boyst Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 You mean the same Williams who has been out for concussion protocol? Jesus Chan, Thanks for looking that up So basically 2 years difference.....which in NFL RB years is a lifetime yep, the same one who is out performing mccoy. the same one who has missed games just like mccoy, cost us a lot less and had an injury that was unforeseeable. concussions are not something you can predict or speculate upon - unlike bad knees, and joints, etc. concussions happens which make these neat faux buzz words like cte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 You mean the same Williams who has been out for concussion protocol? Jesus Chan, Thanks for looking that up So basically 2 years difference.....which in NFL RB years is a lifetime No problem, but what does Karlos being concussed have to do with the fact that he's another RB who has been very productive with this O-line and messed up WR unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 No problem, but what does Karlos being concussed have to do with the fact that he's another RB who has been very productive with this O-line and messed up WR unit? because mccoy rushed for 1,000 yards a lot of times before and no other RB in the world can do it. duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Just because we got the best of the trade doesn't mean we should have made the trade. We should have never made the trade. That's my argument. McCoy acquisition has not benefited us as it should have. What he has done in the past is the past. Yes, he's been productive for us but anyone would have been productive. We have enough playmakers that not having McCoy would not have changed much. Find my how many RB's go to their second team and flourish. Even L Tomlinson didn't do super amazing awesome in NJ. Sometimes your football opinions baffle me. The whole reason you make the trade for McCoy is that he's not just "any old RB", he's elite. There are maybe three guys in the whole league who are on his level when he's 100% healthy -- and that may be generous. Yes, RB is a devalued position but it doesn't mean it's a worthless position. yep, the same one who is out performing mccoy. the same one who has missed games just like mccoy, cost us a lot less and had an injury that was unforeseeable. concussions are not something you can predict or speculate upon - unlike bad knees, and joints, etc. concussions happens which make these neat faux buzz words like cte. The only reason Williams was more productive was because Shady's been playing with one leg since training camp. Certainly you would admit running with a bad hamstring impedes a RB's production more than a concussion which was diagnosed after the game. You're going batty with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) They could easily have had mccoy AND kiko this year. The fact that Philly called them and they completed the deal in 20 minutes tells you how eager chip kelly was to get rid of him. A linebacker who can cover is just what this defense is missing right now. We had one of the better ones in the league and gave him away. I had no idea the deal only took 20 minutes. Looking it up to confirm that I came across this article which confirms that and gives interesting analysis on the trade. The "sports science" angle with the Eagles I found very interesting. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2015/03/04/eagles-sell-high-on-a-declining-lesean-mccoy/ Edited November 6, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Sometimes your football opinions baffle me. The whole reason you make the trade for McCoy is that he's not just "any old RB", he's elite. There are maybe three guys in the whole league who are on his level when he's 100% healthy -- and that may be generous. Yes, RB is a devalued position but it doesn't mean it's a worthless position. The only reason Williams was more productive was because Shady's been playing with one leg since training camp. Certainly you would admit running with a bad hamstring impedes a RB's production more than a concussion which was diagnosed after the game. You're going batty with this one. I agree with you Greggy, but McCoy has to produce at that elite level or else the trade was a mistake. Not saying he definitely won't or definitely will, but if he's just a top 12 RB over the next 2-3 years, the trade has to come into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Kiko had the best 4 game opening stretch of any rookie linebacker in Bills history. After that, not so much. A year from now, they would hve been lucky to get a 7th round pick for him. The legend lives on but reality does not quite live up to the legend. Kiko would not be starting for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Kiko's probably too fat to play - he's got some mad kitchen skills and too much time on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I saw him on the sidelines during the last Eagles game. His hair is at a whole new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I agree with you Greggy, but McCoy has to produce at that elite level or else the trade was a mistake. Not saying he definitely won't or definitely will, but if he's just a top 12 RB over the next 2-3 years, the trade has to come into question. No question, I agree. I'm speculating that his window hasn't closed and he's still an elite RB in this league as much as others are speculating the other way. I just think there's actual evidence this season -- albeit brief -- that McCoy is still at that elite level. It's up to McCoy to prove that to fans though on a week to week basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 No problem, but what does Karlos being concussed have to do with the fact that he's another RB who has been very productive with this O-line and messed up WR unit? It has to do that we dont know if we can count on him yet....he is missing games with an issue that could possibly retire him yep, the same one who is out performing mccoy. the same one who has missed games just like mccoy, cost us a lot less and had an injury that was unforeseeable. concussions are not something you can predict or speculate upon - unlike bad knees, and joints, etc. concussions happens which make these neat faux buzz words like cte. Your not getting it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) It has to do that we dont know if we can count on him yet....he is missing games with an issue that could possibly retire him Your not getting it And that has nothing to do with the fact that when healthy, he has been productive behind this line. Which you said other RB's can't do and is the crux of your argument with jb. No question, I agree. I'm speculating that his window hasn't closed and he's still an elite RB in this league as much as others are speculating the other way. I just think there's actual evidence this season -- albeit brief -- that McCoy is still at that elite level. It's up to McCoy to prove that to fans though on a week to week basis. I think we're all hoping that. Edited November 7, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 It has to do that we dont know if we can count on him yet....he is missing games with an issue that could possibly retire him Your not getting it you're Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 No question, I agree. I'm speculating that his window hasn't closed and he's still an elite RB in this league as much as others are speculating the other way. I just think there's actual evidence this season -- albeit brief -- that McCoy is still at that elite level. It's up to McCoy to prove that to fans though on a week to week basis. The flashes are brilliant. The injury. is an issue to watch. But no one can decide how that will turn out yet. O line and Roman are just getting it together slowly. I have hope. McCoy has looked amazing at times. vision, and #cutonadime is for real. burst , speed and eyes. is not afraid to earn a couple either. if he could get spelled by a healthy Karlos. (great pick for change of pace! ) this running game really could get rolling. screw Kiko. he jumped ship. quitter. boo. never liked him. Chip K. guy anyways Shady might be just the ticket for an offense that executes. did not care for him at first, but i truly think he is a gamer! Go Bills! you're you are And that has nothing to do with the fact that when healthy, he has been productive behind this line. Which you said other RB's can't do and is the crux of your argument with jb. I think we're all hoping that. I hope that we are All hoping just exactly, that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 No question, I agree. I'm speculating that his window hasn't closed and he's still an elite RB in this league as much as others are speculating the other way. I just think there's actual evidence this season -- albeit brief -- that McCoy is still at that elite level. It's up to McCoy to prove that to fans though on a week to week basis. i am betting he will not rise to top 3 back in the league; maybe top 10 at best at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) i am betting he will not rise to top 3 back in the league; maybe top 10 at best at this point. I thought you were betting we will want to cut him by this time next year? This year he won't put up top 3 numbers from a stats perspective, he's lost too many games. But that doesn't mean he can't be a top three back on the field down the stretch. 9 games is plenty of time to do some damage, especially if the D turns it around a bit and they start playing with more leads. Edited November 7, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I thought you were betting we will want to cut him by this time next year? This year he won't put up top 3 numbers from a stats perspective, he's lost too many games. But that doesn't mean he can't be a top three back on the field down the stretch. 9 games is plenty of time to do some damage, especially if the D turns it around a bit and they start playing with more leads. we the fans and people of this site. not the team. i do predict he is out of the league in 4-5 years; though, I its been fun watching Chris Johnson play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 A few things to add on McCoy: -Had the lowest yards per touch of ANY NFL player last season with at least 250 combined carries/receptions. -League average per carry production last year (4.2) and below average this year (3.9). -Blamed his declining numbers last year on a sore foot and heavy legs/fatigue he attributed to Chip Kelly's demanding practice schedule. His issues this year aren't really new at all. Personally I think he's lost a step physically and is more susceptible to injury because of his high mileage but perhaps more importantly he has also lost a step in terms of his motivation to perform, maybe due to being guaranteed a ridiculous 2/3 of his VERY generous contract up front. I suggested that he might find that little extra motivation in high profile games against NE and Cincy.......essentially keeping up appearances........and those just so happen to be his only "good" games of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 you're Weak sauce dude A few things to add on McCoy: -Had the lowest yards per touch of ANY NFL player last season with at least 250 combined carries/receptions. -League average per carry production last year (4.2) and below average this year (3.9). -Blamed his declining numbers last year on a sore foot and heavy legs/fatigue he attributed to Chip Kelly's demanding practice schedule. His issues this year aren't really new at all. Personally I think he's lost a step physically and is more susceptible to injury because of his high mileage but perhaps more importantly he has also lost a step in terms of his motivation to perform, maybe due to being guaranteed a ridiculous 2/3 of his VERY generous contract up front. I suggested that he might find that little extra motivation in high profile games against NE and Cincy.......essentially keeping up appearances........and those just so happen to be his only "good" games of the season. Lots of personal speculation here He had a year that was not up to his standards......and had a hamstring injury this year.......that is pretty much it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 No question, I agree. I'm speculating that his window hasn't closed and he's still an elite RB in this league as much as others are speculating the other way. I just think there's actual evidence this season -- albeit brief -- that McCoy is still at that elite level. It's up to McCoy to prove that to fans though on a week to week basis. this is just a bunch of injury related sadness generating bitter fan backlash... a psychologist would have a field day with some of the posters on this board. injuries turn elites into average. is what it is . and Darby and Karlos Williams and John Miller turned from "who?" to "what a great pick" and starter grade players .... gotta take the good with the bad people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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