Depth will be a problem this year

[John from Riverside]

While I agree that we have some quality starters, I think our back-ups at TE, OG, C, LB, WR, DE. and OLB are poor. One thing to support this is that the Bills have been picking up discarded players from other teams at those positions over the last week or so, such as Biermann (already cut), Lewis (C/OG), McCray (LB), and Humber (LB). Not sure why posters here are so comfortable with our back-ups if it is clear that the coaching staff and FO are not. We will see how things play out this season.

 

One thing that continues to surprise me is that many posters seem to think we have a good group of WRs. I don't see much after Watkins. I hope I am wrong.

its not comfortable as much as as it is a league wide problem

[vincec]

Depth? I'm worried about the starters on defense. Forget depth. Take a look at the projected starting front seven against Baltimore:

 

DL: Rookie LDE (Washington), Career backup NT (Bryant) and 33 year old RDE coming off major knee injury that hasn't played in preseason (K Williams).

LB: a career backup LOLB (Alexander), two average NFL starters at ILB (the Browns), and one solid championship caliber player at ROLB (Hughes)

 

So one proven top player and a bunch of backups and question marks out of 7.

[CommonCents]

its not comfortable as much as as it is a league wide problem

So for the past two seasons all we heard was how deep this team was, now that the depth has been exposed....it's a league wide problem. Look at the active roster for week 1 and compare our front 7 on defense to the rest of the league. Then look at the back ups, then look at the rookies that will take snaps and impact other teams seasons. Lawson out, Ragland out, Listenbee out, that accounts for Buffalo's 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th round picks that will have zero contributions. Can any other team say that?

 

2011 Marcell suspended

2012 Gilmore- active

2013 1st rounder EJ is on the bench

2014-2015 is Sammy Watkins

2016 Shaq Lawson- injured

 

Can you atleast say YIKES? That is scary? If Sammy gets hurt we have one 1st rounder that we drafted playing....I know your next reply is well they drafted Shaq for the long haul, fine make that argument. The counter argument is that you drafted damage goods and even after you fix the damage this does not make him immune to new injuries. Someone falls on Shaq's leg the wrong way and he blows out a knee!? Is he injury prone now? No not really, he only got hurt once in the past 3 or so years but the games lost due to injury are on the front office not Shaq.

[John from Riverside]

So for the past two seasons all we heard was how deep this team was, now that the depth has been exposed....it's a league wide problem. Look at the active roster for week 1 and compare our front 7 on defense to the rest of the league. Then look at the back ups, then look at the rookies that will take snaps and impact other teams seasons. Lawson out, Ragland out, Listenbee out, that accounts for Buffalo's 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th round picks that will have zero contributions. Can any other team say that?

 

2011 Marcell suspended

2012 Gilmore- active

2013 1st rounder EJ is on the bench

2014-2015 is Sammy Watkins

2016 Shaq Lawson- injured

 

Can you atleast say YIKES? That is scary? If Sammy gets hurt we have one 1st rounder that we drafted playing....I know your next reply is well they drafted Shaq for the long haul, fine make that argument. The counter argument is that you drafted damage goods and even after you fix the damage this does not make him immune to new injuries. Someone falls on Shaq's leg the wrong way and he blows out a knee!? Is he injury prone now? No not really, he only got hurt once in the past 3 or so years but the games lost due to injury are on the front office not Shaq.

can we wait till they actually play a game?

[CommonCents]

can we wait till they actually play a game?

If we can declare players gems before they suit up in a game that matters surely we can take an exhaustive look at the roster and the decisions made that got us there. Scouring street FA's was nice when the intent was to bolster the depth of the team, now they are doing it to find instant impact players out of necessity due to injuries and mismanagement of the cap.

 

Rex is retooling last years defense with much less talented players, hopefully he can pull it off. We lost Bradham, Brooks, Leo, Mario and others...who are we replacing them with? UDFA's and street FA's, if he goes 8-8 he deserves coach of the year.

[John from Riverside]

If we can declare players gems before they suit up in a game that matters surely we can take an exhaustive look at the roster and the decisions made that got us there. Scouring street FA's was nice when the intent was to bolster the depth of the team, now they are doing it to find instant impact players out of necessity due to injuries and mismanagement of the cap.

 

Rex is retooling last years defense with much less talented players, hopefully he can pull it off. We lost Bradham, Brooks, Leo, Mario and others...who are we replacing them with? UDFA's and street FA's, if he goes 8-8 he deserves coach of the year.

how do we know they are less talented?

[jahnyc]

I am worried about the starters on defense as well. Kind of an odd mix. Some really good, blue chip players, such as Gilmore, Darby, Dareus and Hughes and then some guys who should not be in a starting lineup. Overall, Rex has less talent this year on defense and more pressure. His abilities as a defensive coach will be tested this year.

[John from Riverside]

I am worried about the starters on defense as well. Kind of an odd mix. Some really good, blue chip players, such as Gilmore, Darby, Dareus and Hughes and then some guys who should not be in a starting lineup. Overall, Rex has less talent this year on defense and more pressure. His abilities as a defensive coach will be tested this year.

who should not be in the starting lineup?

[hondo in seattle]

So for the past two seasons all we heard was how deep this team was, now that the depth has been exposed....it's a league wide problem. Look at the active roster for week 1 and compare our front 7 on defense to the rest of the league. Then look at the back ups, then look at the rookies that will take snaps and impact other teams seasons. Lawson out, Ragland out, Listenbee out, that accounts for Buffalo's 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th round picks that will have zero contributions. Can any other team say that?

 

2011 Marcell suspended

2012 Gilmore- active

2013 1st rounder EJ is on the bench

2014-2015 is Sammy Watkins

2016 Shaq Lawson- injured

 

Can you atleast say YIKES? That is scary? If Sammy gets hurt we have one 1st rounder that we drafted playing....I know your next reply is well they drafted Shaq for the long haul, fine make that argument. The counter argument is that you drafted damage goods and even after you fix the damage this does not make him immune to new injuries. Someone falls on Shaq's leg the wrong way and he blows out a knee!? Is he injury prone now? No not really, he only got hurt once in the past 3 or so years but the games lost due to injury are on the front office not Shaq.

 

I personally believe the premise is faulty. I don't think "depth has been exposed."

 

The injuries to the rookies are a shame. Nonetheless, many of us don't think our depth is worse than it's traditionally been. In fact, it may be better this season. DW and his team have done a nice job identifying and acquiring veteran backups.

 

Like any other year, let's hope we don't get injuries. If we do get injuries, let's hope they're at a position of strength, not a position of weakness.

 

I worry about depth every year but I may be worrying a little less this year.

[GunnerBill]

Every team has some depth issues - the salary cap does force that as does the inflation in top players' salaries. It squeezes the middle guys (those backup and rotation players in their late 20s and early 30s) whose production you can replace (or almost replace) at a much smaller cost. We saw that yesterday here in Buffalo with the surprise cuts of Felton and Manny Lawson. That is the league now.

 

Indeed the C we have just picked up from Seattle is another good example. Even though he had lost the starting job because they decided to slide Britt over from guard (in order to shoehorn their 1st round draft pick into the lineup at guard) he was still their 2nd best center and would have been a reliable, solid depth player for them. The question is though, for a team that has a lot of money tied up in its elite players (as Seattle does and as we are getting closer to here in Buffalo), is that reliability worth $1.6m? The guy who moved up the depth chart as a result is a 6th round rookie. It is a significant money saving and teams consider it worth sacrificing a little bit of depth for. And Seattle made that decision despite having some o-line issues in both 2014 and 2015. So even in a weak spot for them that was their calculation.

 

That is not to say, however, that I am not worried about the Bills depth in certain areas. I am concerned about WR. I think Woods is a borderline #2 in the first place and to me Goodwin, Salas and Powell are all #4 / #5 type receivers. I am concerned at TE (I've always been a bit of a Chris Gragg fanboy and I think his loss hurts us more than most will admit) Dray and O'Leary are borderline NFL talents. The linebacker depth is a concern and the ability of those linebackers to know the plays equally worries me. We were told one of the big improvements in that area this year would come from communication. I think Preston Brown is a fine player who was totally confused by the scheme last year despite being here throughout camp. The guys we have picked up late (and I like the McCray pick up in particular) are going to have to be up to speed quickly.

 

I'm not as worried as some on the defensive line. I think Corbin Bryant would start for teams in the league he is a legit player and I think Worthy and Douzable are reliable backups who have had good camps. We have good depth in the secondary. I like our corners and have seen progress from our back up safeties that gives me cause for optimism. I'm also less concerned than some about the o-line. The guys you watched getting blown up on Thursday are gone with the exception of Groy. Would it be nice to add another backup guard? Yes, it would because I see Lewis as a specialist center more than a swing guy.

 

As for depth around the league.... I am a bit of a geek so I do tend to know who the backups of other teams are.... my stock answer to the deepest roster all round the last couple of years has been the Cincinnati Bengals (one of the reasons I am so harsh on Dalton is he has had it all there for him). They had some losses though this offseason and then their first round draft pick got injured (sound familiar?) and there are more question marks there than there have been in a long time (WR, TE, secondary depth). The Patriots are pretty deep but have some real O-line questions and will star the season without their QB and their #1 RB.... (outside McCourty still think they have a weakness at safety too - the Bills really should use Clay down the seam more in those matches. The Cardinals are very deep on offense and whilst their defensive starting line up is strong they are very thin behind that (in all 3 units).

Edited September 3, 2016 by GunnerBill

[vincec]

Problem with offense = depth. TE, OL, QB, WR. Everywhere but RB really.

Problem with defense = starters.

[NoSaint]

its not comfortable as much as as it is a league wide problem

Would you consider our depth to be better worse or equal to the league average?

 

If ranking 23-53 on our roster where would you put them?

 

I'm not sure myself but I think when comparing to last year we probably took a small step back unless a few guys really step up. And that isn't the end of the world.

[GunnerBill]

Would you consider our depth to be better worse or equal to the league average?

 

If ranking 23-53 on our roster where would you put them?

 

I'm not sure myself but I think when comparing to last year we probably took a small step back unless a few guys really step up. And that isn't the end of the world.

 

For my part I think we probably have taken a small step back. Certainly on offense our receiver depth and tight end depth are worse our line depth is about a wash but might be slightly better if we believe that Kujo could be a serviceable backup. On defense our linebacker depth was bad last year as well so that is about a wash. Slightly better in secondary and slightly worse up front.

 

In terms of where I'd rank us league wide.... around about halfway somewhere between 14-20 feels about right.

[NoSaint]

 

For my part I think we probably have taken a small step back. Certainly on offense our receiver depth and tight end depth are worse our line depth is about a wash but might be slightly better if we believe that Kujo could be a serviceable backup. On defense our linebacker depth was bad last year as well so that is about a wash. Slightly better in secondary and slightly worse up front.

 

In terms of where I'd rank us league wide.... around about halfway somewhere between 14-20 feels about right.

More or less, yea. I could nitpick if I tried but nothing crazy.

 

I just don't get how an evaluation like that would upset anyone and know a few here will hate it. Not everything was steps forward. We can acknowledge that we lost some of those middle of the roster guys and didn't add much in FA (kept our own which is important) and because of injury the draft impact will be limited. Some is our choice, some is dumb luck...

 

Hogan replaced by salas

Harvin replaced by Powell (harvin ultimately a bust for us but Powell an easy type of player to pick up in October even if we had that type of bust)

 

Mckelvin replaced by Seymour

Gragg needing to be replaced

Lawson/Mario replaced by Lorenzo/McCray

Karlos having to be replaced by bush

 

We will see about easleys special teams replacement

Edited September 3, 2016 by NoSaint

[hondo in seattle]

Every team has some depth issues - the salary cap does force that as does the inflation in top players' salaries. It squeezes the middle guys (those backup and rotation players in their late 20s and early 30s) whose production you can replace (or almost replace) at a much smaller cost. We saw that yesterday here in Buffalo with the surprise cuts of Felton and Manny Lawson. That is the league now.

 

Indeed the C we have just picked up from Seattle is another good example. Even though he had lost the starting job because they decided to slide Britt over from guard (in order to shoehorn their 1st round draft pick into the lineup at guard) he was still their 2nd best center and would have been a reliable, solid depth player for them. The question is though, for a team that has a lot of money tied up in its elite players (as Seattle does and as we are getting closer to here in Buffalo), is that reliability worth $1.6m? The guy who moved up the depth chart as a result is a 6th round rookie. It is a significant money saving and teams consider it worth sacrificing a little bit of depth for. And Seattle made that decision despite having some o-line issues in both 2014 and 2015. So even in a weak spot for them that was their calculation.

 

That is not to say, however, that I am not worried about the Bills depth in certain areas. I am concerned about WR. I think Woods is a borderline #2 in the first place and to me Goodwin, Salas and Powell are all #4 / #5 type receivers. I am concerned at TE (I've always been a bit of a Chris Gragg fanboy and I think his loss hurts us more than most will admit) Dray and O'Leary are borderline NFL talents. The linebacker depth is a concern and the ability of those linebackers to know the plays equally worries me. We were told one of the big improvements in that area this year would come from communication. I think Preston Brown is a fine player who was totally confused by the scheme last year despite being here throughout camp. The guys we have picked up late (and I like the McCray pick up in particular) are going to have to be up to speed quickly.

 

I'm not as worried as some on the defensive line. I think Corbin Bryant would start for teams in the league he is a legit player and I think Worthy and Douzable are reliable backups who have had good camps. We have good depth in the secondary. I like our corners and have seen progress from our back up safeties that gives me cause for optimism. I'm also less concerned than some about the o-line. The guys you watched getting blown up on Thursday are gone with the exception of Groy. Would it be nice to add another backup guard? Yes, it would because I see Lewis as a specialist center more than a swing guy.

 

As for depth around the league.... I am a bit of a geek so I do tend to know who the backups of other teams are.... my stock answer to the deepest roster all round the last couple of years has been the Cincinnati Bengals (one of the reasons I am so harsh on Dalton is he has had it all there for him). They had some losses though this offseason and then their first round draft pick got injured (sound familiar?) and there are more question marks there than there have been in a long time (WR, TE, secondary depth). The Patriots are pretty deep but have some real O-line questions and will star the season without their QB and their #1 RB.... (outside McCourty still think they have a weakness at safety too - the Bills really should use Clay down the seam more in those matches. The Cardinals are very deep on offense and whilst their defensive starting line up is strong they are very thin behind that (in all 3 units).

 

Nice overview.

Problem with offense = depth. TE, OL, QB, WR. Everywhere but RB really.

Problem with defense = starters.

 

I disagree with this.

 

I think our OL depth is okay.

 

I think EJ is at least an average backup.

 

I think our WR depth is fine, especially when you consider Roman is typically a run-first guy which makes our depth at RB important.

[flutie5]

I believe we will be just fine with our backups this year.

[NorthBuffaloKid]

Enough of the chit chat.

 

Let's line them up and play some football!

[bacarri and coke]

It seems like people that constantly say that we have a lack of depth don't follow any team except the Bills.If you only follow the Bills you have nothing to compare it to and feel we lack depth,that and in the back of your mind you know our draft class is injured.Every team has sustained injuries and because of the cap every team lacks proven depth at one position or another.As far as the people that hate Wailey it's the same narrow minded short sighted thinking all you people see is the missed players in the draft... every team misses some no one's perfect.I like what Wailey is doing and like our roster and most of all love the fact that we actually sign our draft hits unlike previous regimes where we draft a guy he turns out to be a stud and we trade him.Do you guys not remember the 2000's?...how unexciting this team was to watch and how frustrating the few drafted players we hit on got traded away for a hand full of beaded necklaces!?

Edited September 3, 2016 by bacarri and coke

[NoSaint]

It seems like people that constantly say that we have a lack of depth don't follow any team except the Bills.If you only follow the Bills you have nothing to compare it to and feel we lack depth,that and in the back of your mind you know our draft class is injured.Every team has sustained injuries and because of the cap every team lacks proven depth at one position or another.As far as the people that hate Wailea it's the same thing all the see is the missed players in the draft and every team misses some.I like what Wailea is doing and like our roster and most of all love the fact that we actually sign our draft hits unlike previous regimes where we draft a guy he turns out to be a stud and we trade him.Do you guys not remember the 2000's?...how unexciting this team was to watch and how frustrating the few drafted players we hit on got traded away for a hand full of beaded necklaces!?

I watch several teams (season ticket holder for a different team even) and generally do like Whaley.... But think we are less of a complete 53 than I did at the same time last year. I also think much better of the qb situation. There's both growth and a few steps back in places too. That's kind of how it happens. I don't think our bottom 30 is wholly lacking talent, just that we aren't as stout in that group as we've recently been.

 

By nature of paying TT, MD, CC, Hughes, McCoy, and likely Gilmore soon.... We totally expected some of that middle of the roster to dry up unless we got really lucky drafting. We've been ok, not great, there with the last 4-5 1sts yielding a very good WR, very good but suspended DT, injured OLB and backup qb.... Day two of the draft has been ok but I wouldn't argue great... And we unfortunately lost a day three home run in karlos. That paired with a roster that's come mature with guys getting paid and we are a little shaky in some spots on the bench. Our "cheap talent" (which every team relies on) is a bit thinner than we have seen at times. Not bad though.

Edited September 3, 2016 by NoSaint

[bacarri and coke]

I watch several teams (season ticket holder for a different team even) and generally do like Whaley.... But think we are less of a complete 53 than I did at the same time last year. I also think much better of the qb situation. There's both growth and a few steps back in places too. That's kind of how it happens. I don't think our bottom 30 is wholly lacking talent, just that we aren't as stout in that group as we've recently been.

I can agree with this for sure.We are not as deep as last year in some positions but others more so for instance DL(interior ),DB,and even OL I feel better about