Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Did you people see CP's cap figures for Moulds and Williams? Together, they alone will cost approx. 19 million of cap space in 06. Obviously this will never happen because one or both of them would be renegotiated or cut, but right now, they are both here! After this season, PW, if he remains, will be a year older, as will Vincent and Milloy. Clements is a UFA after the season. What I am driving at is (imo mind you), the Bills are poised to win NOW. Right now in 05, they are in a position to have a loaded football team and take a shot. Why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of an unproven qb? That's right, unproven. Despite posts comparing him to Kelly and Kemp, he is an unknown commodity and nothing else. I dont get it. Please, I am not sitting here thinking that I know as much as TD nor any coach, scout, etc. These men have forgotten more than I will ever learn about football, but you know what? Not all of their decisions are correct. I sure hope that this one is. This is going to be a nerve wracking situation until we bring in a competent backup. And PLEASE TD, KEEP KORDELL OUT OF WNY!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Did you people see CP's cap figures for Moulds and Williams? Together, they alone will cost approx. 19 million of cap space in 06. Obviously this will never happen because one or both of them would be renegotiated or cut, but right now, they are both here! After this season, PW, if he remains, will be a year older, as will Vincent and Milloy. Clements is a UFA after the season. What I am driving at is (imo mind you), the Bills are poised to win NOW. Right now in 05, they are in a position to have a loaded football team and take a shot. Why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of an unproven qb? That's right, unproven. Despite posts comparing him to Kelly and Kemp, he is an unknown commodity and nothing else. I dont get it. Please, I am not sitting here thinking that I know as much as TD nor any coach, scout, etc. These men have forgotten more than I will ever learn about football, but you know what? Not all of their decisions are correct. I sure hope that this one is. This is going to be a nerve wracking situation until we bring in a competent backup. And PLEASE TD, KEEP KORDELL OUT OF WNY!!!!!! 241082[/snapback] you're right. the team is built to win now. pretty damming evidence that they have ZERO confidence that the known commodity can produce with the current supporting cast. Hence they are forced to take drastic steps to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 What I am driving at is (imo mind you), the Bills are poised to win NOW. Right now in 05, they are in a position to have a loaded football team and take a shot.Why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of an unproven qb? 241082[/snapback] The bigger question is why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of a proven failure? Thank God they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 What I am driving at is (imo mind you), the Bills are poised to win NOW. Right now in 05, they are in a position to have a loaded football team and take a shot. Why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of an unproven qb? That's right, unproven. Despite posts comparing him to Kelly and Kemp, he is an unknown commodity and nothing else. I dont get it. This is going to be a nerve wracking situation until we bring in a competent backup. And PLEASE TD, KEEP KORDELL OUT OF WNY!!!!!! 241082[/snapback] If the Bills are poised to win NOW then they were also poised for the entire past season. It didn't happen despite the talent level. You feel that DB is getting too much of the blame, and we'll continue to disagree on that. Why put the team in the hands of an unproven QB? Because unproven is better than proven to fall short, imo. This team is good enough today but it did not happen. Time to turn the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 What I am driving at is (imo mind you), the Bills are poised to win NOW. Right now in 05, they are in a position to have a loaded football team and take a shot. Why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of an unproven qb? That's right, unproven. Despite posts comparing him to Kelly and Kemp, he is an unknown commodity and nothing else. I dont get it. 241082[/snapback] Bill...I am confident that TD will bring in a vet shortly after 3/1. If JP doesn't step up as the coaches and front office staff expect(or else they would not be making the decision to cut DB), the vet comes in and keeps the team competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shameless Homer Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 If the Bills are poised to win NOW then they were also poised for the entire past season. It didn't happen despite the talent level. You feel that DB is getting too much of the blame, and we'll continue to disagree on that. Why put the team in the hands of an unproven QB? Because unproven is better than proven to fall short, imo. This team is good enough today but it did not happen. Time to turn the page. 241182[/snapback] This is not entirely correct. McGahee did not play until after the 0-4 start. A poll was taken here about a month ago that asked; what would the Bills record have been had Willis played in the first 4 games. Most suggested, including many of Bledsoe's biggest detractors on this board, that we would have won at least 2 and as many as all 4 of those games. That means that the team we have right NOW our record would have been at LEAST 11-5 maybe 13-3. That was WITH Bledsoe. With 16 games of McGahee and a "mobile" quarterback I'm expecting at least 11 wins. Anything less will mean a mistake was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col_forbin Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The bigger question is why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of a proven failure? Thank God they didn't. 241126[/snapback] Thank you. Why give your team to a person you know can't get the job done??? Why not take a shot and see what happens, if it doesn't work out you are no worse off than you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven in MD Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 TD must be held accountable for this decision. If the Bills fail to make the playoffs next season, Ralph must hold him accountable. Unfortunately, I think he will get a free pass should JP stuggle, because the excuse is he is a "rookie" QB. I think that JP is a raw talent, but I am not sure that we will catch the same lightening in a bottle that Pittsburgh caught. It takes 2-3 years for a QB to mature in this league, and if the team is poised to win now, you do not put in a rookie QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 How many more seasons of Bledsoe not making the playoffs before you people would be OK with starting Losman? 1 more? 2 more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Did you people see CP's cap figures for Moulds and Williams? Together, they alone will cost approx. 19 million of cap space in 06. Obviously this will never happen because one or both of them would be renegotiated or cut, but right now, they are both here! After this season, PW, if he remains, will be a year older, as will Vincent and Milloy. Clements is a UFA after the season. What I am driving at is (imo mind you), the Bills are poised to win NOW. Right now in 05, they are in a position to have a loaded football team and take a shot. Why on earth would they choose to put the football in the hands of an unproven qb? That's right, unproven. Despite posts comparing him to Kelly and Kemp, he is an unknown commodity and nothing else. I dont get it. Please, I am not sitting here thinking that I know as much as TD nor any coach, scout, etc. These men have forgotten more than I will ever learn about football, but you know what? Not all of their decisions are correct. I sure hope that this one is. This is going to be a nerve wracking situation until we bring in a competent backup. And PLEASE TD, KEEP KORDELL OUT OF WNY!!!!!! 241082[/snapback] Bledsoe played like a rookie at the Ralph against a Steelers team playing backups with nothing on the line. This loss was so shocking it literally cost him his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I think the real question the bills asked themselves was can Drew Bledsoe take them to the super bowl. The game against the Steelers SCRUBS with everything on the line for a playoff berth showed that he cannot when we need to win. I liked Bledsoe as a player and enjoyed his 3 years stay here but it is time to move on. I am not saying JP will take us to the SB. But at least you know that DB will not, hence at least give a shot with him. The bills once again proved that they are class act all the way. They could have kept DB and cut him after June 1st and spread his cap hit, but they gave him an oppurtunity to make his own decision. Kudoes to RWS and TD and MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Did you people see CP's cap figures for Moulds and Williams? Together, they alone will cost approx. 19 million of cap space in 06. Obviously this will never happen because one or both of them would be renegotiated or cut, but right now, they are both here! After this season, PW, if he remains, will be a year older, as will Vincent and Milloy. Clements is a UFA after the season. 241082[/snapback] Those numbers are off. Moulds restrucutred his contract and will cost the team about 6.5 million in 2006. Are you talking Mike Williams or Pat Williams. Pat is UFA so I will assume Mike Williams. Not sure about Mike W's 2006 cap number but I guarentee its not 12.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 After this season, PW, if he remains, will be a year older, as will Vincent and Milloy.241082[/snapback] I think everyone on the team will be a year older in a year. Some might even be two years older. But probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Bledsoe played like a rookie at the Ralph against a Steelers team playing backups with nothing on the line. This loss was so shocking it literally cost him his job. 241348[/snapback] I was at that game, his throws were all over the place, there was no fire in him, and did not lead the team. That game proved to me that Drew will never take us to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Those numbers are off. Moulds restrucutred his contract and will cost the team about 6.5 million in 2006. Are you talking Mike Williams or Pat Williams. Pat is UFA so I will assume Mike Williams. Not sure about Mike W's 2006 cap number but I guarentee its not 12.5 million. 241397[/snapback] Moulds only did a simple restructure: 2005: $1.5 million salary (down from $5.5 million) 2006: $6.089 million (same) 2007: $7.25 million (added) The above is from CP, and he is talking about salary (not the bonus portion). MW cap numbers are: 2005: $9.17 million ($4 million salary, $2.17 million amort. , $3 million roster) 2006: same as 2005 2007: $7.17 million ($5 million salary, $2.17 million amort.) he also has a number of NLTBE's as well that could impact the cap. This too is from CP. Remember, I was speaking of 06. This adds up to 15 million plus, but without incentives. Anyway you slice it, it is an ugly picture indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 They were poised to win in 2002. They were poised to win in 2003. As a matter of fact Drew basically guaranteed a playoff spot. 2004 was an unknown and they have their best season of the Drew era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Here's the best info I could find http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor..._len&id=1990017 Complete financial details were not yet available, since the contract has yet to be signed, but Moulds will likely earn $18 million to $19 million over the next three seasons. For 2005, Moulds will bank $6.5 million, the total due to him under his existing contract, but the money will be paid in a manner that will allow the Bills to recoup more than $3 million in cap room. Under the existing contract, Moulds was scheduled to receive a $1 million roster bonus and a base salary of $5.5 million. The reworked contract pays him a signing bonus of $5 million and a base salary of $1.5 million. By placing most of his '05 compensation in a signing bonus, which can be prorated over the term of the contract, the Bills reduced Moulds' salary cap charge from $8.6 million to slightly more than $5 million. From the above info it looks like Moulds received a 10.5 million signing bonus. Divide the bonus by 3 and you add 3.5 per year for amortisized bonus. He has a base salary of 1.5 million in 2005 (cap hit of 5 million). This means he probably has base salaries of 3 million in 2006 (cap hit of 6.5 million) , and 4 million in 2007 (cap hit of 7.5). If Moulds continues to play at a high level he may see another restructure in 2007, or he may get the ax. As for Mike Williams if he plays solid this year I'm sure the Bills will try to extend him The question is is he a team player and will he gice the Bills a chance to extend him and save us cash However your original post says 19 million cap hit between Mike and Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I am very worried about JP as well. He could absolutely stink--like against the Pats this year. But we know where DB gets us. Although I still think DB would have given us the best chance for the playoffs this upcoming year. We just would not have beaten the Steelers or the Pats. I think that is where the decision was made. DB might get us to the 1st round but really no further. Face it, DB played well enough the last 8 games to get us to the playoffs. However, he will not do well against the teams with a great defense--I think that is where the decision was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Here's the best info I could find http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor..._len&id=1990017 From the above info it looks like Moulds received a 10.5 million signing bonus. Divide the bonus by 3 and you add 3.5 per year for amortisized bonus. He has a base salary of 1.5 million in 2005 (cap hit of 5 million). This means he probably has base salaries of 3 million in 2006 (cap hit of 6.5 million) , and 4 million in 2007 (cap hit of 7.5). If Moulds continues to play at a high level he may see another restructure in 2007, or he may get the ax. 241413[/snapback] Looking at CPs numbers, it is unlikely that Moulds will last beyond 05 as a Bill unless he restructures again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I was at that game, his throws were all over the place, there was no fire in him, and did not lead the team. That game proved to me that Drew will never take us to the playoffs. 241403[/snapback] It didn't look any better on TV. Good luck Drew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I am very worried about JP as well. He could absolutely stink--like against the Pats this year. But we know where DB gets us. Although I still think DB would have given us the best chance for the playoffs this upcoming year. We just would not have beaten the Steelers or the Pats. I think that is where the decision was made. DB might get us to the 1st round but really no further. Face it, DB played well enough the last 8 games to get us to the playoffs. However, he will not do well against the teams with a great defense--I think that is where the decision was made. 241416[/snapback] Don't put any weight in to that appearance by JP. None what so ever. Give the kid the full year to make up your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I liken this move to the Flutie/Johnson move that TD made back in 2001. Flutie was a known commodity, who wasn't getting any younger. RJ, due to his past injury situation, was still somewhat of an unknown commodity. We had so much invested in RJ that TD and the coaching staff had to at least see whether or not RJ was the long term answer. Unfortunately, he proved not to be. "No harm done", says TD. "Now we know. Adios, RJ, I'll trade for Drew Bledsoe." We were in a similar situation with Drew and JP this year. Drew, the known commodity and JP the unknown. None of us knows just how good JP is going to be -- and neither does the coaching staff. I've read speculation that this move was based on how good JP has looked so far in the off-season, but that doesn't tell us anything -- and the coaches know that. The truth of the matter is that with so much at stake -- and with a team built to win now, the coaches needs to know right away whether of not they can count on JP. They don't have 2-3 years to let him while away his time on the bench and watch as Bledsoe leads us back to another borderline winning season. If JP isn't up to the challenge, then we will know -- and we can head into 2006 with another plan in mind. Kudos to the team for taking a chance at being great -- rather than playing it safe and settling for "good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I don't see why 6.5 million means Eric gets cut. If he has another 1000 yd 80 catch season However If they only converted this years salary into bonus then cutting him next year would probably mean that the he will still cost the team 4 - 5 million to release only saving us 1 - 2 million at best. I think Eric is safe for another year. I am more concerned about Mike Williams situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 I don't see why 6.5 million means Eric gets cut. If he has another 1000 yd 80 catch season However If they only converted this years salary into bonus then cutting him next year would probably mean that the he will still cost the team 4 - 5 million to release only saving us 1 - 2 million at best. I think Eric is safe for another year. I am more concerned about Mike Williams situations. 241497[/snapback] The way I understand it from CP, his salary alone would be over 6 mil. Add in the pro-rated bonus, and we could be approaching 8 mil. This is a ton for any receiver, let alone Moulds. Yes he is good, but his best days are probably behind him. Again, 8 mil??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJsackedagain Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The Bills are making a big mistake if they don't get a veteran in here to back up JP that has proven he can win in this league. .... You guys are right, the Bills are built to win now with the core of this team, and waiting for JP to play catch up might cost them that window of opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts