BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Except that tells half of the story. The Bills had the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and when healthy Clay was a matchup nightmare. His presence impacts the way that teams defense you and his versatility helps disguise what the Bills are doing. All of those factors played a big part in why the Bills offense was much improved. That does not even get into his playmaking ability which was on display in a few games. He is one of the better TEs in the league. If he was the offensive matchup nightmare that you make him out to be that would be indicated in his YAC (which is on par with Chandler). Reality is he is an overall improvement over Chandler but not near what they are paying him (also it is a disastrous contract in terms of how it is structured). He is not a top 3 TE in the game as his pay indicates. An overall improvement but still a bad signing IMO when you factor in the contract and his inability to stay healthy. Edited February 18, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Clay is 1,000,000,0000x better than Chandler. He can do so much more. Chandler is a bad athlete, with so, so hands that can't block. He was in the ultimate system for a TE and had as many catches as me from week 12 on. Pass Exaggeration is a tool of those unarmed in a battle of wits. I suggest you go apply to work for Pats*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 If he was the offensive matchup nightmare that you make him out to be that would be indicated in his YAC (which is on par with Chandler). Reality is he is an overall improvement over Chandler but not near what they are paying him (also it is a disastrous contract in terms of how it is structured). He is not a top 3 TE in the game as his pay indicates. An overall improvement but still a bad signing IMO when you factor in the contract and his inability to stay healthy. His contract is friendly after this year. He doubled Chandler's stats. To Gunner's point though we really shouldn't be comparing them. Clay is a #1 and Chandler is 2/3. The injuries are a concern but when he was healthy (which he may never be) he had a big impact. The coaches talked a lot about what he does in terms of disguise. He is so versatile that you can line him up in a variety of places depending on the defensive personnel. They paid the price to get a guy that they thought would have a large impact. They are now the number 1 rushing team and have a TE that had as good a season as any Bills TE (at least in the last 50 years). He was a good addition. Exaggeration is a tool of those unarmed in a battle of wits. I suggest you go apply to work for Pats*.Are you also one that believes 1B wasn't large enough? Others have suggested 1.2B. Chandler is pretty useless. He's just so physically limited that he will never be a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Not 1.2 billion times better. Literally 1.2 times better. Like only slightly better. Chandler was a good receiving tight end. You said he had so-so hands. I thought he had great hands. And Clay had 2-3 really bad drops this season- worse than I ever remember from Chandler. That being said, Clay is certainly more nimble and appears to be a more complete player. But not as huge of a difference as their respective contracts would indicate. Perhaps he proves me wrong in year two but overall, I was disappointed in what we got from Clay this season. Edited February 18, 2016 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Not 1.2 billion times better. Literally 1.2 times better. Like only slightly better. Chandler was a good receiving tight end. You said he had so-so hands. I thought he had great hands. And Clay had 2-3 really bad drops this season- worse than I ever remember from Chandler. That being said, Clay is certainly more nimble and appears to be a more complete player. But not as huge of a difference as their respective contracts would indicate.Oh then we are in disagreement. Obviously 1B was hyperbole but I would rather have Clay at $8M for than Chandler at $1M. He just offers so much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Oh then we are in disagreement. Obviously 1B was hyperbole but I would rather have Clay at $8M for than Chandler at $1M. He just offers so much more. I'll say this: I think we got rid of Chandler at JUST the right time as it is evident that he was starting to really slow down. But say, 2011 Chandler vs. 2015 Clay? I don't know, you tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Oh then we are in disagreement. Obviously 1B was hyperbole but I would rather have Clay at $8M for than Chandler at $1M. He just offers so much more. Chandler has always been basically a pedestrian/utility player. But to his credit he has carved out a long 9 year career and made decent money. I'm confident that he has more money in the bank than a lot of better and financially rewarded players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'll say this: I think we got rid of Chandler at JUST the right time as it is evident that he was starting to really slow down. But say, 2011 Chandler vs. 2015 Clay? I don't know, you tell me. 2011 was the same guy just forced targets. Lots of mediocre players put up stats in that offense due to good design and the fact that SOMEBODY had to accumulate stats. Jones and Nelson and.... Guys without a home in the league were starters and accumulated numbers despite being depth/fringe. Chandlers not agile and he's not powerful, he's big but plays smaller than his frame. Clay is more dynamic. He's a better route runner, can run more complex routes with that added agility, better blocker (which both helps disguise intent and contribute to a power run game). I'd say an "is he worth the pay" conversation is fair but a chandler vs clay who is better (even in chandlers prime) is silly. We saw the league very clearly not care about chandler in his prime as a free agent if you need some backing of that amatuer opinion I offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) I'll say this: I think we got rid of Chandler at JUST the right time as it is evident that he was starting to really slow down. But say, 2011 Chandler vs. 2015 Clay? I don't know, you tell me.Chandler was ALWAYS a product of opportunities. That was the issue. He was never good but was always brought in as a #1 with no other options. You could have given 70 TEs the snaps and targets that he got and probably equaled his production. The more balls that he got the worse the Bills were. I bring it up a lot but in 2014 the Bills were 1-6 when Chandler and Hogan combined for 7 catches. The win, vs. Vikings, may have been the Bills worst game. Teams were fine with the ball headed his way because he couldn't hurt them. They released him and not 1 team in the league even brought him in for a visit. That should tell you what scouts and coaches think. If NE releases him this year as it appears, he will struggle to make a roster. To the point about overpaying for Clay they had to in order to get him. Was he worth it? Time will tell on that but the offense was much improved all around. He definitely contributed to that. Edited February 18, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I wonder what would ever possess Patriot fans to think that a Bills reject would be a big time player on a Super Bowl team. If Chandler was any good he would still be in Buffalo. It's not like the Bills are overflowing with talent at TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) I wonder what would ever possess Patriot fans to think that a Bills reject would be a big time player on a Super Bowl team. If Chandler was any good he would still be in Buffalo. It's not like the Bills are overflowing with talent at TE.as I recall some Pats fans announced they had "two elite TEs" with the addition of Chandler. Wtf. Now they hate him because he couldn't even hold down the fort when Gronk was hurt. Edited February 19, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 There was no way Miami was going to match a multi-year offer (front loaded or not) for Clay based off their own doctors concerns on his knees. Especially with the risk involved with one that averages top 3 TE money. Miami put the screws to the Bills on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Not 1.2 billion times better. Literally 1.2 times better. Like only slightly better. Chandler was a good receiving tight end. You said he had so-so hands. I thought he had great hands. And Clay had 2-3 really bad drops this season- worse than I ever remember from Chandler. That being said, Clay is certainly more nimble and appears to be a more complete player. But not as huge of a difference as their respective contracts would indicate. Perhaps he proves me wrong in year two but overall, I was disappointed in what we got from Clay this season. Chris' hand were not so good his last year with us. and i think he even fell short in the redzone which he should have excelled at. Clay. we shall see. his stats were nice his threat is very real. But no, he did not reach the expectations yet. let TT and he get tight this offseason and see what is what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 There was no way Miami was going to match a multi-year offer (front loaded or not) for Clay based off their own doctors concerns on his knees. Especially with the risk involved with one that averages top 3 TE money. Miami put the screws to the Bills on this one. Incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Incorrect. Saying incorrect without any explanation just shows you how little you actually know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Saying incorrect without any explanation just shows you how little you actually know. Considering your staggering ability to mischaracterize my posts when I use more than one word I'm not so sure. Saying Miami wasn't going to try to match is just flat out wrong. Even casual fans know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Considering your staggering ability to mischaracterize my posts when I use more than one word I'm not so sure. Saying Miami wasn't going to try to match is just flat out wrong. Even casual fans know this. Again no substance to prove that I am incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Again no substance to prove that I am incorrect. Prove that your speculation is incorrect? Do your own homework. Prove they weren't going to match. That's right, you can't because you're speculating. And you're doing it poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Prove that your speculation is incorrect? Do your own homework. Prove they weren't going to match. That's right, you can't because you're speculating. And you're doing it poorly. It's not speculation do your homework. It is right from the doctors mouth regarding their health report on his knees. You can connect the dots anyway you like. The Bills got played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 It's not speculation do your homework. It is right from the doctors mouth regarding their health report on his knees. You can connect the dots anyway you like. The Bills got played. Yes, because Miami isn't above trying to save face after losing out on their star TE to a divisional rival. You're gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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