Patriots Real or Not

[Mikie2times]

For years I have read the threads discuss the mass Patriot cheating empire that has propelled them into perennial SB contender. Personally, I never bought into it to the extent that I thought it was the main driver. After each occurrence of violating league rules the Patriots rebounded and then some. That would lead you to believe the infraction wasn't something that was a predominate factor in the previous years result. Game of inches? Maybe it was a large driver, it doesn't take much. Still, they rebound the following year as if nothing happened like clock work.

 

In the midst of this run the one constant has been BB and TB, a Hall of fame HC and QB and two of the very best to ever serve in those roles. That in itself is enough to accomplish legendary things.

 

The place I seem to run into a trip wire at is when I see Matt Cassel and Jimmy Garoppolo come in and look like pro bowl players. This is where the "system" conversation usually comes into play. Then my mind can't help but think how nobody, regardless if they were produced by New England or not, has ever touched reproducing this system. Not only have they failed in reproducing the system, they generally fail miserably in doing so. Then I think about the previous coaching legends. All coaching legends have coaching trees that extend miles long. The concepts they use and teach are transferred, copied, and they multiply league wide. Where is BB's tree at this point? It had a breath a long time ago, but now, virtually non existent. How can the greatest coach of this generation not have roots everywhere? None of it makes sense. That's when you start asking questions about how is it possible?

 

If I actually let my mind go to that place, the next thing I have to ask, is if you did do something that provided a substantial advantage how the heck could you keep it contained over all this time?

 

I'm really not of any opinion on it either way. BB could be the best HC of all time and his genius transcends anything coaches can even take with them. Maybe that is the answer. Seems just as plausible as a team keeping a secret as big as something like this for the better part of the decade. If you do believe it's foul play, I would be curious as to what you think it is and how it could be contained this long?

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

One constant:

 

Ernie Adams. He was implicated too in Spygate.

 

But on the level side... You think they would have engaged in the EJ hard count fiasco of the last game... I was screeming @ the TV when they wasted that TimeOut on a measy five yards!

 

Like you are gonna fool the Jets two years in a row!

 

Either run the damn play on a hard count or take the 5 yards and punt!

 

The game could have had a better chance. When they lost that TimeOut, they played for a onsides to get an extra possession.

 

I know it is confusing what I am putting down. We played high risk-high reward, and usually one gets boopkiss! We should have played win-win.

 

I don't understand... IMO, it is mandatory you go into the last 2 minutes with ALL your to's if you are especially, losing!

 

Why coaches trade these for a measily 5 yards, I will never understand!

Edited September 20, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[Fadingpain]

Talking to Brady inside his helmet telling him what to do with the ball before the snap.

 

That would be such an easy way to cheat if no one is going to police radio frequencies at games.

 

I'm still waiting for the Bills to employ some surveillance engineers to monitor the electromagnetic spectrum at a Pats game.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Talking to Brady inside his helmet telling him what to do with the ball before the snap.

 

That would be such an easy way to cheat if no one is going to police radio frequencies at games.

 

I'm still waiting for the Bills to employ some surveillance engineers to monitor the electromagnetic spectrum at a Pats game.

BINGO!

 

They will never confiscate a helmet... Especially now! Lawyers, head injuries, only one helmet...

[Mikie2times]

One constant:

 

Ernie Adams. He was implicated too in Spygate.

 

But on the level side... You think they would have engaged in the EJ hard count fiasco of the last game... I was screeming @ the TV when they wasted that TimeOut on a measy five yards!

 

Like you are gonna fool the Jets two years in a row!

 

Either run the damn play on a hard count or take the 5 yards and punt!

 

The game could have had a better chance. When they lost that TimeOut, they played for a onsides to get an extra possession.

 

I know it is confusing what I am putting down. We played high risk-high reward, and usually one gets boopkiss! We should have played win-win.

 

I don't understand... IMO, it is mandatory you go into the last 2 minutes with ALL your to's if you are especially, losing!

 

Why coaches trade these for a measily 5 yards, I will never understand!

Ernie Adams, yes. That said, if the information was this powerful as far as the edge it provides, wouldn't enough people have to be aware of it to keep the odds of it remaining a secret very low? This is what I will probably do all thread. If the first post said they don't cheat I would probably ask what reason would you say is the biggest factor in why BB can seem to defy the laws of football. I don't think it's Tom either.

Talking to Brady inside his helmet telling him what to do with the ball before the snap.

 

That would be such an easy way to cheat if no one is going to police radio frequencies at games.

 

I'm still waiting for the Bills to employ some surveillance engineers to monitor the electromagnetic spectrum at a Pats game.

So Jimmy and Cassell also know? None of my responses are meant to be argumentative. That's what makes this entertaining. None of it, from any angle, seems like it's anywhere near the realm of possibility.

Edited September 20, 2016 by KzooMike

[ExiledInIllinois]

What The League needs to do with helmets is how they watch the footballs.

 

Too expensive... Each one is custom fitted... They can never say:

 

"Hey Tommy Cheater, give me your helmet. Try this one."

 

I have been saying it for years...

 

Then there is that freaky no Shield sticker thingy everybody got their panties in a wad.

 

The stinking Pats** know it is right under Goodell's nose just like a stone through a Rachel Welch poster!

Ernie Adams, yes. That said, if the information was this powerful as far as the edge it provides, wouldn't enough people have to be aware of it to keep the odds of it remaining a secret very low? This is what I will probably do all thread. If the first post said they don't cheat I would probably ask what reason would you say is the biggest factor in why BB can seem to defy the laws of football. I don't think it's Tom either.

 

So Jimmy and Cassell also know? None of my responses are meant to be argumentative. That's what makes this entertaining. None of it, from any angle, seems like it's anywhere near the realm of possibility.

Technology and the helmet mics, etc...

 

Any coincidence as soon as The League cut the cord (mid 2000s, went wireless), all the schit happens.

 

Bills are like the Amish. Got one phone in town. Or @ very least, a Luddite...

 

:-(

Edited September 20, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[OhDozeBills]

It's Belichick and Ernie Adams that run things there and both are on a different level than the rest of the league. Yes it's a game of inches, but scheme, analytics, game plans, coaching, and probably some cheating make them who they are.

 

I've said this for years, Brady would not near the player he is if he was on any other team. It's a plug and play system and proven they can just switch guys in and out without missing a beat. Just watch, Garapolo will look like an all pro with the Pats, and if he goes to another team, he won't have near the success. We need BB to retire to have any hope, not Brady.

 

If you read the book Spygate, it's pretty interesting. Not sure I agree with everyone but there are some interesting theories.

[Pneumonic]

The cheating explanation seems to have grown legs among certain people for it's the simplest way for them to rationalize things.

[May Day 10]

It's Belichick and Ernie Adams that run things there and both are on a different level than the rest of the league. Yes it's a game of inches, but scheme, analytics, game plans, coaching, and probably some cheating make them who they are.

 

I've said this for years, Brady would not near the player he is if he was on any other team. It's a plug and play system and proven they can just switch guys in and out without missing a beat. Just watch, Garapolo will look like an all pro with the Pats, and if he goes to another team, he won't have near the success. We need BB to retire to have any hope, not Brady.

 

This sums it up pretty well, i agree. I dont think the qb is quite plug and play though. The qb needs to be big and have a decent arm... but more importantly needs to have the drive and work ethic. Jp losman would never work out there.

[MattM]

The cheating explanation seems to have grown legs among certain people for it's the simplest way for them to rationalize things.

Or because they've been cheating at least twice. Then there are things like Rodney Harrison getting caught using HGH, but only because he was dumb enough to use his own name and address--on an incarnation of that team where old vets like he, Antowain Smith, Seau, etc. seemed to go and miraculously regain a step.

 

Personally, I think it's a bit of "all the above"--they cheat wherever and however they can. You have an owner, coach and star who are sociopathic about it.

[Mikie2times]

The cheating explanation seems to have grown legs among certain people for it's the simplest way for them to rationalize things.

I think it's grown so much because they have been caught doing some things over the years and I think many people believe BB would do anything he felt he could get away with. I'm inclined to agree with this.

 

It's Belichick and Ernie Adams that run things there and both are on a different level than the rest of the league. Yes it's a game of inches, but scheme, analytics, game plans, coaching, and probably some cheating make them who they are.

 

I've said this for years, Brady would not near the player he is if he was on any other team. It's a plug and play system and proven they can just switch guys in and out without missing a beat. Just watch, Garapolo will look like an all pro with the Pats, and if he goes to another team, he won't have near the success. We need BB to retire to have any hope, not Brady.

 

If you read the book Spygate, it's pretty interesting. Not sure I agree with everyone but there are some interesting theories.

Not so black and white as I paint it, this would be the middle ground. Certainly possible, game of inches, and they just win every inch in every area and then a little spice on the top. I think many people just kept saying when Brady retires it's over. To your point, it certainly doesn't feel like the horror show ends with Tom.

Edited September 20, 2016 by KzooMike

[It's in My Blood]

They are proven cheaters. The question isn't if they cheat, but rather to what extent they do cheat

[Maury Ballstein]

Ninkovich's steroids are real.

[OhDozeBills]

This sums it up pretty well, i agree. I dont think the qb is quite plug and play though. The qb needs to be big and have a decent arm... but more importantly needs to have the drive and work ethic. Jp losman would never work out there.

Agree with you on this and they would never draft a guy like JP. They look for guys with a high football IQ and more importantly have a very strong drive/work ethic/chip on shoulder etc. They've established a winning culture which makes buying into what they're being coached probably easier than other teams. It's all about the "team" there and it's been established that you'll be gone and easily replaced if you're not willing to do what's best for the team. There are a lot of individual players that care more about their stats, and that's something NE doesn't tolerate.

[The Frankish Reich]

Agree with you on this and they would never draft a guy like JP. They look for guys with a high football IQ and more importantly have a very strong drive/work ethic/chip on shoulder etc. They've established a winning culture which makes buying into what they're being coached probably easier than other teams. It's all about the "team" there and it's been established that you'll be gone and easily replaced if you're not willing to do what's best for the team. There are a lot of individual players that care more about their stats, and that's something NE doesn't tolerate.

They drafted Ryan Mallett.

[Freddie's Dead]

Once a cheat, always a cheat. Flutie said Brady's helmet received signals up to the snap, but what was to prevent the coaches from pointing out the open receivers? I agree with a previous poster. The Bills should do a full electromagnetic spectrum sweep at any future Cheats games. If any scrambled signals are discovered, then I'll bet that's the Cheats. They should also sweep the visiting locker room at the Razor for bugs and cameras.

[OhDozeBills]

They drafted Ryan Mallett.

Nobody is perfect, but they've had a lot more hits than misses.

[The Frankish Reich]

As for the coaching tree thing: that's always kind of weird. It's not like college basketball, where he can draw the Dean Smith-Roy Williams type tree. Don Shula had ... Howard Schnellenberger? I can't recall any great coaches who learned under him. Jimmy Johnson had Dave Wannstedt and ?? Butch Davis maybe? Marv Levy had ... no one of particular note. He gets credit for Wade Phillips, but most people would chalk that up to Bum. Ted Marchibroda? Marv's wiki page notes that technically Bill Walsh (way back when) was under Levy and then Walsh himself had one of the truly great coaching trees, but it seems kind of a stretch to assign those guys (Seifert/Holmgren/Denny Green and the guys they had as assistants) to Marv. So I'm not sure the coaching tree thing really means much.

Edited September 20, 2016 by The Frankish Reich

[ExiledInIllinois]

They are proven cheaters. The question isn't if they cheat, but rather to what extent they do cheat

This.

Once a cheat, always a cheat. Flutie said Brady's helmet received signals up to the snap, but what was to prevent the coaches from pointing out the open receivers? I agree with a previous poster. The Bills should do a full electromagnetic spectrum sweep at any future Cheats games. If any scrambled signals are discovered, then I'll bet that's the Cheats. They should also sweep the visiting locker room at the Razor for bugs and cameras.

Better yet... Just go back to wires.

[Mr. WEO]

Once a cheat, always a cheat. Flutie said Brady's helmet received signals up to the snap, but what was to prevent the coaches from pointing out the open receivers? I agree with a previous poster. The Bills should do a full electromagnetic spectrum sweep at any future Cheats games. If any scrambled signals are discovered, then I'll bet that's the Cheats. They should also sweep the visiting locker room at the Razor for bugs and cameras.

 

So, in 2 seconds or less, a coach in the booth can relay a message about open receivers to Brady's helmet so he can complete a pass to this receiver? In 2 seconds?

 

And how do they do this on the road?