegotiate Tyrods contract. Bring in a veteran guy. Let them battle it out in camp. Maybe draft a qb.

 

2 - if Tyrod won't renegotiate, cut him. Trade for a qb, one that is mentioned above. I'll add Bortles as another possibility. Draft a qb.

Bortles and James? Really? Have you been living in a secure bomb shelter, cut off from society since August? Bortles has been painfully bad this season. His throwing mechanics are so jacked up...he begins his throwing motion at his ankles.

 

For those wanting Tyrod to restructure his already cap friendly contract...watch him laugh at Whaley and Overdorf, go to Denver and win a ring. Yeesus help me!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I think Roman did a great job and took a lot of undue heat. He probably overthought things at time. But I think he did a lot of protecting of guys like Taylor and Kaelernick. They are very flawed qbs and not guys you want throwing the ball a lot.

 

Greg roman's offense's do not pass - or have poor passing concepts.

 

From 2011 through 2016 his offenses were in the bottom 3 in pass attempts, near the bottom in pass yards, and mostly near the bottom in passing TDs.

 

Even with Alex smith BTW..

Edited December 20, 2016 by dneveu