2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Ground n pound running games and defense got both Denver and Carolina in the Superbowl this year and Seattle the last two years. The demise of the ground game and defense has been greatly exaggerated. Where are the fancy dancey passing games????? Agreed, I think it can still work. It takes a number of things to be just right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 But bills were at the bottom in 2014 too... It's an interesting number but if one digs into, in isolation it means nothing. Good teams have bad showings, bad teams have good showings in this rank and on average the last decade of Super Bowl winners at least, are in the bottom half more than not. You can look at the numbers, or you can think back to games that were completely derailed by the long stretches of back to back to back to back three and outs. If you don't remember things that way, fine. I do. This was all to suggest that the offense wasn't as good as people like to claim. There are stats that support both sides of the argument, but when the offense had to go and WIN games, it could not. And far too often its inability to get anything going ground the entire chances of victory to a nub. That's how I remember many games. We did not have the defense to overcome the offense's failures. Nobody is arguing this. It's like 2012 in reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Agreed, I think it can still work. It takes a number of things to be just right though. One could argue that if Seattle had fed it to Beastmode, you'd have to go back to 2010 to find a dominant Super Bowl winning QB. The notion of dime-a-dozen RB's and that QB's are the only route to victory is just not that true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 One could argue that if Seattle had fed it to Beastmode, you'd have to go back to 2010 to find a dominant Super Bowl winning QB. The notion of dime-a-dozen RB's and that QB's are the only route to victory is just not that true. Denver proved it beyond doubt, they won it with a QB who threw way more INTs than touchdowns. But they had not only the best defense in terms of yards and points, but also the best in pass rush and turnovers. Not an easy thing to do by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Denver proved it beyond doubt, they won it with a QB who threw way more INTs than touchdowns. But they had not only the best defense in terms of yards and points, but also the best in pass rush and turnovers. Not an easy thing to do by any stretch. Which is why pointing to Denver as the team with the 30th worst three and out percentage (still better than ours), hardly invalidates the point that the offense played a key role in costing the Bills win in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Which is why pointing to Denver as the team with the 30th worst three and out percentage (still better than ours), hardly invalidates the point that the offense played a key role in costing the Bills win in 2015. Yeah I agree with this. We didn't lose to the Giants for example because of the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Is your left arm numb by an chance? Do your surroundings smell like toast? So ya want me to buy in- pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Nobody is disputing anything you're saying. What would you like to discuss with me? What's the sound of one hand clapping? Weo using stats out of context to shoot down a point? Yes Weo does that. For example, when he said it was ridiculous to think Manning and Broncos can win the SB. Edit: and the supported it with out of context stats Edited February 16, 2016 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Yeah I agree with this. We didn't lose to the Giants for example because of the defense. god no. that was actually one best games for the defense. which is why when it was included as evidence of rex's "ineptness" earlier in this thread i went in full on troll mode to return the favor. Yes Weo does that. For example, when he said it was ridiculous to think Manning and Broncos can win the SB. to be fair, manning couldn't win a super bowl, can't win a super bowl and didn't win a super bowl. in sb 50, denver scored 18 of their 24 points on "drives" that accumulated a total of 3 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 god no. that was actually one best games for the defense. which is why when it was included as evidence of rex's "ineptness" earlier in this thread i went in full on troll mode to return the favor. to be fair, manning couldn't win a super bowl, can't win a super bowl and didn't win a super bowl. in sb 50, denver scored 18 of their 24 points on "drives" that accumulated a total of 3 yards It was a good showing for the D. The defense kept us in the game while the offense went three and out 6 times in the first half alone! I've seen folks point to the D giving up a score as soon as we cut it to 4 points or whatever it was, but that touchdown was the only points we surrendered the whole second half. We lost that day because the offense turned it over twice, wasted the 1st half, scored their first touchdown with less than 10 minutes left in the game and served up only 10 points total. I think fans who are focusing solely on improving the defense are missing part of the story, namely the offense's dismal 3 & out percentage and general 3rd down struggles, the criminal misuse of Watkins and Clay, and that Roman had the best O-line in football when he was successful. When you're tied for 6th in yards per pass play and tied for 5th in fewest INTs thrown, you simply must do better than 28th in passing yards. Contrary to the widely held view that we should burn more prime resources on another WR, the facts seem to indicate we simply should be throwing the ball more. Thing is, I'm not sure Roman has the kind of passing game to really base his offense around that. The solution as I see it is not to widen the chasm even further between the coach's strength and the roster's strength by prioritizing WR, but rather to prioritize power running-type linemen that will make the roster's strength the same as Roman's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 You can look at the numbers, or you can think back to games that were completely derailed by the long stretches of back to back to back to back three and outs. If you don't remember things that way, fine. I do. This was all to suggest that the offense wasn't as good as people like to claim. There are stats that support both sides of the argument, but when the offense had to go and WIN games, it could not. And far too often its inability to get anything going ground the entire chances of victory to a nub. That's how I remember many games. We did not have the defense to overcome the offense's failures. Nobody is arguing this. It's like 2012 in reverse. They had more than 2 consecutive 3 and outs in only one of their 8 losses--the second NE game (they had a run of three). Yes Weo does that. For example, when he said it was ridiculous to think Manning and Broncos can win the SB. Edit: and the supported it with out of context stats Which were "out of context"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 It is probably wise to steer clear of BigCat's "bafoonery" seeing as your own is giving you all you can handle. we all need to keep a tally on personal baffooneries. i am so far over my limit i may be unallowed to post next year. these things happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) god no. that was actually one best games for the defense. which is why when it was included as evidence of rex's "ineptness" earlier in this thread i went in full on troll mode to return the favor. I'll buy it. One down, two to go. It is a bit unusual that the play that ended up defining the game was clearly on Rex's shoulders but I would generally agree that it was not an epic meltdown like some of those other games were. Jax was similar. O screwed us up.....badly....but we got back in the game and were actually ahead through good work from both the D and O. Once ahead, the D promptly spit the bit. Annoying for sure but it's not like that game can be laid at the feet of the defense. But forget about 2015 if you wish. What is it about Rex's past, or his scheme, that make you think he will be successful in 2016 by either using his scheme or by changing something. What has he shown? How will he succeed? I want to see it, but what I see is him hiring his brother and taking Hawaiian vacations. Edited February 16, 2016 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Yeah I agree with this. We didn't lose to the Giants for example because of the defense. Lets view all the games not just one..... I'll buy it. One down, two to go. It is a bit unusual that the play that ended up defining the game was clearly on Rex's shoulders but I would generally agree that it was not an epic meltdown like some of those other games were. Jax was similar. O screwed us up.....badly....but we got back in the game and were actually ahead through good work from both the D and O. Once ahead, the D promptly spit the bit. Annoying for sure but it's not like that game can be laid at the feet of the defense. But forget about 2015 if you wish. What is it about Rex's past, or his scheme, that make you think he will be successful in 2016 by either using his scheme or by changing something. What has he shown? How will he succeed? I want to see it, but what I see is him hiring his brother and taking Hawaiian vacations. That jags game was like quicksand Yes we dug out of the hole No....we should have never been in that hole to begin with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Well, other than giving the D a shorter field to defend. Not sure what you mean by this. It's true for me. I would love for Rex to be the one at the helm when the Bills win it all. It fits on so many levels. I just can't see it happening. When I ask Rex's chief apologist to explain why Rex can make it work he says I'm a poopy head so I won't listen. I will, in fact, listen but am beginning to suspect he can't explain his opinion so he is simply lashing out. And I do mean simply. Its hard to believe that when you post gems like "Cuz. Rex. Sux", ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 You are the TBD version of a filibuster. I am loathe to write a post like this, I'm here to talk about football and nothing else. But you've carried on now and for 3 pages you've said nothing. Either talk shop or let the adults do so, I beg of you. There are other threads to post in if you just like seeing your writing. People were sharing purely football opinions before you attempted in vain to discredit those legitimate takes. Can we just discuss the issues football without personal nonsense like the quote above, Mr. Filibuster? He is always like that dont let it bug ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Its hard to believe that when you post gems like "Cuz. Rex. Sux", ya know? Wishes, hopes and reality are often different things. I hope Rex and the Bills win it all next year. i hope he builds a legend here. I think he is a good guy and he cares about people and has the personality of someone I like to see win. But what he has shown as a coach indicates that the reality is that he sucks. I hope he turns it around but I don't see how. I'm just asking someone to explain how. No one has, least of all the one who posts the most about the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 we all need to keep a tally on personal baffooneries. i am so far over my limit i may be unallowed to post next year. these things happen Point taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Lets view all the games not just one..... Fair point- the second Patsterisk* game is another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 They had more than 2 consecutive 3 and outs in only one of their 8 losses--the second NE game (they had a run of three). Which were "out of context"? First Pats* game: following the opening drive TD, 5 consecutive drives without a first down, during which time the Pats* scored three touch downs NYG: failed to get a first down on seven of the first NINE drives, during which time NYG scored 17 points CIN: only 10 drives in the entire game, failed to get a first in 5 of them, including 4 consecutive drives in the first half, during which time CIN scored 17 points JAX: if you still need details for how the offense was responsible for this loss, I can't help you. PATS2: three consecutive three and outs in the second half, followed by a four and out, during which time Pats* scored 10 points. WAS: Start the game with four consecutive non-scoring drives, including two consecutive three and outs, during which time WAS scored 21 points. So, you'll have to remind me again, on what basis you're refuting my claim that stringing together three and outs had a huge impact on losses this year, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts