DC Tom Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 BS, I haven't moved the debate anywhere. The debate started above -- that's all I've been saying. It's all I'm still saying. Except... That's what the show is, that's how it's defined. If it were a news program, the industry would recognize it as such. The industry does not. Because it's a late night talk show. Like Letterman, Leno, Conan, and soon Colbert... who came from... you guessed it, The Daily Show. [...] It's not a news program...except that it's the prime source of news for an audience that treats it as a news program. Does that make it a news program or not? [...] I'd argue any reasonable person who's watching a late night talk show on Comedy Central knows they are not watching the news. So which criteria are you going to use? The "industry definition" standard, or the "reasonable person" standard? And yes, while you can have both...you can't argue one against the other, which is what you're actually doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I fully admit that he's biased. He's more than biased. He's a WH messenger who helps advance WH policies. You have to wonder what he got in exchange, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Because I don't have to. Why would I have to do that? I'm not arguing Stewart doesn't lean left. I'm arguing he's up front about what his program is while Fox hides their opinion under the guise of news. Stewart puts his opinion into his program which skewers the news. There's a giant different between the two in terms of being duplicitous. Which is where this discussion began: stupidly comparing Fox News to The Daily Show as if they were the same. They are not the same. One is a news network the other is a comedy program on a comedy network. Fox has plenty of fair news but like all media they pick and choose what they report. Frankly if you're not getting news from a few outlets, you miss a lot and Fox at times is the only TV outlet that covers many stories as the otherwise leftist TV media often ignores or buries what doesn't fit their position. Fox runs a lot of opinion programming which certainly has a right slant but they give air time to guests with opposing views. Unfortunately those guests often don't have a favorable set of facts to work with so they get hammered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Biased and had a platform to promote his biases. Still in agreement. Except... [...] So which criteria are you going to use? The "industry definition" standard, or the "reasonable person" standard? And yes, while you can have both...you can't argue one against the other, which is what you're actually doing. I'm failing to see where I'm arguing one against the other. One response was to your question, the other was to Chef's. Jon Stewart is a late night talk host. Same as Kimmel, Conan, Letterman, Leno, Fallon et al. His program is defined by the entertainment industry as a late night talk show like those other programs, because that's what it is. Reasonable people know this when they're watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Still in agreement. That's odd, because you said He's not pretending to be a comedian, he IS a comedian with a show on COMEDY CENTRAL. He's never been a journalist and has never pretended to be anything more than a comedian. So which is it? He's just a comedian or is he a comedian with an agenda? He's more than biased. He's a WH messenger who helps advance WH policies. You have to wonder what he got in exchange, don't you? Poppycock!!!!. He's just a comedian and he's never pretended to be anything else! Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 He's more than biased. He's a WH messenger who helps advance WH policies. You have to wonder what he got in exchange, don't you? Again, per the article, that certainly seems to be the case. In terms of kickback, he got the president on his show for one. He doesn't really need more than that in terms of a quid pro quo. Fox has plenty of fair news but like all media they pick and choose what they report. Frankly if you're not getting news from a few outlets, you miss a lot and Fox at times is the only TV outlet that covers many stories as the otherwise leftist TV media often ignores or buries what doesn't fit their position. Fox runs a lot of opinion programming which certainly has a right slant but they give air time to guests with opposing views. Unfortunately those guests often don't have a favorable set of facts to work with so they get hammered. Certainly. That's odd, because you said So which is it? He's just a comedian or is he a comedian with an agenda? Poppycock!!!!. He's just a comedian and he's never pretended to be anything else! Sheesh! He's still just a comedian, dude. I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp about that. Just because he has access, or a platform, doesn't suddenly elevate him to a different profession, does it? What else is he if he's not just a comedian? Wait, is he Batman? Is that what you are trying to tell me? Is he Hulk? Nah, too short. Seriously, what else is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Why are you hung up on the Comedian forms on his shingle? The point is that he's using his platform to promote an agenda. Who cares what he says his day job is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Why are you hung up on the Comedian forms on his shingle? The point is that he's using his platform to promote an agenda. Who cares what he says his day job is? Because when you compare him to Fox News it becomes paramount. Which is where this whole thing started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 He's still just a comedian, dude. I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp about that. Just because he has access, or a platform, doesn't suddenly elevate him to a different profession, does it? What else is he if he's not just a comedian? Wait, is he Batman? Is that what you are trying to tell me? Is he Hulk? Nah, too short. Seriously, what else is he? I never said he wasn't a comedian. As a matter of fact, I even said he's a damn good one at that. What I said is that he's not JUST a comedian and the articles from both the NY Times and Politico back that up (not that we needed to read them anyway), and what I did was draw parallels to Fox news. Of course they aren't perfect parallels, rarely there ever are. But I specifically said that they are both similar in the fact that they both promote and advocate causes they support and they both do things to support the party they tend to agree with. Of course one does it with comedy, the other does it with opinion hosts who bash their opponents. End result, is pretty damn similar. They both reinforce the opinions that their viewers already had about the political party they disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I never said he wasn't a comedian. As a matter of fact, I even said he's a damn good one at that. What I said is that he's not JUST a comedian and the articles from both the NY Times and Politico back that up (not that we needed to read them anyway), and what I did was draw parallels to Fox news. Of course they aren't perfect parallels, rarely there ever are. But I specifically said that they are both similar in the fact that they both promote and advocate causes they support and they both do things to support the party they tend to agree with. Of course one does it with comedy, the other does it with opinion hosts who bash their opponents. End result, is pretty damn similar. They both reinforce the opinions that their viewers already had about the political party they disagree with. Stewart has no responsibility to be impartial. None. That's not his job. Fox, though, does have a responsibility as a legitimate news network to be impartial. Yes, I agree with you entirely they both preach to a choir, but only one does so disingenuously by pretending to be news. Stewart preaches openly on his nightly talk show on a comedy channel. That's a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Stewart has no responsibility to be impartial. None. That's not his job. Fox, though, does have a responsibility as a legitimate news network to be impartial. Yes, I agree with you entirely they both preach to a choir, but only one does so disingenuously by pretending to be news. Stewart preaches openly on his nightly talk show on a comedy channel. That's a big difference. That's not the argument I made. I didn't just generalize by saying "Hey Fox and the Daily show are the same", if I had stated that, then maybe you'd have something to work with. But, that's not what I said. John Stewart is funny as hell but make no mistake, he is for Liberals as what Fox is for Republicans, a cheerleader for the party and causes he supports. Remember I said, words matter. I said he is FOR liberals as what Fox is FOR Republicans, a cheerleader for the party and the causes he supports. I know you have a decent grasp of the English language, if you read those words for what they are, when someone says A is FOR B as X is FOR Y and then goes on to list a couple examples of it, that means that the person is drawing a parallel. And the parallel that was made was at the end of the sentence. And it's clear that what I said at the end of the sentence was factually correct. Which means that the first portion of it was correct as well in regards to that there are parallels between the two. You interpreted what I said into something completely different. You were trying to infer that I was stating that the two are one in the same. Nope. Not what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 That's not the argument I made. I didn't just generalize by saying "Hey Fox and the Daily show are the same", if I had stated that, then maybe you'd have something to work with. But, that's not what I said. Remember I said, words matter. I said he is FOR liberals as what Fox is FOR Republicans, a cheerleader for the party and the causes he supports. I know you have a decent grasp of the English language, if you read those words for what they are, when someone says A is FOR B as X is FOR Y and then goes on to list a couple examples of it, that means that the person is drawing a parallel. And the parallel that was made was at the end of the sentence. And it's clear that what I said at the end of the sentence was factually correct. Which means that the first portion of it was correct as well in regards to that there are parallels between the two. You interpreted what I said into something completely different. You were trying to infer that I was stating that the two are one in the same. Nope. Not what I said. Fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Stewart has no responsibility to be impartial. None. That's not his job. Fox, though, does have a responsibility as a legitimate news network to be impartial. Yes, I agree with you entirely they both preach to a choir, but only one does so disingenuously by pretending to be news. Stewart preaches openly on his nightly talk show on a comedy channel. That's a big difference. That's crap. Fox delivers plenty of accurate news and thankfully a lot of it that the other outlets ignore. They also deliver opinion. Too many viewers apparently don't know when they're listening to news as opposed to an opinion. Where we might agree is that more outlets should produce more newsworthy news and not consider their slant so much when deciding what to report or not report. Edited July 28, 2015 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Except Fox pretends to be a news channel while Stewart unabashedly remains a comedian hosting a comedy program. Except Fox actually reports and discusses news stories, albeit from a conservative POV, while Stewart presents satire as reality. Half his audience thinks the bull **** he puts up is real, and that's by design. It's only when he's exposed that he falls back on the fake news cop out, then goes right back to peddling his misinformation campaign. Stewart has no responsibility to be impartial. None. That's not his job. Fox, though, does have a responsibility as a legitimate news network to be impartial. Yes, I agree with you entirely they both preach to a choir, but only one does so disingenuously by pretending to be news. Stewart preaches openly on his nightly talk show on a comedy channel. That's a big difference. It's not that he's partial; it's that he's intentionally deceptive. I remember a story where some politician was asking rhetorically if someone could get impregnated by oral sex (or something along those lines) clearly doing a reductio ad absurdum, and Stewart runs with it like the guy genuinely didn't know. That kind of dishonest ****'s the hallmark of his whole career. I can handle bias, and I can certainly tolerate difference of opinion. What I can't stand is a lying sack of **** who can't support his position with the truth so he lies to make you believe his ideology. He probably figured he's right anyway and thus the ends justify the means because he used his lies to help you see "the truth." Edited July 29, 2015 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The one important thing here that a few have touched on but some have glossed over is the fact that Fox has hard news programs along with political talk shows. Hannity has nothing to do with news. He's purely a political commentator and those of you who lump him and others in with the news programs are doing a disservice to the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So the majority opinion here is that Fox News = Comedy Channel? I only ask because the majority of the arguments thrown at Greggy don't make sense if that isn't true... I'm just sayin... LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So the majority opinion here is that Fox News = Comedy Channel? I only ask because the majority of the arguments thrown at Greggy don't make sense if that isn't true... I'm just sayin... LOL! I guess this proves one thing. That you are a dipshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So the majority opinion here is that Fox News = Comedy Channel? I only ask because the majority of the arguments thrown at Greggy don't make sense if that isn't true... I'm just sayin... LOL! Thanks for the annual drive by affirmation that you're still an idiot. No one is equating Fox News to Comedy Central. The discussion is about one show on Comedy Central, not the network. Tosh 2.0 also discusses current news events on his show on Comedy Central. Yet, he's not called into private meetings at the White House to discuss policy & strategy. I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thanks for the annual drive by affirmation that you're still an idiot. No one is equating Fox News to Comedy Central. The discussion is about one show on Comedy Central, not the network. Tosh 2.0 also discusses current news events on his show on Comedy Central. Yet, he's not called into private meetings at the White House to discuss policy & strategy. I wonder why? John Stewart has been called in for private meetings with Barry at the WH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I guess this proves one thing. That you are a dipshit. Yeah, I'm a Dipshit. I'm the (*^*&%^$^#that owns you. Thanks for the annual drive by affirmation that you're still an idiot. No one is equating Fox News to Comedy Central. The discussion is about one show on Comedy Central, not the network. Tosh 2.0 also discusses current news events on his show on Comedy Central. Yet, he's not called into private meetings at the White House to discuss policy & strategy. I wonder why? The majority of the arguments being thrown around seem to boil down to the idea that John Stewart is the left equivalent to all the talking heads (combined) who regularly appear on Fox News Opinion shows. That is only possible if the two networks (one a News network and the other a Comedy network) are functionally equal. So the real question is; if the Daily Show is a political opinion outlet for the left does that make the Fox News opinion shows into comedy programing for the right? Edited July 30, 2015 by RI Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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