BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yes, because Miami isn't above trying to save face after losing out on their star TE to a divisional rival. You're gullible. All the problems with his knees with Miami are true though. It's not made up to save face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) All the problems with his knees with Miami are true though. It's not made up to save face.Saying it was going to prevent them from matching IS made up speculation though. Which is the point. And I can't take anyone seriously who 1) is a proven liar and troll and 2) thinks Clay wasn't a massive upgrade over Chandler. So, I stand by my one word response. Incorrect. Edited February 19, 2016 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Saying it was going to prevent them from matching IS made up speculation though. Which is the point. And I can't take anyone seriously who 1) is a proven liar and troll and 2) thinks Clay wasn't a massive upgrade over Chandler. So, I stand by my one word response. Incorrect. When there own doctors say they have questions with his knees even holding up two years it is a safe bet they are not going to match on average 8 mill guaranteed/year contract, front loaded or not. The Bills overplayed their interest in Clay and they got burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 When there own doctors say they have questions with his knees even holding up two years it is a safe bet they are not going to match on average 8 mill guaranteed/year contract, front loaded or not. The Bills overplayed their interest in Clay and they got burned. Speculation and woefully incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Speculation and woefully incorrect. It's because you do not have a valid response in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hes better than: Gragg, Mulligan, Oleary, Gray and to be honest Clay didnt have a stellar year. no where Clay and not close to Gray either, I like O'Leary's upside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 It's because you do not have a valid response in return. You're speculating and treating it as fact. You can't have a rational conversation with irrational people. Especially someone like you who lies and trolls for sport. Clay's value to this team and Roman's scheme is clear to all those who watched last season. His contract was designed and structured to make it near impossible for Miami to match (which they wanted to do, and would have done had the Bills low balled it) and he was never going to live up to the numbers of his deal. This very fact, that his numbers weren't going to match his contract, was pointed out several times by many posters including me. But because he didn't put up gaudy receiving numbers doesn't mean he wasn't valuable or a MASSIVE upgrade over what the Bills had. And speculating that the Dolphins were never going to match the deal is not only impossible to prove (as is all speculation in hindsight) is just further proof of your agenda. You don't like Whaley's plan. That's fine. But you're just real trollish (and dishonest) about your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 You're speculating and treating it as fact. You can't have a rational conversation with irrational people. Especially someone like you who lies and trolls for sport. Clay's value to this team and Roman's scheme is clear to all those who watched last season. His contract was designed and structured to make it near impossible for Miami to match (which they wanted to do, and would have done had the Bills low balled it) and he was never going to live up to the numbers of his deal. This very fact, that his numbers weren't going to match his contract, was pointed out several times by many posters including me. But because he didn't put up gaudy receiving numbers doesn't mean he wasn't valuable or a MASSIVE upgrade over what the Bills had. And speculating that the Dolphins were never going to match the deal is not only impossible to prove (as is all speculation in hindsight) is just further proof of your agenda. You don't like Whaley's plan. That's fine. But you're just real trollish (and dishonest) about your agenda. It's a matter about being diligent and having common sense rather than speculation. In terms of the contract the Bills got played plain and simple. He is not a tier 1 TE based on his metrics. Actually, there isn't a single metric that shows he is actually deserving of top 3 TE money. Reality is the Bills are paying Clay Tier 1 money for a 2nd tier TE with major realiability and injury concerns. You think he is great because he is better than the trash the Bills have had of the past. His game isn't comparable to the best TE's making similar coin (past and present). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 It's a matter about being diligent and having common sense rather than speculation. In terms of the contract the Bills got played plain and simple. He is not a tier 1 TE based on his metrics. Actually, there isn't a single metric that shows he is actually deserving of top 3 TE money. Reality is the Bills are paying Clay Tier 1 money for a 2nd tier TE with major realiability and injury concerns. You think he is great because he is better than the trash the Bills have had of the past. His game isn't comparable to the best TE's making similar coin (past and present). No, it's speculation on your part to say definitely the Dolphins were never going to match. To argue otherwise is just trolling. The last sentence is also speculation on top of being incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) No, it's speculation on your part to say definitely the Dolphins were never going to match. To argue otherwise is just trolling. The last sentence is also speculation on top of being incorrect. Please show me with tangible numbers which indicate Charles Clay career is comparable with the best TE's in the game? His body of work is the epitome of a second tier TE in the NFL that only stayed healthy once in his career. Edited February 19, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Please show me with tangible numbers which indicate Charles Clay career is comparable with the best TE's in the game? Apologies, I meant your second to last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 There was no way Miami was going to match a multi-year offer (front loaded or not) for Clay based off their own doctors concerns on his knees. Especially with the risk involved with one that averages top 3 TE money. Miami put the screws to the Bills on this one.They wanted to match which is why the Bills structured the 2nd year cap hit. With Suh's contract structure the fins couldn't match. They turned around and handed a bunch of money to Jordan Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 They wanted to match which is why the Bills structured the 2nd year cap hit. With Suh's contract structure the fins couldn't match. They turned around and handed a bunch of money to Jordan Cameron. Of course they wanted to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 They wanted to match which is why the Bills structured the 2nd year cap hit. With Suh's contract structure the fins couldn't match. They turned around and handed a bunch of money to Jordan Cameron. Jordan Cameron signed before the offer sheet which kind of makes the structure pointless then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Jordan Cameron signed before the offer sheet which kind of makes the structure pointless then. Not really, the structure was based on Suh's deal not Cameron's. It was Suh's year 2 cap hit that tied their hands. That is why you see a big cap number for Clay this year. They can either spread it out by restructuring or as Bandit has suggested, pay the big amount this year and have him on a cap friendly deal moving forward. I am going to bow out of this now. You 2 can feel free to carry on: Edited February 19, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Not really, the structure was based on Suh's deal not Cameron's. It was Suh's year 2 cap hit that tied their hands. That is why you see a big cap number for Clay this year. They can either spread it out by restructuring or as Bandit has suggested, pay the big amount this year and have him on a cap friendly deal moving forward. The Jordan Cameron signing before the Bills offer sheet (adding another 4.6M to the 2015 cap and 9.5 to the 2016 cap) to the dolphins is just another example that there was no point in that type of structure for Clay. Once that happened there was no way they were going to match. They signed him before the offer sheet. They did not sign him after looking at the Bills offer sheet to Clay. Dolphins already moved on. Edited February 19, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Not really, the structure was based on Suh's deal not Cameron's. It was Suh's year 2 cap hit that tied their hands. That is why you see a big cap number for Clay this year. They can either spread it out by restructuring or as Bandit has suggested, pay the big amount this year and have him on a cap friendly deal moving forward. I am going to bow out of this now. You 2 can feel free to carry on: It's my fault for feeding the troll. I've bowed out. Apologies to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 It's a matter about being diligent and having common sense rather than speculation. In terms of the contract the Bills got played plain and simple. He is not a tier 1 TE based on his metrics. Actually, there isn't a single metric that shows he is actually deserving of top 3 TE money. Reality is the Bills are paying Clay Tier 1 money for a 2nd tier TE with major realiability and injury concerns. You think he is great because he is better than the trash the Bills have had of the past. His game isn't comparable to the best TE's making similar coin (past and present). I believe his average salary is 6th on this contract, and a whopping 300k a year less would knock him back to 10th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I believe his average salary is 6th on this contract, and a whopping 300k a year less would knock him back to 10th The first couple of years has him top 2, on average 4 when he signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Chandler had some nice games against the pats so it would make sense why they were interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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