The Real Reason the Defense Has Struggled

[Flip Johnson]

Isn't very exciting.

 

It is the injuries.

 

And this is not an excuse.

 

In 2014 the base defense was:

 

Mario, Kyle, Dareus, and Hughes up front. Together they missed a grand total of two games, one was for suspension.

 

The starting linebacking corps was Preston Brown, Brandon Spikes, and Nigel Bradham. They missed two games, one was for suspension.

 

The starting secondary was Gilmore, McKelvin, Searcy, and Aaron Williams, with Robey & Graham playing extensively. McKelvin suffered the only serious injury of the year in November. Gilmore missed two games, and Aaron Williams missed one.

 

The key subs on that team (Corbin Bryant, Stefan Charles, Duke Williams, Baccari Rambo, Manny Lawson) were all healthy.

 

2015:

Kyle Williams played six games and is IR'd

Aaron Williams has basically missed the entire year.

McKelvin missed more than half the season.

Mario has obviously been playing through injury and is in physical decline.

Ty Powell out all season.

Gilmore missed four.

Bradham has missed three games and counting.

 

This combined with our strict attention to offense in the offseason means that our effective part-time players (Bryant, Lawson, Rambo) are playing all the time and getting exposed, and our depth guys are the likes of Randall Johnson, Ron Brooks, AJ Tarpley, IK Enemkpali, Kevin Reddick, TJ Barnes, etc.

 

The defense on the field against the Eagles and Redskins is not a talented defense. We can talk about scheme or Mario's discontent, but it isn't the point.

 

This is not an excuse - it means Whaley needs to find better depth and Rex needs to get more out of marginal players. There seems to be a narrative that this is a highly talented defense that has underperformed. It is in reality, a defense with 3-5 excellent players, some of whom have been hurt, and a lot of backups.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Flip Johnson

[Rubes]

I know people like to call this an excuse, but I do agree that it's a big reason for the decline. That said, it's not the only reason, and it may not even be the biggest reason.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Good teams find ways to win. Blaming injuries is a cop out. Even when they were on the field, they didn't do jack.

[Kelly the Dog]

Like most things, there are several reasons working simultaneously. This is one of them for sure. I don't think it's the biggest.

 

There is no question Rex screwed this defense up from the get go, in at east four significant ways. He screwed with the scheme, he didn't put guys in positions to succeed, he had TERRIBLE game plans too often, he got away from the one thing that made him good, he didn't get the calls in, and he didn't adapt to the glaring problems either in game or between games.

 

It was just a horrible coaching job, although the players with their mistakes, whining, lack of effort at times and mindless penalties added to the myriad of problems. There is a lot of blame to go around and everyone is responsible, but none more than Rex.

[Rubes]

Like most things, there are several reasons working simultaneously. This is one of them for sure. I don't think it's the biggest.

 

There is no question Rex screwed this defense up from the get go, in at east four significant ways. He screwed with the scheme, he didn't put guys in positions to succeed, he had TERRIBLE game plans too often, he got away from the one thing that made him good, he didn't get the calls in, and he didn't adapt to the glaring problems either in game or between games.

 

It was just a horrible coaching job, although the players with their mistakes, whining, lack of effort at times and mindless penalties added to the myriad of problems. There is a lot of blame to go around and everyone is responsible, but none more than Rex.

 

Good summary.

[Flip Johnson]

Like most things, there are several reasons working simultaneously. This is one of them for sure. I don't think it's the biggest.

 

There is no question Rex screwed this defense up from the get go, in at east four significant ways. He screwed with the scheme, he didn't put guys in positions to succeed, he had TERRIBLE game plans too often, he got away from the one thing that made him good, he didn't get the calls in, and he didn't adapt to the glaring problems either in game or between games.

 

It was just a horrible coaching job, although the players with their mistakes, whining, lack of effort at times and mindless penalties added to the myriad of problems. There is a lot of blame to go around and everyone is responsible, but none more than Rex.

 

I think it is the biggest. Rex took over and thought that he could work magic with this defense given its obvious talent. Whaley went after only offensive players. If the team had been as healthy as they were in 2014 they would have been excellent on defense. Look at the Colts game. However, 2014 was freakishly lucky from an injury standpoint. Once their depth was tested, Rex/Thurman were not able to get average to below average players up to speed in time.

[BmarvB]

Good teams find ways to win. Blaming injuries is a cop out. Even when they were on the field, they didn't do jack.

 

I agree. Look at some of the other teams like the Steelers, Patriots, etc.... They find ways to keep winning despite who gets hurt. Even the year when Brady went down for the season and Cassel came in, they didn't miss a beat, Just kept right on winning.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I think it is the biggest. Rex took over and thought that he could work magic with this defense given its obvious talent. Whaley went after only offensive players. If the team had been as healthy as they were in 2014 they would have been excellent on defense. Look at the Colts game. However, 2014 was freakishly lucky from an injury standpoint. Once their depth was tested, Rex/Thurman were not able to get average to below average players up to speed in time.

Rex made an enormous tactical error which crippled the defense. He decided to try to make some hybrid new defense out of one that was working on all cylinders. But it took away from his own best quality and it took our guys out of theirs. He needed to either keep it mostly the same until it didn't work, OR, change it from day one and teach them his defense and stick to it. He did neither and it was a disaster. The only game the entire season we saw "the Rex Ryan defense" was the second Pats** game and it looked great for the most part. Then he abandoned it again. It was mind boggling.

[Flip Johnson]

 

I agree. Look at some of the other teams like the Steelers, Patriots, etc.... They find ways to keep winning despite who gets hurt. Even the year when Brady went down for the season and Cassel came in, they didn't miss a beat, Just kept right on winning.

 

 

This is a nonsensical argument. Did you watch the Steelers play without Roethlisberger? Have you seen the Pats without Gronk? The '08 Pats lost Brady and their record dropped by 5 games.

[The Frankish Reich]

Isn't very exciting.

 

It is the injuries.

 

And this is not an excuse.

 

In 2014 the base defense was:

 

Mario, Kyle, Dareus, and Hughes up front. Together they missed a grand total of two games, one was for suspension.

 

The starting linebacking corps was Preston Brown, Brandon Spikes, and Nigel Bradham. They missed two games, one was for suspension.

 

The starting secondary was Gilmore, McKelvin, Searcy, and Aaron Williams, with Robey & Graham playing extensively. McKelvin suffered the only serious injury of the year in November. Gilmore missed two games, and Aaron Williams missed one.

 

The key subs on that team (Corbin Bryant, Stefan Charles, Duke Williams, Baccari Rambo, Manny Lawson) were all healthy.

 

2015:

Kyle Williams played six games and is IR'd

Aaron Williams has basically missed the entire year.

McKelvin missed more than half the season.

Mario has obviously been playing through injury and is in physical decline.

Ty Powell out all season.

Gilmore missed four.

Bradham has missed three games and counting.

 

This combined with our strict attention to offense in the offseason means that our effective part-time players (Bryant, Lawson, Rambo) are playing all the time and getting exposed, and our depth guys are the likes of Randall Johnson, Ron Brooks, AJ Tarpley, IK Enemkpali, Kevin Reddick, TJ Barnes, etc.

 

The defense on the field against the Eagles and Redskins is not a talented defense. We can talk about scheme or Mario's discontent, but it isn't the point.

 

This is not an excuse - it means Whaley needs to find better depth and Rex needs to get more out of marginal players. There seems to be a narrative that this is a highly talented defense that has underperformed. It is in reality, a defense with 3-5 excellent players, some of whom have been hurt, and a lot of backups.

Correct. Look just at last year's D line since that is the subject of so much frustration this year. Not only did you have the starting 4 miss only 2 games combined -- a truly astonishing fact in today's NFL -- you also had the backup rotation intact for basically the full year. I agree that Mario is in decline, but that's also to be expected (he's 30). And you are also correct that the obvious focus on improving the offense meant not improving depth on the defense. The results were pretty much as expected: the offense improved, the defense regressed. No, Rex didn't do it any favors with his egotistic "scheme", but even if Schwartz had stayed the defense would have declined considerably.

[jr1]

firing the defensive staff from a 9-7 team and replacing it with the staff from a 4-12 team

[Flip Johnson]

Ultimately, I say that this is a two year project. Greg Roman came in with the reputation that his offenses could run the ball. He wanted a big-time RB, a mobile QB, a versatile TE, and a nasty guard. He got it - and guess what - the Bills lead the NFL in rushing.

 

Rex's ego told him he could scheme his way to success with whoever. The truth is he needs the players to make it work. That's what 2016 should be about.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Flip Johnson

[PromoTheRobot]

They had problems since week 2. Once Belichick showed the NFL how to play us it was over. Rex had no answer.

[FireChan]

 

I think it is the biggest. Rex took over and thought that he could work magic with this defense given its obvious talent. Whaley went after only offensive players. If the team had been as healthy as they were in 2014 they would have been excellent on defense. Look at the Colts game. However, 2014 was freakishly lucky from an injury standpoint. Once their depth was tested, Rex/Thurman were not able to get average to below average players up to speed in time.

We struggled when healthy.

[Buffalo_Lobsters]

This is more than injuries. Injuries definitely hurt but even when the defense was healthy they didn't pressure the QB. Example, the 1st Pats game. The D was healthy but looked like a JV team.

Mario's days are as a Bill are coming to an end. There is no way he is worth $19M

But Rex has to take the majority of the blame.

The players didn't get or buy-in to his scheme (or both) and that's on Rex.

 

Maybe the D will be healthier next year.

[GG]

Rex made an enormous tactical error which crippled the defense. He decided to try to make some hybrid new defense out of one that was working on all cylinders. But it took away from his own best quality and it took our guys out of theirs. He needed to either keep it mostly the same until it didn't work, OR, change it from day one and teach them his defense and stick to it. He did neither and it was a disaster. The only game the entire season we saw "the Rex Ryan defense" was the second Pats** game and it looked great for the most part. Then he abandoned it again. It was mind boggling.

 

So which is it? I keep reading that Rex's error was installing his scheme and not running Schwartz's defense or some hybrid of the two. You're saying the error was him running the hybrid and not committing to his defense.

 

My take on it is that he was overconfident in his ability to pound the defense into the players over the course of the year, and belatedly realized that Preston Brown wasn't up to the responsibility to call the game and hilarity ensued.

[Flip Johnson]

 

So which is it? I keep reading that Rex's error was installing his scheme and not running Schwartz's defense or some hybrid of the two. You're saying the error was him running the hybrid and not committing to his defense.

 

My take on it is that he was overconfident in his ability to pound the defense into the players over the course of the year, and belatedly realized that Preston Brown wasn't up to the responsibility to call the game and hilarity ensued.

 

Agreed - I don't think we've heard the "Well, Preston Brown's a coach's kid" line since August.

[The Big Cat]

 

So which is it? I keep reading that Rex's error was installing his scheme and not running Schwartz's defense or some hybrid of the two. You're saying the error was him running the hybrid and not committing to his defense.

 

My take on it is that he was overconfident in his ability to pound the defense into the players over the course of the year, and belatedly realized that Preston Brown wasn't up to the responsibility to call the game and hilarity ensued.

 

Gee, I don't know. May be the Kill-Rex-Now-Hoardes have to keep changing the reasons they're pissed because their reasons were always **** to begin with.

 

 

Agreed - I don't think we've heard the "Well, Preston Brown's a coach's kid" line since August.

 

 

Rex had neither safety nor linebacker this year. Sorry. Wait. No.

 

I'm sorry, we can't deal with that reality. It's an excuse.

Edited December 22, 2015 by The Big Cat

[shane nelson]

IMO 4 things cause injures

-Bad Luck (which is the majority)

-Players out of position

-Smaller players vs larger players

-Strength and conditioning

 

3 of the 4 can be addressed. Good coaches make adversity opportunity. Others make it an excuse.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

So which is it? I keep reading that Rex's error was installing his scheme and not running Schwartz's defense or some hybrid of the two. You're saying the error was him running the hybrid and not committing to his defense.

 

My take on it is that he was overconfident in his ability to pound the defense into the players over the course of the year, and belatedly realized that Preston Brown wasn't up to the responsibility to call the game and hilarity ensued.

It's both. I'm saying he had to do one or the other and he did neither. He created a new defense and yet totally went away from his attacking style.