TH3 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 So what happens when you draw a red line, that isn't really a red line? You invite bad people to test where that red line really is. So what is it worth to you to enact military action in the middle east? Seeing as military actions up to Post 9-11 were paid for both by taxes and a draft (except for Iraq 1) - are you ready to be behind a new payroll tax - or GST to pay for the action - and as well - are you willing to send your kid to the ME? Are you on the phone to your elected representatives to get on the floors of congress, enact a new authorization for military action - or better yet - declare war...and then get behind paying out of your pocket for it...? I guess not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 So what is it worth to you to enact military action in the middle east? Seeing as military actions up to Post 9-11 were paid for both by taxes and a draft (except for Iraq 1) - are you ready to be behind a new payroll tax - or GST to pay for the action - and as well - are you willing to send your kid to the ME? Are you on the phone to your elected representatives to get on the floors of congress, enact a new authorization for military action - or better yet - declare war...and then get behind paying out of your pocket for it...? I guess not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 So what is it worth to you to enact military action in the middle east? Seeing as military actions up to Post 9-11 were paid for both by taxes and a draft (except for Iraq 1) - are you ready to be behind a new payroll tax - or GST to pay for the action - and as well - are you willing to send your kid to the ME? Are you on the phone to your elected representatives to get on the floors of congress, enact a new authorization for military action - or better yet - declare war...and then get behind paying out of your pocket for it...? I guess not.... We don't pay for half a trillion dollars a year in spending now, much of it wasteful so why would we have to pay for more military spending? Just borrow the money, right? Personally I think we adopt our post 9/11 mindset minus the nation building. To me that means any terror group that threatens us at home or abroad gets wacked and we bring all immigration down to a trickle, a very selective trickle. We're losing lives either way. Either as victims or as soldiers fighting terrorism. Any strategy that uses intelligence or technology or diplomacy to reduce terrorism should be used to the best extent possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 So what is it worth to you to enact military action in the middle east? Seeing as military actions up to Post 9-11 were paid for both by taxes and a draft (except for Iraq 1) - are you ready to be behind a new payroll tax - or GST to pay for the action - and as well - are you willing to send your kid to the ME? Are you on the phone to your elected representatives to get on the floors of congress, enact a new authorization for military action - or better yet - declare war...and then get behind paying out of your pocket for it...? I guess not.... Is this your Reagan Republicanism coming back or incoherent chronology? You may need to remind me again how the end of the draft in the '70s, the first Iraq War in 1991 and 9/11/2001 are interrelated. Maybe you can also educate me on how tax rates have gone up by over 42% in the last decade, yet you're still complaining that there isn't enough tax revenue for the budget bloat. And then you can explain how a leading from behind policy in the last eight years has made the world safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 So what is it worth to you to enact military action in the middle east? Seeing as military actions up to Post 9-11 were paid for both by taxes and a draft (except for Iraq 1) - are you ready to be behind a new payroll tax - or GST to pay for the action - and as well - are you willing to send your kid to the ME? Are you on the phone to your elected representatives to get on the floors of congress, enact a new authorization for military action - or better yet - declare war...and then get behind paying out of your pocket for it...? I guess not.... Um, I believe his point was that it's a bad idea to assume a defiant posture (ie red line in the sand) if everyone knows that you're not going to back it up. In other words, Obama should have just kept his mouth shut. Not everyone on the American right is a jingoist, for your information. You need to let go of those antiquated stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Um, I believe his point was that it's a bad idea to assume a defiant posture (ie red line in the sand) if everyone knows that you're not going to back it up. In other words, Obama should have just kept his mouth shut. Not everyone on the American right is a jingoist, for your information. You need to let go of those antiquated stereotypes. Baskin let go of his stereotypes ? Oh wait.....................you were serious ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 A Congressman Campaigns to “Stop the Madness” of U.S. Support for Saudi Bombing in Yemen “I taught the law of war when I was on active duty,” he told The Intercept. “You can’t kill children, newlyweds, doctors and patients — those are exempt targets under the law of war, and the coalition has been repeatedly striking civilians,” he said. “So it is very disturbing to me. It is even worse that the U.S. is aiding this coalition.” But he and a very few other lawmakers who have tried to take bipartisan action to stop U.S. support for the campaign are a lonely bunch. “Many in Congress have been hesitant to criticize the Saudis’ operational conduct in Yemen,” Lieu said. He didn’t say more about that. The matter has gotten ever more urgent since August 7, when the Saudi-led coalition relaunched an aggressive campaign of attacks after Houthi rebels in Yemen rejected a one-sided peace deal. More than 60 Yemeni civilians have been killed in at least five attacks on civilian areas since the new bombing campaign began. On August 13, the coalition bombed a school in Haydan, Yemen, killing at least 10 children and injuring 28 more. Lieu released a statement two days later, harshly condemning the attack. “The indiscriminate civilian killings by Saudi Arabia look like war crimes to me. In this case, children as young as 8 were killed by Saudi Arabian air strikes,” he wrote. “By assisting Saudi Arabia, the United States is aiding and abetting what appears to be war crimes in Yemen,” Lieu added. “The administration must stop enabling this madness now.” Then, mere minutes after his office sent out the statement about the August 13 attack, another tragedy started making headlines: The coalition had justbombed a hospital operated by the international medical humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders (also known as Médecins Sans Frontières, or MSF), killing 19. That was the fourth MSF medical facility that the Saudi-led coalition — which has received weapons, intelligence and support from the U.S. and U.K. — has bombed in the past year in Yemen. By a conservative estimate, more than 6,500 Yemenis have been killed since the war began in March 2015. The violence has pushed Yemen – which was already the poorest country in the Middle East, suffering from widespread hunger and destitution — into what the U.N. has called for well over a year now a “humanitarian catastrophe.” Lieu has been repeatedly raising concerns about Yemen since last fall. Oh, give me a !@#$ing break. We - the United States - have been doing this for decades. That's what happens when you drop bombs. Is he going to demand Colin Powell and George H. W. Bush be tried for the Al Firdos bunker, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Baskin let go of his stereotypes ? Oh wait.....................you were serious ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Oh, give me a !@#$ing break. We - the United States - have been doing this for decades. That's what happens when you drop bombs. Is he going to demand Colin Powell and George H. W. Bush be tried for the Al Firdos bunker, too? What's different about Yemen is it's a border skirmish that poses little to no threat to the Saudi's security or the region's. The Al Firdos bombing was during a conflict that, because Iraq invaded another country and a resource rich ally, needed to be waged. Yemen has no resources. The Houthis didn't invade another country, they're fighting a revolution within their homeland. $1.5b in weapons sold just this past month, all given to the Saudis to bomb an impoverished neighbor who poses no direct threat to their sovereignty or stability in the ME. We have no business helping the Saudis in this conflict if this is how they're going to wage it -- let alone supplying them the arms to do so while wailing to the press about both sides needing to stop hostilities for the sake of civilians. It's that kind of hollow double speak that's given the US a black eye on the world stage the past 16 years. We make red lines that don't mean anything, talk about supporting democracy while working to actively undermine it in regions where we don't like the democratic outcome. The US is all talk... but give us enough money and we'll give you enough bombs to kill as many civilians as you like and just look the other way. That's the US policy under 44 and soon to be 45. Edited August 23, 2016 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 No matter where you come out on US arms sales to foreign regimes, to think that Houthies have zero effect on Saudi Arabia or the region is very naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 No matter where you come out on US arms sales to foreign regimes, to think that Houthies have zero effect on Saudi Arabia or the region is very naive. I think it's about as naive as believing the Saudis are good allies who deserve our continued billions in arms and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I think it's about as naive as believing the Saudis are good allies who deserve our continued billions in arms and support. That wasn't the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 That wasn't the question. Say it with me: self determination -- that's what's needed. Let's stop teaming up with monsters to fight monsters who may or may not be worse than the ones we're allied with. The Saudis are not allies of the US, helping them bomb and kill civilians of an impoverished, resource-less country just because we don't like Iran is the height of hegemonic stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Say it with me: self determination -- that's what's needed. Let's stop teaming up with monsters to fight monsters who may or may not be worse than the ones we're allied with. The Saudis are not allies of the US, helping them bomb and kill civilians of an impoverished, resource-less country just because we don't like Iran is the height of hegemonic stupidity. Then you should have said this from the outset. You have a tremendous knack for undermining your points with contradictory commentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Then you should have said this from the outset. You have a tremendous knack for undermining your points with contradictory commentary And you have a tremendous knack for missing my point completely, inventing your own, and inserting it in as my own and then wondering why it is you don't understand my points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 And you have a tremendous knack for missing my point completely, inventing your own, and inserting it in as my own and then wondering why it is you don't understand my points. Did you or did you not say that Houthies present no danger to Saudi Arabia or the region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Say it with me: self determination -- that's what's needed. Let's stop teaming up with monsters to fight monsters who may or may not be worse than the ones we're allied with. The Saudis are not allies of the US, helping them bomb and kill civilians of an impoverished, resource-less country just because we don't like Iran is the height of hegemonic stupidity. Tell that to the Clinton Foundation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Did you or did you not say that Houthies present no danger to Saudi Arabia or the region? What kind of threat do you think a ragtag group of rebels fighting for their own country (which has zero resources) poses to any of the ME countries they're bordering? Outside of terror attacks, none. My point, which you're once again trying to misconstrue, is this is a border skirmish that has nothing to do with us. The Saudis don't need our help killing poor people they don't like, they do that well enough on their own. Tell that to the Clinton Foundation You ain't lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 What kind of threat do you think a ragtag group of rebels fighting for their own country (which has zero resources) poses to any of the ME countries they're bordering? Where are Houthies getting their support from? What's the ultimate goal of their terror campaign against Saudi interests? Does Yemen sit on a very strategically placed piece of land? Have their patrons ever threatened to cut off major shipping channels? But other than that, they're just a bunch of ragtag rebels who pose absolutely no threat to the region, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 BREAKING: Four Iranian boats harass U.S. destroyer in the Strait of Hormuz http://washex.am/2bhkgqY Quick Mr. President.................get out the checkbook again. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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