TakeYouToTasker Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: I'm diametrically opposed to this so I doubt we'd be able to find common ground there. How can you be diametrically opposed to the reality that human morality has changed throughout the course of human history? The entire concept of morality has been fluid throughout human‘s social development and levels of interaction over the last six million years or so. The introduction of modern religions designate a clear shift in moral attitudes, the Stoics and later the Enlightenment another, as the modern concepts of human freedom as a virtue didn‘t even exist until that point. And the reason they didn’t exist? Until that point life was too hard, and too brutal, for individuals to spend much, if any, time engaged in developing moral philosophy. Until Locke presented his argument, it was generally presumed that the proper moral order was that everyone existed under the absolute rule of a monarch who derived his power directly from the Divine. Believing that none of this is true is an outright rejection of the realities of human history. Edited June 21, 2020 by TakeYouToTasker 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 When the mob tears down a statue it is an act of anarchy. If a city council or legislature determines that a statue be torn down it is not an act of anarchy. Communism is born out of anarchy. Many of the people who are presently committing anarchism have freely admitted that they are Marxist. It's no great leap to figure out what's going on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 I cannot believe that a simple cartoon needs to be explained. FIRST, the fact that it is Columbus really doesn’t enter into it, other than the fact that it was the last one done two days ago all your posts about him are superfluous squirrels The liberal mob tearing down statue after statue, without any public support, because they disagree with them is how Socialism operates. Think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, Warcodered said: I'd say it's rather obvious I don't consider it to be a fact.? Being wrong about a fact doesn't suddenly make it an opinion. If morality wasn't an ever changing construct in history you could prove it. But you cannot. While I can prove, very easily, that it is. You're wrong. All the way. Just now, Warcodered said: and I'd say it has always been wrong even when society deemed it to be acceptable. You can say this because you were born into a world where slavery was deemed a moral evil. That took hundreds of years to change, and one of the bloodiest wars in our nation's history. Which, of course, only proves my point. 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: No if I'd been born in raised in those times I'd be pretty likely to believe in all those things like average person of those times, it wouldn't make me right though. But it wouldn't make you evil, or unworthy of your place in history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: CTE is real, kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: When the mob tears down a statue it is an act of anarchy. If a city council or legislature determines that a statue be torn down it is not an act of anarchy. Communism is born out of anarchy. Many of the people who are presently committing anarchism have freely admitted that they are Marxist. It's no great leap to figure out what's going on. It’s not anarchy, it’s a communist revolution. Anarchy is building a shed without a permit, or drinking raw milk sold to you by a neighbor in a non-State sanctioned currency without paying taxes, or hunting or fishing without a license. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: How can you be diametrically opposed to the reality that human morality has changed throughout the course of human history? The entire concept of morality has been fluid throughout human‘s social development and levels of interaction over the last six million years or so. The introduction of modern religions designate a clear shift in moral attitudes, the Stoics and later the Enlightenment another, as the modern concepts of human freedom as a virtue didn‘t even exist until that point. And the reason they didn’t exist? Until that point life was too hard, and too brutal, for individuals to spend much, if any, time engaged in developing moral philosophy. Until Locke presented his argument, it was generally presumed that the proper moral order was that everyone existed under the absolute rule of a monarch who derived his power directly from the Divine. Believing that none of this is true is an outright rejection of the realities of human history. 26 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Being wrong about a fact doesn't suddenly make it an opinion. If morality wasn't an ever changing construct in history you could prove it. But you cannot. While I can prove, very easily, that it is. You're wrong. All the way. You can say this because you were born into a world where slavery was deemed a moral evil. That took hundreds of years to change, and one of the bloodiest wars in our nation's history. Which, of course, only proves my point. But it wouldn't make you evil, or unworthy of your place in history. I'd say what I'm arguing is the existence and separation of intrinsic morality from a historic cultural morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123719bwiqrb Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Rob's House said: cucking funts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I'd say what I'm arguing is the existence and separation of intrinsic morality from a historic cultural morality. If that’s true, then show me how this “intrinsic morality” has existed unchanged throughout time. Give me philosophers, or literature, or any minds that cross the chasm of history all citing the same intrinsic morality. ... You can’t do it, because what you’re arguing doesn’t exist. You’re taking our modern morality and saying it’s the peak, and will never be changed, evolve, or be re-examined by future generations of philosophers and humans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said: cucking funts He's trolling the left. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I'd say what I'm arguing is the existence and separation of intrinsic morality from a historic cultural morality. I think you might be trying to assert an objective moral law --- you could assert this as a Kantian or follow the natural law tradition discoverable in Aquinas among others. I have a fair amount of sympathy for the natural law thesis, though there's no doubt that even if one grants it exists, it is not immediately self-evident and requires certain prerequisite beliefs as a foundation for it's rationality. (Granted, there are no ethics without at least an implicit metaphysics and first principles are not demonstrable, though one can intuit them.) C. S. Lewis wrote a book decades ago, The Abolition of Man, that argued for a perduring sense of morality transcendent of any particular culture. I think one can become so deracinated and cut off from communal relations that foundational experiences necessary to recognize an objective moral law are lacking. And, of course, in a meritricious, decadent society, sophists gain control of the modes of education and youth begin ignorant and end in entrenched ideology that blinds them to any substantial understanding of reality. Truth as transcendent purchase on an objectivity that cannot simply be written out of existence by human fiat is pretty much the opposite of cancel "culture." 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: Right so go off the cartoon the implication is that the pulling down of Columbus' statue leads to Communism could you tell me how? So you're of the opinion that morality is subjective? Guess what. Some of the things you are doing now will be considered abhorrent 150 years from today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I'd say what I'm arguing is the existence and separation of intrinsic morality from a historic cultural morality. How can this be if human social development disagrees with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: If that’s true, then show me how this “intrinsic morality” has existed unchanged throughout time. Give me philosophers, or literature, or any minds that cross the chasm of history all citing the same intrinsic morality. ... You can’t do it, because what you’re arguing doesn’t exist. You’re taking our modern morality and saying it’s the peak, and will never be changed, evolve, or be re-examined by future generations of philosophers and humans. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-intrinsic-extrinsic/ 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Guess what. Some of the things you are doing now will be considered abhorrent 150 years from today. That's inevitably true all I can do is the best I can with how I see the world now doesn't mean people in future with a hopefully better understanding of the world shouldn't judge my mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: That's inevitably true all I can do is the best I can with how I see the world now doesn't mean people in future with a hopefully better understanding of the world shouldn't judge my mistakes. Couldn't the same be said of people from previous generations? Don't you think they were doing their best with what they had? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Another Confederate Statue to be taken down hold up.... what? 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, Warcodered said: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-intrinsic-extrinsic/ You realize this works against your point. 8 minutes ago, Magox said: Another Confederate Statue to be taken down hold up.... what? Wonder what they’ll do to Rushmore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: It’s not anarchy, it’s a communist revolution. Anarchy is building a shed without a permit, or drinking raw milk sold to you by a neighbor in a non-State sanctioned currency without paying taxes, or hunting or fishing without a license. anarchy [ˈanərkē] NOUN a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" synonyms: lawlessness · absence of government · nihilism · mobocracy · revolution · insurrection · riot · rebellion · mutiny · disorder · disorganization · misrule · chaos · tumult · turmoil · mayhem · pandemonium absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ It takes anarchy to tear down the existing norms in order to set up for a communist revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You realize this works against your point. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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