FLbills Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 No question Rex was probably a bad choice. But is that a one-off mistake or a pattern of mismanagement? I prefer to think it's a misstep. I would like to agree with you, but I think it is more indicative of a pattern of mismanagement. It's been going on for years. I understand that Pegs is new as an owner and wants things his way. However, if it was managed correctly over the years this topic wouldn't (shouldn't) even be up for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I thought the management of this team was quietly spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Well managed - yes Well coached - No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 No question Rex was probably a bad choice. But is that a one-off mistake or a pattern of mismanagement? I prefer to think it's a misstep. I think I'd up this baby to a misleap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I would like to agree with you, but I think it is more indicative of a pattern of mismanagement. It's been going on for years. I understand that Pegs is new as an owner and wants things his way. However, if it was managed correctly over the years this topic wouldn't (shouldn't) even be up for discussion. You have to be more specific. Do you mean because he waited a year to blow up the Sabres? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS 56 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 No, its not well managed. For an organization to be well managed it must demonstrate success in accomplishing its goals. The staff has to buy in to the organizational goals. Management has to support the staff in attainment of its goals. This year we witnessed players continually questioning management's decisions to the point of outright mutiny. We witnessed coaches and support staff unprepared for games (awful challenge decisions, headsets malfunctioning, games plans that no one seemed to understand let alone know about, record penalties, etc.). We are seeing a huge amount of player injuries indicating an organization not properly preparing its staff for the physical challenges of the game. I can go on and on but why repeat what has been discussed so many times on this board and others. I don't think this fact has escaped ownership. I am somewhat encouraged that ownership is considering bringing in someone to act as a consultant to make the necessary organizational changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Well managed - yes Well coached - No Mostly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 No, its not well managed. For an organization to be well managed it must demonstrate success in accomplishing its goals. The staff has to buy in to the organizational goals. Management has to support the staff in attainment of its goals. This year we witnessed players continually questioning management's decisions to the point of outright mutiny. We witnessed coaches and support staff unprepared for games (awful challenge decisions, headsets malfunctioning, games plans that no one seemed to understand let alone know about, record penalties, etc.). We are seeing a huge amount of player injuries indicating an organization not properly preparing its staff for the physical challenges of the game. I can go on and on but why repeat what has been discussed so many times on this board and others. I don't think this fact has escaped ownership. I am somewhat encouraged that ownership is considering bringing in someone to act as a consultant to make the necessary organizational changes. Yes indeed. I have faith that Pegs will get things straightened out, and a czar/consultant who knows how a non-dysfunctional NFL organization should be structured and run would help immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Management: okay--except for whoever thought hiring Ryan was a good idea. Head Coaching: abominable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLbills Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 You have to be more specific. Do you mean because he waited a year to blow up the Sabres? My bad, not referring to Sabres as I don't follow hockey and am not familiar with their situation. To be more specific, had the team been managed successfully through the years before Pegs, he wouldn't have the need to blow it up after a year. He bought into a mismanaged franchise and it appears to be headed the same way. I'm not saying he needs to clean house. I feel continuity is a big factor in success. But it has definitely been mismanaged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Good companies don't change management philosophies on the fly that don't represent their product or talent unless it totally failed (which it didn't). If you just spent 250 mil over 3-6 years on your defensive line built as a 4-3, why would GM, ie.. management, not stay the course when it was successful. Two ways to do that, 1) Hire your DC to be HC or 2) Hire Offensive HC, maybe Roman, keep DC. Either of those choices would have had much better success than the path chosen. There was a 3rd choice being Pegula's first full year, once Marrone left, he could have fired everyone and built the system from scratch. This now shows us Pegula's are not sure how to run sports organizations based on the product being players and schemes do matter to which players you select and pay. This happened with the Sabres and now is happening with the Bills. The Sabres maybe heading in the right direct with a new plan, time will tell. The Bills are on year two's path of Sabres after firing Ruff. They will find the GM doesn't know how to hire coaches, sign proper players to fit coaching philosophies. Hence freeagents, long term mis-spent contracts happened and the Sabres found themselves at the bottom of the league. The Bills are worse off since their record is abysmal the past 16 years. It is not good to be mediocre, bad draft picks don't get you better, bad freeagent signings prolong the issue. Poor coaching changes with philosophy issues destroy teams! The locker room is very divided. Management starts with the owner and this owner continues to make the same mistakes but someday will realize this and make the hard changes. For us fans, we have too endure and do what is smart for your pocket book. You have choices, 1) go to games or Direct TV out of town because you love the Bills no matter what. 2) Send a message and not do that, listen to the radio or free broadcasts and hope for the best or 3) lastly stop following all together. I pick 2, money talks and if they are getting less than they tend to understand the business side. Brandon can't threaten the team to leave yet. If the Bills pocket book hurts a little than they have to listen to the fans if they want to be credible. Edited January 2, 2016 by USABuffaloFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yes indeed. I have faith that Pegs will get things straightened out, and a czar/consultant who knows how a non-dysfunctional NFL organization should be structured and run would help immensely. Not happening for 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Not trying to be a smart a**, but when do we see the finished product? When are we allowed to start the judgement? IMO, a good coach doesn't need almost an entire year to implement a sound defensive scheme, especially when he was handed the keys to an already above average defense. That is an indicator of a managers inability to play to his employees strengths. I could understand more so if the defense was bad last year and he had nothing to build from, but that wasn't the case. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Pegs/Whaley/Brandon made their choice on the Rex hire. Rex was unable to take above average employees and make them successful. It all starts at the top. This team has been horribly managed at all levels. Some say more time is needed for the right players to be brought in to effectively run the defense. A good manager knows how to use the tools he has been given to succeed. If he can't get the job done then that falls on the ones who hired him. 1. Whaley and Ryan worked together one off-season. One. A single data point isn't a "trend". 2. Nobody has to "allow" anyone to form an opinion. Just go for it. 3. I don't know. The defense was "really good" for 1 year in a row. Is that a mark of greatness? This unit played the same basic scheme under Pettine, so why is the scheme suddenly "impossible to understand"? I find it strange to see some individuals going all out on this defense, while others stand around and watch. I agree that it doesn't make the coaching look very good. On the other hand, WTF is wrong with the "loafers"? Players play for each other and it looks like some of them are happy to let others do the heavy lifting by themselves. 4. Agreed that this team has been grossly mismanaged. Scoreboard. 5. I hardly am here to defend Rex Ryan's work. He didn't deliver. Shame on him. On the other hand, he's just the latest in a very long string of coaches and players who've failed and delivered wasted seasons that have made Bills fans bitter, jaded, and apathetic. In some ways, firing coach-du-jour immediately is like standing in a public restroom that hasn't been cleaned in years and repeatedly flushing the toilet in hopes that the mirrors will unbreak, the light bulbs will fix themselves, and all the stink and sewage will vanish. The cesspool will be as clean and fresh as a field of daisies with one more yank on the handle. Yeah, it may be necessary to fire Ryan. I understand the frustration and disappointment. The defense he and his brother run has looked like a big pile of processed chicken feed this year, with Rob getting canned. Rex's bombastic personality doesn't help things when the performance on the field leaves skid marks. Still, this is year 1 of Ryan+Whaley. Comparing it apples to apples with Marrone+Whaley means what? Isn't one of the Whaley general CYAs that he isn't responsible for and had nothing to do with anything until Nix retired? I dunno, man. It sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 No, its not well managed. For an organization to be well managed it must demonstrate success in accomplishing its goals. The staff has to buy in to the organizational goals. Management has to support the staff in attainment of its goals. This year we witnessed players continually questioning management's decisions to the point of outright mutiny. We witnessed coaches and support staff unprepared for games (awful challenge decisions, headsets malfunctioning, games plans that no one seemed to understand let alone know about, record penalties, etc.). We are seeing a huge amount of player injuries indicating an organization not properly preparing its staff for the physical challenges of the game. I can go on and on but why repeat what has been discussed so many times on this board and others. I don't think this fact has escaped ownership. I am somewhat encouraged that ownership is considering bringing in someone to act as a consultant to make the necessary organizational changes. Where do you see evidence to this, Polian can't do to his ESPN contract he needs to remain anonymous. Maybe at years end something changes but as of today Pegula's gave a Team Statement that GM and HC remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 1. Whaley and Ryan worked together one off-season. One. A single data point isn't a "trend". 2. Nobody has to "allow" anyone to form an opinion. Just go for it. 3. I don't know. The defense was "really good" for 1 year in a row. Is that a mark of greatness? This unit played the same basic scheme under Pettine, so why is the scheme suddenly "impossible to understand"? I find it strange to see some individuals going all out on this defense, while others stand around and watch. I agree that it doesn't make the coaching look very good. On the other hand, WTF is wrong with the "loafers"? Players play for each other and it looks like some of them are happy to let others do the heavy lifting by themselves. 4. Agreed that this team has been grossly mismanaged. Scoreboard. 5. I hardly am here to defend Rex Ryan's work. He didn't deliver. Shame on him. On the other hand, he's just the latest in a very long string of coaches and players who've failed and delivered wasted seasons that have made Bills fans bitter, jaded, and apathetic. In some ways, firing coach-du-jour immediately is like standing in a public restroom that hasn't been cleaned in years and repeatedly flushing the toilet in hopes that the mirrors will unbreak, the light bulbs will fix themselves, and all the stink and sewage will vanish. The cesspool will be as clean and fresh as a field of daisies with one more yank on the handle. Yeah, it may be necessary to fire Ryan. I understand the frustration and disappointment. The defense he and his brother run has looked like a big pile of processed chicken feed this year, with Rob getting canned. Rex's bombastic personality doesn't help things when the performance on the field leaves skid marks. Still, this is year 1 of Ryan+Whaley. Comparing it apples to apples with Marrone+Whaley means what? Isn't one of the Whaley general CYAs that he isn't responsible for and had nothing to do with anything until Nix retired? I dunno, man. It sucks. 1) A whole off season has multiple data points and data points are built from other sources to, like past seasons, players, coaches that remain, etc. A reset was not needed!! 2) Just go for it needs no data points, What on earth are you talking about? 3) Not sure your point here except players are at fault for loafing, I agree partly. This defense has been good sacking for 3 years in a row, 2 years in a row against the run and ended 4th in the league last year. So yes the fault is with the DC this year. Mario had 38 sacks past 3 years that averages to around 12.3 sacks per year. He played in more plays than any of those years and had 4 sack at 30 years old. Than is not a down ward trend that is a abomination of the data points! 4)Scoreboard was mismanaged? 5)Last year the Bills were 9-7 with no offense and a 4th rated defense, that does not mean; "he's just the latest in a very long string of coaches and players who've failed and delivered wasted seasons that have made Bills fans bitter, jaded, and apathetic". The Bills wrote a bad contract to Marrone with a 4mil out option. They than got cute and didn't promote for a 1-2 years the DC, that would have been the smart thing to do and just get a OC. They wasted grounds made on defense and brought in HC/DC that doesn't fit the personnel, instead using a defensive QB (LB) calling plays quickly as the offense changes personnel. They react rather than dictate to the offense what they can do. Our LB's don't fit that bill, nor do the safeties. You responded to a post critiquing Gm for Ryan's hire because it didn't fit our personnel and the team regressed. You than say it hasn't been long enough to critique that but in the same breathe bash Rex Ryan. Than you don't even acknowledge the defense was really ever on the right path that led to a successful 9-7 2014 campaign to build on. This is all Whaley's fault, he should have convinced Pegula's of a different path or stepped down. Rex has blame, game management, how he used players, etc.. but he didn't pick the players, Whaley did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boolay Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Well managed - yes Well coached - No How can a well managed team not make the playoffs for 16 years? Pegulas took over and think there is no issue with existing management and lean on that management to bring in Rex Ryan. That management previously hired a mediocre college coach from a mediocre program and proceeded to give him an option to cancel his contract with a large payout if ownership changed hands. Who does that???? Was there a huge line waiting to hire Doug Marrone to an NFL Head Coaching position??? Management of this team has been inept and the Pegula's simply are too nice to be successful as NFL owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 1. Whaley and Ryan worked together one off-season. One. A single data point isn't a "trend". 2. Nobody has to "allow" anyone to form an opinion. Just go for it. 3. I don't know. The defense was "really good" for 1 year in a row. Is that a mark of greatness? This unit played the same basic scheme under Pettine, so why is the scheme suddenly "impossible to understand"? I find it strange to see some individuals going all out on this defense, while others stand around and watch. I agree that it doesn't make the coaching look very good. On the other hand, WTF is wrong with the "loafers"? Players play for each other and it looks like some of them are happy to let others do the heavy lifting by themselves. 4. Agreed that this team has been grossly mismanaged. Scoreboard. 5. I hardly am here to defend Rex Ryan's work. He didn't deliver. Shame on him. On the other hand, he's just the latest in a very long string of coaches and players who've failed and delivered wasted seasons that have made Bills fans bitter, jaded, and apathetic. In some ways, firing coach-du-jour immediately is like standing in a public restroom that hasn't been cleaned in years and repeatedly flushing the toilet in hopes that the mirrors will unbreak, the light bulbs will fix themselves, and all the stink and sewage will vanish. The cesspool will be as clean and fresh as a field of daisies with one more yank on the handle. Yeah, it may be necessary to fire Ryan. I understand the frustration and disappointment. The defense he and his brother run has looked like a big pile of processed chicken feed this year, with Rob getting canned. Rex's bombastic personality doesn't help things when the performance on the field leaves skid marks. Still, this is year 1 of Ryan+Whaley. Comparing it apples to apples with Marrone+Whaley means what? Isn't one of the Whaley general CYAs that he isn't responsible for and had nothing to do with anything until Nix retired? I dunno, man. It sucks. Did you just call me bitter jaded AND apathetic. The nerve. Bitter and jaded , No question. Apathetic is where i must draw the line. /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 No. Poor communication on defense ... players communicating while opposing team is hiking ball ... all year. Defensive play calls coming in late. Bad defensive scheme for players on team. Poor communication between box and head coach for challenges. Headsets not charged ... continued headset problems on multiple games. I don't see these issues with the Cards, Panthers, Pats or other good teams. I agree Injuries were a major problem , and Henderson illness Penalties from loose coaching or confusion on substitutions I was hoping Rex would just fine tune the defense till he had his type of players There should be no excuse for getting defensive plays in late and last second substitutions EJ's headset not working in the Jags game still bugs me. It might have ruined his chance of being a ok back up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Not at all. When you lose more than you win consistently season after season tells me all I need to know. Trends rarely ever lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Last I heard Ralph Wilson was making roughly 40 million per year with the Bills. SHe sold her team for over 1 Billion. The fans came out in droves this year. The answer from a business aspect: yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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