dave mcbride Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I've been saying all along: he played well when healthy this year. Why would you cut a clearly good player with a reasonable contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 I've been saying all along: he played well when healthy this year. Why would you cut a clearly good player with a reasonable contract?i have always wanted to bring him back too but I think some have stated that he isn't a good fit for the scheme. Maybe not in theory due to his size but he played very well the first five weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 i have always wanted to bring him back too but I think some have stated that he isn't a good fit for the scheme. Maybe not in theory due to his size but he played very well the first five weeks. Maybe he's not a perfect fit, but he played well enough in it and he's certainly a good all around player. Maybe keep him and figure out ways to maximize his abilities?? His replacement likely won't be better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He's still effective and good DTs last well into their 30s. If it's one less hole to fill, there's no reason not to. I agree. I cringe when I see comments about parting ways with Mario AND Kyle. That would be real trouble. Finding capable (much less quality) DE and DT players is difficult enough, but throwing two new (and probably young) ones into the mix at the same time is a lot to ask. Â What does one expect them to say at this point in time? If it happens it may well be with a renegotiated contract. Fair enough on the coach speak comment. Regardless of their plans, that's what you say now. But I don't know that Kyle takes a pay cut, or that he's asked to do that. He's making $6.5M in 2016 and $6.8M in 2017 (the prorated signing bonus is a sunk cost). What're they going to agree to do to that contract? He could make less than that anywhere. I think the team is speaking truthfully. They want him here - if he's healthy. There's the rub because there's a real chance he won't be. $500k of his compensation in '16 & '17 is a roster bonus due on the 5th day of the season, so we'll know by March. They've got to decide by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I've been saying all along: he played well when healthy this year. Why would you cut a clearly good player with a reasonable contract? Â He should absolutely stay, but the contract is not reasonable. $6mil salary to a 33 yr old DT coming off an injury. Kyle got paid $9 mill in 2015 for 6 games. Reasonable is more in the $3 mill range, and that's what he would get in the open market. Hope he's getting good advice from his agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He should absolutely stay, but the contract is not reasonable. $6mil salary to a 33 yr old DT coming off an injury. Kyle got paid $9 mill in 2015 for 6 games. Reasonable is more in the $3 mill range, and that's what he would get in the open market. Hope he's getting good advice from his agent. If he's healthy and back to form, $3M is definitely way under value, even with age/injury risk. The only renegotiation I could see happening is asking him to take lower base salary, but adding incentives that allows him to earn it all back. Still, there's always a risk when asking a player to take a pay cut (or potential pay cut). What if he says "no"? Are you willing to let him go? You pretty much have to be resigned to that. That's where I balk. I'd rather just pay him his $6.5M than have to replace him. If he's healthy. If he's not, then this is all moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Incentive contracts are the best way to go, it would be the right way with Taylor also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 If he's healthy and back to form, $3M is definitely way under value, even with age/injury risk. The only renegotiation I could see happening is asking him to take lower base salary, but adding incentives that allows him to earn it all back. Still, there's always a risk when asking a player to take a pay cut (or potential pay cut). What if he says "no"? Are you willing to let him go? You pretty much have to be resigned to that. That's where I balk. I'd rather just pay him his $6.5M than have to replace him. If he's healthy. If he's not, then this is all moot. Â Take a look at this list and show me how Kyle is not an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Take a look at this list and show me how Kyle is not an outlier. A healthy Kyle Williams who is back to form is worth paying another $6.5M to this season. If he's not expected to be back to form and healthy, then the team doesn't have a choice and it's just time to move on. When discussing cutting/trading a player, you can't look at sunk costs like signing bonuses or past payments. Replacement cost and ability to replace are important. What's your plan there? Parting ways with him saves $5M in cap space in 2016 and quality DTs rarely make it to free agency. How are you going to improve the defense with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BfloBillsFan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015  Kyle is the man and I hope he plays for 20 yrs and finally wins a championship  curious to see if we lose badly these two games and they let Rex go. Also would they bring Schwartz back and would he come back and does he keep Roman go another direction  Source? updated.... IMO, The Bills want him only if he is willing to take a cut...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 A healthy Kyle Williams who is back to form is worth paying another $6.5M to this season. If he's not expected to be back to form and healthy, then the team doesn't have a choice and it's just time to move on. When discussing cutting/trading a player, you can't look at sunk costs like signing bonuses or past payments. Replacement cost and ability to replace are important. What's your plan there? Parting ways with him saves $5M in cap space in 2016 and quality DTs rarely make it to free agency. How are you going to improve the defense with that? Â Football is a hard nosed business and players' values can fall of dramatically from one season to another. We don't know what happened in the negotiations when the Bills optionally extended Kyle last year, but the $9 million in total pay was beyond his value. Â I think that Bills want to and should keep Kyle Williams. But at a $6 mil salary, is he going to be a better player & fit in a defense than $4 million to Damon Harrison or $3 million to Mike Devito? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Â He should absolutely stay, but the contract is not reasonable. $6mil salary to a 33 yr old DT coming off an injury. Kyle got paid $9 mill in 2015 for 6 games. Reasonable is more in the $3 mill range, and that's what he would get in the open market. Hope he's getting good advice from his agent. $6 million for a good vet when the cap is going way up (to between $147 and $155 million) isn't a problem. $6 million ain't what it used to be vis-a-vis the cap, especially since rookie contracts are so much lower now for the first round guys. Plus the Bills have no money invested in the qb position. Edited December 23, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 $6 million for a good vet when the cap is going way up (to between $147 and $155 million) isn't a problem. $6 million ain't what it used to be vis-a-vis the cap, especially since rookie contracts are so much lower now for the first round guys. Plus the Bills have no money invested in the qb position. Â It is a problem when you already have $25 mil committed to Hughes & Dareus, and still need to bring in a Harrison/Devito and Mario's replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Â It is a problem when you already have $25 mil committed to Hughes & Dareus, and still need to bring in a Harrison/Devito and Mario's replacement. A healthy Kyle Williams is better than those players. There's a certain randomness to injuries - as is very clear this year - so just because he's hurt this year with a relatively minor knee thing is not predictive of next season. Before this season, he missed 14 out of 144 games in his career, and had played in 53 out of 54 before getting hurt this season. Â I vote for keeping the better players. Edited December 23, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Incentive contracts are the best way to go, it would be the right way with Taylor also. Why would TT take one? When if he hits free agency he will get paid. or the Bills will franchise him. Like somene here yesterday Mentioned. if the trade season was still open TT could possibly pull in a #1 pick. The guy is nit picked to death. truth is he was one of very few bright spots this season. You no longer have to cover your eyes when the Bills throw deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Hey, big Pat Williams played a dozen years in the middle, Kyle just played his 10th. Â No reason Kyle shouldn't be back for another season or two. With over $30M in career earnings, he obviously doesn't need the scratch, but he's the type of guy that loves the game and being a leader. Â I remember hearing him on a radio interview saying he drives home from Buffalo after the season by himself (to Louisiana I think) does a lot of soul searching on the way, thinking about whether he's into playing the following year. If I were Rex, I'd be the one driving him, feeding him burgers and beers in the shotgun seat and talking about next year and what we can fix. That sounds like a terrible drive. You can count me out of that one. There's nothing worse than a road trip with a blowhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He's one of the few vocal leaders on the team and in the locker room. He's very athletic for a guy his size. He's been here his whole career. And he can fit into the defense both as a 3rd down NT, and a 5 technique DE. I would not get rid of him unless we had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He's one of the few vocal leaders on the team and in the locker room. He's very athletic for a guy his size. He's been here his whole career. And he can fit into the defense both as a 3rd down NT, and a 5 technique DE. I would not get rid of him unless we had to. This would be the main reason to keep him. Lord know we need leaders in that locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 He's one of the few vocal leaders on the team and in the locker room. He's very athletic for a guy his size. He's been here his whole career. And he can fit into the defense both as a 3rd down NT, and a 5 technique DE. I would not get rid of him unless we had to.spot on, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He's one of the few vocal leaders on the team and in the locker room. He's very athletic for a guy his size. He's been here his whole career. And he can fit into the defense both as a 3rd down NT, and a 5 technique DE. I would not get rid of him unless we had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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