PolishDave Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why do so many of you think that the Bills' coaching staff is some kind of democracy? Rex gets the big bucks to make those decisions and the guys underneath him know that. According to the fan base and how they react, Rex will take 99% of the blame for being wrong if the QB ends up sucking. The guys underneath Rex agreed to be subordinates when they signed up for the job. They are part of Rex's cabinet, but Rex is the boss when it comes to such decisions. No brainer in my opinion. Rex will make the call and try to win the rest of the team and staff over to his side by explaining why he chose who he chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRex Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The buck stops with Rex so it is his call. He can make the call by demonstrating trust in his OC, DC, and STC such that they earn the right from Rex to be the absolute lead in making big time calls. However, it seems to me almost all HCs (and probably particularly a huge personality like Rex that trust will need to be earned by successful performance. Roman has certainly performed as OC elsewhere as in his recent stint in SF, but SF ain't here and this is his first go round with Rex here so my strong guess is that this is gonna ultimately b Rex's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why do so many of you think that the Bills' coaching staff is some kind of democracy? Rex gets the big bucks to make those decisions and the guys underneath him know that. According to the fan base and how they react, Rex will take 99% of the blame for being wrong if the QB ends up sucking. The guys underneath Rex agreed to be subordinates when they signed up for the job. They are part of Rex's cabinet, but Rex is the boss when it comes to such decisions. No brainer in my opinion. Rex will make the call and try to win the rest of the team and staff over to his side by explaining why he chose who he chose. There's no question Rex is the HC and will ultimately take the credit or blame for all decisions, but to imply he would heavy-handedly overrule the experienced OC he brought in with respect to the QB decision is not realistic. This is very likely to be a joint decision between Rex and Roman, with input from David Lee and possibly Doug Whaley as well. If Lee and Roman tell Rex QB X gives them the best chance to win games, does anyone really think Rex will overrule them if he likes QB Y better? Now, perhaps the conversation will go something like this: Roman: "Rex, we can go three ways with this. If we start QB X my gameplan will be such and such. We can do more of this, but none of that. Here's the upside, and here's the risk. And so on for QB Y and QB Z. Which way do you want to go?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 There's no need for heavy-handedness, distrust, overruling, etc. Ryan tells Roman "I understand that you may feel Cassel is the best guy, but his last 4 teams also thought that and he had horrible seasons, not to mention got injured early. We're trying to build for the future and Cassel ain't it since he'll be gone next year one way or another. Let's go with Taylor (or EJ) and see what we have in him. If we have nothing, we have to draft a QB high next year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 There's no question Rex is the HC and will ultimately take the credit or blame for all decisions, but to imply he would heavy-handedly overrule the experienced OC he brought in with respect to the QB decision is not realistic. This is very likely to be a joint decision between Rex and Roman, with input from David Lee and possibly Doug Whaley as well. If Lee and Roman tell Rex QB X gives them the best chance to win games, does anyone really think Rex will overrule them if he likes QB Y better? Now, perhaps the conversation will go something like this: Roman: "Rex, we can go three ways with this. If we start QB X my gameplan will be such and such. We can do more of this, but none of that. Here's the upside, and here's the risk. And so on for QB Y and QB Z. Which way do you want to go?" Good post! On going dialogue i am sure. Rex will gladly own it. And Rex very likely trusts the guys he has to give him the gorey details without bias. I dont feel any of the dysfunction of the past with this group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 There's no question Rex is the HC and will ultimately take the credit or blame for all decisions, but to imply he would heavy-handedly overrule the experienced OC he brought in with respect to the QB decision is not realistic. This is very likely to be a joint decision between Rex and Roman, with input from David Lee and possibly Doug Whaley as well. If Lee and Roman tell Rex QB X gives them the best chance to win games, does anyone really think Rex will overrule them if he likes QB Y better? Now, perhaps the conversation will go something like this: Roman: "Rex, we can go three ways with this. If we start QB X my gameplan will be such and such. We can do more of this, but none of that. Here's the upside, and here's the risk. And so on for QB Y and QB Z. Which way do you want to go?" This is also a good illustration of how, to the disbelief of some, Roman could favor Cassel over TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Perhaps I'm mistaken (I'm sure you'll all be quick to point out if I am) but wasn't the criticism of Roman's offense in SF last year based on the fact that Roman had tried to turn Kaep into more of a pocket passer? Would that indicate he has a preference in that regard? I dunno, just spitballing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why do so many of you think that the Bills' coaching staff is some kind of democracy? Rex gets the big bucks to make those decisions and the guys underneath him know that. According to the fan base and how they react, Rex will take 99% of the blame for being wrong if the QB ends up sucking. The guys underneath Rex agreed to be subordinates when they signed up for the job. They are part of Rex's cabinet, but Rex is the boss when it comes to such decisions. No brainer in my opinion. Rex will make the call and try to win the rest of the team and staff over to his side by explaining why he chose who he chose. It isn't a democracy---it isn't as if they have a vote and whoever wins starts. And of course it is, officially Rex's decision. But he'd be a fool, and show very bad faith, if his decision wasn't ultimately that recommended by the OC. There's no need for heavy-handedness, distrust, overruling, etc. Ryan tells Roman "I understand that you may feel Cassel is the best guy, but his last 4 teams also thought that and he had horrible seasons, not to mention got injured early. We're trying to build for the future and Cassel ain't it since he'll be gone next year one way or another. Let's go with Taylor (or EJ) and see what we have in him. If we have nothing, we have to draft a QB high next year." What if Rex tells Roman, "I understand you want to start TT (or EJ), but we need to win a few games early to get some momentum this season. We can start to work TT into the lineup by making some packages for him. And, if TT is truly ready, he'll still be ready, and healthy, later in the year. After all, what are the chances Matt lasts the year?" Since you think Rex should have final say, you are fine with that, too. Right? You are simply bringing your preference for QB into a discussion about who should make the decision. It is intellectually dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 What if Rex tells Roman, "I understand you want to start TT (or EJ), but we need to win a few games early to get some momentum this season. We can start to work TT into the lineup by making some packages for him. And, if TT is truly ready, he'll still be ready, and healthy, later in the year. After all, what are the chances Matt lasts the year?" Since you think Rex should have final say, you are fine with that, too. Right? You are simply bringing your preference for QB into a discussion about who should make the decision. It is intellectually dishonest. I haven't heard from anywhere that Roman prefers TT. Whereas I've heard Ryan raving about TT and how he wanted to get him when he was with the Jets, Cole saying Ryan prefers TT, and metz_lives saying Roman prefers Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I haven't heard from anywhere that Roman prefers TT. Whereas I've heard Ryan raving about TT and how he wanted to get him when he was with the Jets, Cole saying Ryan prefers TT, and metz_lives saying Roman prefers Cassel. Aye aye aye. That's the point. We're working of some very vague rumors here. The rumors could well be false and their actual positions different than what we know. This question is about who should make the call. The individual players involved aren't really relevant here. It isn't' as if the Bills have one clear starter or there would be no question. Take the player you like off the table. Who would you trust to pick the starting QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I trust Roman more on all things offense, and any "suspense" will be gone for the Colts when one guy gets rhe first team reps in the week prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Aye aye aye. That's the point. We're working of some very vague rumors here. The rumors could well be false and their actual positions different than what we know. This question is about who should make the call. The individual players involved aren't really relevant here. It isn't' as if the Bills have one clear starter or there would be no question. Take the player you like off the table. Who would you trust to pick the starting QB? I would trust the consensus. And, if there weren't a clear consensus, I think it's more important for Rex to feel confident in the decision than Roman. Even though I trust Roman more, offensively, I feel that it's also important for the chain of command to remain intact, and strong. Roman's the coordinator, but it's Rex's vision. That's my philosophical take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstencel Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Rex's decision with a lot of input though. Rex also has to think about the future more than just next season. Roman is trying to become a Head Coach, next season if possible, so Rex need to make the call in what is best for the team in long run. Think Roman would be more likely to go Meh route thinking short term, or has better grasp of offense, to get him in position for next year, even if one of others may have more long term potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I would trust the consensus. And, if there weren't a clear consensus, I think it's more important for Rex to feel confident in the decision than Roman. Even though I trust Roman more, offensively, I feel that it's also important for the chain of command to remain intact, and strong. Roman's the coordinator, but it's Rex's vision. That's my philosophical take. I agree with your point about consensus. But the chain of command is never an issue here. Rex will be the person who makes the decision. officially. He is, of course, free to make a different decision than he actually prefers. Any leader who won't do that at least once in awhile is probably a crappy leader, IMO. In this case, it might be a good thing for Rex to be uncomfortable with his decision, as his decisions about the offense (and QB in particular) have been fairly regrettable in the past---that is, if the decisions in the past were his preference. Rex's decision with a lot of input though. Rex also has to think about the future more than just next season. Roman is trying to become a Head Coach, next season if possible, so Rex need to make the call in what is best for the team in long run. Think Roman would be more likely to go Meh route thinking short term, or has better grasp of offense, to get him in position for next year, even if one of others may have more long term potential. I think this line of thinking is total BS. But most of all, the Bills have enough talent to do a long way THIS YEAR. This isn't a year you waste "building for the future". This is the future they've been building toward. To think an offense good enough to go deep into the playoffs is bad for the team is ridiculous. To think a "meh"* offense helps Roman get a HC job, is equally ridiculous. * not specifically referring to the player here. I'll make one final point in this thread. If Rex actually overrules Roman's choice of QB (something I don't think is going to happen), hasn't he done the same thing to Roman and the offense that many claim Idzik did to him? If, in this scenario, Roman doesn't get to play the QB he thinks will do the best job for the offense, do we make excuses for him the way some do for Rex's performance with the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I agree with your point about consensus. But the chain of command is never an issue here. Rex will be the person who makes the decision. officially. He is, of course, free to make a different decision than he actually prefers. Any leader who won't do that at least once in awhile is probably a crappy leader, IMO. In this case, it might be a good thing for Rex to be uncomfortable with his decision, as his decisions about the offense (and QB in particular) have been fairly regrettable in the past---that is, if the decisions in the past were his preference. I think the hallmark of a great leader is the ability to trust one's generals, so to speak. I know I'm speaking in vague terms here, but I think it's Roman's job to offer assessments of the various options, and the potential for each. Along with that would be his preference, but if his preference doesn't match up with the type of team Ryan is trying to build, I think it's Roman's obligation to adjust to Rex, not the other way around. If Roman truly believes that one option is going to result in fewer wins, then he should be making a strong case against it. But, if the conversation is about, "this is how we win with this guy, and this is how we win with the other guy..." then that is how Rex will build consensus. I really like eball's hypothetical conversation in this regard, and the more I think about it (and, I am well aware that I am just pondering the ramifications of a thin rumor), the more I could understand how Roman would prefer Cassel over TT. By most accounts, Cassel reads the field better. That is no small thing, and I could see how that would give Roman more options in running, and controlling his offense. And, I could see how that would not necessarily mesh with what Rex is trying to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Honestly, is the risk as stated by some, really that great by not starting Cassel! If you believe he is mistake free and we cannot lose - I don't see it. Potential is never reached if it is not attempted. Risk cannot be properly assessed without consideration of the reward. IMO Edited August 26, 2015 by The Thurmanator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Those last two sentences need some motivational imagery with them Honestly, is the risk as stated by some, really that great by not starting Cassel!If you believe he is mistake free and we cannot lose - I don't see it.Potential is never reached if it is not attempted.Risk cannot be properly assessed without consideration of the reward.IMO There. Fixed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Those last two sentences need some motivational imagery with them There. Fixed it! Excellent. I couldn't stop laughing after Thurmanator's post. I get the feeling he just came from a management consultant or motivational speaker. I used to have so much fun screwing with those guys. "Empty slogans R us!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Those last two sentences need some motivational imagery with them There. Fixed it! LOL! thats awesome. If Cassel starts I hope the risk of out patterns being jumped by DBs is compensated for by all the Field generalship he provides. Good fun fellas! Edited August 26, 2015 by The Thurmanator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Those last two sentences need some motivational imagery with them There. Fixed it! Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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