Grade Whaley's Job Performance

[QB Bills]

Huh? They were taken in the same draft... who is saying that?

 

But even then, I'm ok with going back further to see Whaley's impact on the roster. He's been in the trenches so to speak for a while.

I've read it here. Not saying you are saying that. My whole point is that it's a ridiculous comment.

 

Again, for those who think Whaley is worlds better than Nix, please state when you think it is he actually took over the primary responsibilities. And the players brought in after that point.

 

Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley.

[Dorkington]

I've read it here. Not saying you are saying that. My whole point is that it's a ridiculous comment.

 

Again, for those who think Whaley is worlds better than Nix, please state when you think it is he actually took over the primary responsibilities. And the players brought in after that point.

 

Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley.

Not sure why it needs to be mutually exclusive. The way I see it, Nix did some good things, laid a foundation and mentored Whaley a bit, Whaley came in and built on that.

[T master]

I voted in the B column but think it is a A with the players he has brought in .

 

But then i think about next year & how they will be able to keep the players under contract that will need new

contracts !!

 

Thats when it dropped to a B ...

Edited April 9, 2015 by T master

[MarkAF43]

I gave him a C, it would've been a B but a couple papers were turned in late sooooo

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley.

 

Incorrect.

[PromoTheRobot]

Yes, 21 TD's as a rookie on the Raiders is a bust season. As usual, you're off the mark because they aren't Bills.

As usual you are cherry-picking your stats. So I guess going 3-13 as a starter makes him a stud? Or how about his 58.1 completion percentage? Ranks right around 19th, in the same ballpark as franchise QB Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Let's compare Carr to a certified dud: EJ Manuel. Rookie QBR: EJ-77.7 Carr-76.6. Hmmm, I see your point here. Judging by his rookie stats, Carr will have a bust in Canton one day!

 

Of course I'm being sarcastic. Carr is a nice QB. Had a decent rookie season. But nothing about him guarantees he's a franchise QB yet, or Bridgewater for that matter. So for you to raise these two as examples of whiffs by Whaley is simply insane. Just something conjured up in your head to bolster your flimsy arguments.

Edited April 9, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The poll has it right... He gets a A.

 

The bills roster was lean on talent when he took over in 2013, and it was total garbage prior to his arrival in 2010.

 

In his tenure he completely overhaul linebacker and we corps, kept a very talented secondary together, extended key building block players.

 

Yeah no qb, but it's not for lack of attempted solutions.

 

Because the institution of football clearly lacks a good metric to identify qb potential, he deserves a few more seasons worth of a pass for not having a solution yet there.

 

I am confident that will be solved too, if it isn't already.

[FireChan]

As usual you are cherry-picking your stats. So I guess going 3-13 as a starter makes him a stud? Or how about his 58.1 completion percentage? Ranks right around 19th, in the same ballpark as franchise QB Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Let's compare Carr to a certified dud: EJ Manuel. Rookie QBR: EJ-77.7 Carr-76.6. Hmmm, I see your point here. Judging by his rookie stats, Carr will have a bust in Canton one day!

 

Of course I'm being sarcastic. Carr is a nice QB. Had a decent rookie season. But nothing about him guarantees he's a franchise QB yet, or Bridgewater for that matter. So for you to raise these two as examples of whiffs by Whaley is simply insane. Just something conjured up in your head to bolster your flimsy arguments.

Would any GM trade Bridgewater/Carr for Cassell/EJ? Nah. They're upgrades. They don't need to be Hall of Famers for you to be incorrect.

 

Remember when you used to say, "Man, I really hope the fans don't run out a QB who threw for 24 TD's and regret it later?" I do. And yet, here's a rookie QB who throws 21 TD's on the Raiders and now he's nothing compared the talent Whaley has unearthed. I cherry-picked the same cherry you used to. Like I said, off the mark because they aren't Bills.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan

[PromoTheRobot]

Would any GM trade Bridgewater/Carr for Cassell/EJ? Nah. They're upgrades. They don't need to be Hall of Famers for you to be incorrect.

 

Remember when you used to say, "Man, I really hope the fans don't run out a QB who threw for 24 TD's and regret it later?" I do. And yet, here's a rookie QB who throws 21 TD's on the Raiders and now he's nothing compared the talent Whaley has unearthed. I cherry-picked the same cherry you used to. Like I said, off the mark because they aren't Bills.

The yardstick of what's expected from Bills players is always way longer than it is for other team's players. And what is considered good changes from day to day. I think it's mainly because we follow every detail on our guys while only seeing highlights of other players.

Edited April 9, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Dr. Fong]

In my book you don't get an A until you win a Super Bowl, so I voted B.

[DrDawkinstein]

If I were to grade him strictly based on player evaluation, B+. Maybe even an A-

 

But an overall rating? Probably a C. He's not even in the same room as the elite GM's in the league (i.e. Newsome)

 

In 2002, Newsome's first year, the Ravens started Jeff Blake and Chris Redman at QB. The elite Newsome "fixed" that the next year (2003) by drafting Kyle Boller. Both Boller and Anthony Wright started some games that year, and would do the same in 2005. They would again split time between Boller, Wright, and McNair in 2007. They finally drafted Joe Flacco in 2008, and we all know it took Flacco at least a few years to catch on.

 

So that was 5 years of poorly addressing the QB situation, and a total of about 9 years into his GM tenure before they saw good QB play.

 

But Newsome was great at building Defenses and RBs and re-signing his own guys, so that got him a lot of cred. Gee, who does that sound like?

Edited April 9, 2015 by DrDareustein

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I've read it here. Not saying you are saying that. My whole point is that it's a ridiculous comment.

 

Again, for those who think Whaley is worlds better than Nix, please state when you think it is he actually took over the primary responsibilities. And the players brought in after that point.

 

Yes, this is a talented roster. But the majority of the credit for that goes to Nix, not Whaley.

Hughes, Preston brown, watkins, Cassell, McCoy, Harvin, Graham... Are definitely his.

 

I belive, based on nix stepping down immediately after the draft, I think he gets credit/blame for EJ, woods, kiko, Goodwin, duke, Gragg too.

 

I've said it before thought, the bill started drafting differently and much better right before modrak left, after the turd that was 2010. I suspect they kept him around but used whaleys "list" for 2011.

[FireChan]

The yardstick of what's expected from Bills players is always way longer than it is for other team's players. And what is considered good changes from day to day. I think it's mainly because we follow every detail on our guys while only seeing highlights of other players.

Always? You're telling me that fans don't cite bad W-L records of other guys, then spin the W-L records of ours with, "our defense blew it?" Or, when a vet QB on our team throws for 3000 yards and 24 TD's, we shouldn't run him out of town, but when a rookie throws for 3000 yards and 21 TD's on a different team, he's not good enough? You're the other side of the same coin.

 

Both my points still stand. The QB's that were available to draft in 2014 are worth substantially more than the QB's on our roster. Period. That doesn't mean I'm giving Whaley an F, but to act as though there hasn't been a single available QB better than EJ/Cassel is incorrect.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan

[Beef Jerky]

In 2002, Newsome's first year, the Ravens started Jeff Blake and Chris Redman at QB. The elite Newsome "fixed" that the next year (2003) by drafting Kyle Boller. Both Boller and Anthony Wright started some games that year, and would do the same in 2005. They would again split time between Boller, Wright, and McNair in 2007. They finally drafted Joe Flacco in 2008, and we all know it took Flacco at least a few years to catch on.

 

So that was 5 years of poorly addressing the QB situation, and a total of about 9 years into his GM tenure before they saw good QB play.

 

But Newsome was great at building Defenses and RBs and re-signing his own guys, so that got him a lot of cred. Gee, who does that sound like?

Maybe one day Whaley can get to that point and find a QB... Right now he is a C. Nothing wrong with a C. Edited April 9, 2015 by Beef Jerky

[DrDawkinstein]

Maybe one day Whaley can get to that point and find a QB... Right now he is a C.

 

If that's how you see it, fine. But the point is, so was the "elite" Newsome until 9 years into his career.

[Beef Jerky]

If that's how you see it, fine. But the point is, so was the "elite" Newsome until 9 years into his career.

Yea and I wouldn't have given him an A either back then... But he has earned it now.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

2 D's and F's?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

If that's how you see it, fine. But the point is, so was the "elite" Newsome until 9 years into his career.

You hit the nail on the head. DW turned a losing roster into a winning roster in 2 years as GM. If it were 10 years, then it's not quite an accomplishment.

 

Many people have a tough time seeing time as a dimension. It's a very common limitation I see in people.

 

Its an irrationality that live somewhere between grading a kindergartner and a 10th grader on the same scale, and expecting 9 mothers to produce a baby in on month.

[FireChan]

You hit the nail on the head. DW turned a losing roster into a winning roster in 2 years as GM. If it were 10 years, then it's not quite an accomplishment.

 

Many people have a tough time seeing time as a dimension. It's a very common limitation I see in people.

 

Its an irrationality that live somewhere between grading a kindergartner and a 10th grader on the same scale, and expecting 9 mothers to produce a baby in on month.

How? A lot of our superstars are Nix grabs. Almost all of them, actually.

[Beef Jerky]

You hit the nail on the head. DW turned a losing roster into a winning roster in 2 years as GM. If it were 10 years, then it's not quite an accomplishment.

Many people have a tough time seeing time as a dimension. It's a very common limitation I see in people.

Its an irrationality that live somewhere between grading a kindergartner and a 10th grader on the same scale, and expecting 9 mothers to produce a baby in on month.

"Common limitation I see in people"

 

I see you don't understand most of those players are Nix guys.

 

"if at first you don't succeed, maybe failure is your style"

Edited April 9, 2015 by Beef Jerky

[DrDawkinstein]

"Common limitation I see in people"

 

I see you don't understand most of those players are Nix guys.

 

"if at first you don't succeed, maybe failure is your style"

 

"Doug Whaley was named Assistant General Manager/Director of Pro Personnel of the Buffalo Bills on February 10, 2010. Whaley oversees the team’s Pro Personnel department and assisted General Manager Buddy Nix in all football-related administrative duties and in the college talent evaluation process until Nix stepped down from the General Manager position on May 13, 2013. Whaley became Buffalo's GM three days later"

 

 

Im not a person that finds much reason to separate the two into different eras. While Nix gets ultimate responsibility due to his title, Whaley had more than just a little influence in starting to turn the team around.

 

Im not even factoring that into my grade or discussion here, but since you brought it up...

 

Nothing is ever black and white (ok, maybe Whaley and Nix ARE black and white, but I didnt mean it like that ). These personnel decisions are one big grey mix of everyone's input. From title alone, Whaley would have had the biggest influence on Nix's decisions. I give him some credit (and some blame), not all of it, but enough to not be naive about his role.

How? A lot of our superstars are Nix grabs. Almost all of them, actually.

 

See above.

Edited April 9, 2015 by DrDareustein

[FireChan]

 

"Doug Whaley was named Assistant General Manager/Director of Pro Personnel of the Buffalo Bills on February 10, 2010. Whaley oversees the team’s Pro Personnel department and assisted General Manager Buddy Nix in all football-related administrative duties and in the college talent evaluation process until Nix stepped down from the General Manager position on May 13, 2013. Whaley became Buffalo's GM three days later"

 

 

Im not a person that finds much reason to separate the two into different eras. While Nix gets ultimate responsibility due to his title, Whaley had more than just a little influence in starting to turn the team around.

 

Im not even factoring that into my grade or discussion here, but since you brought it up...

 

Nothing is ever black and white (ok, maybe Whaley and Nix ARE black and white, but I didnt mean it like that ). These personnel decisions are one big grey mix of everyone's input. From title alone, Whaley would have had the biggest influence on Nix's decisions. I give him some credit (and some blame), not all of it, but enough to not be naive about his role.

 

See above.

Nix was also hired in starting in 2010 (well, technically December 31st 2009).

 

As far as I'm concerned, we're grading Whaley's job as GM, not his old position as one of the team. There's no way to fairly grade his contribution. He may have hated a pick we made and it turned out great. Or the converse. We don't know. Best way to do it is the standing GM gets all the credit and blame unless something is said otherwise.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan

[Dorkington]

Alright, since people are getting all confused about when Whaley had influence, lets just go with the obvious and give him credit/blame for everything since 2010. It's not like Whaley is the only person making decisions as GM, and it's not like he was completely ignored before becoming GM.

[Gugny]

Alright, since people are getting all confused about when Whaley had influence, lets just go with the obvious and give him credit/blame for everything since 2010. It's not like Whaley is the only person making decisions as GM, and it's not like he was completely ignored before becoming GM.

Yup. Might as well end the thread, then fire Whaley. Phew. Glad we collectively solved the "problem."

[PromoTheRobot]

Always? You're telling me that fans don't cite bad W-L records of other guys, then spin the W-L records of ours with, "our defense blew it?" Or, when a vet QB on our team throws for 3000 yards and 24 TD's, we shouldn't run him out of town, but when a rookie throws for 3000 yards and 21 TD's on a different team, he's not good enough? You're the other side of the same coin.

 

Both my points still stand. The QB's that were available to draft in 2014 are worth substantially more than the QB's on our roster. Period. That doesn't mean I'm giving Whaley an F, but to act as though there hasn't been a single available QB better than EJ/Cassel is incorrect.

Of course they are, because you say so.

[FireChan]

Alright, since people are getting all confused about when Whaley had influence, lets just go with the obvious and give him credit/blame for everything since 2010. It's not like Whaley is the only person making decisions as GM, and it's not like he was completely ignored before becoming GM.

The GM is the only person making the decisions.

 

We don't know how Whaley felt about drafting Aaron Willaims. We know how he felt about drafting Woods.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan

[Gugny]

The GM is the only person making the decisions.

 

We don't know how Whaley felt about drafting Aaron Willaims. We know how he felt about drafting Woods.

So how can any GM in football be graded, then?

[FireChan]

So how can any GM in football be graded, then?

By the players they actually pull the trigger on.

[Gugny]

By the players they actually pull the trigger on.

Oh, so you're saying that the GM - even though he's taking direction from a team of scouts, etc. - is given credit (good or bad) for every player drafted during his tenure as GM?

[FireChan]

Oh, so you're saying that the GM - even though he's taking direction from a team of scouts, etc. - is given credit (good or bad) for every player drafted during his tenure as GM?

Yes. That comes with the paycheck and title. He can hire and fire every scout he wants, but it's happening under his watch. Bosses are responsible for their employees. GM's have final say, that's why the buck stops with them.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FireChan

[PromoTheRobot]

Yes. That comes with the paycheck and title. He can hire and fire every scout he wants, but it's happening under his watch. Bosses are responsible for their employees.

That's a fair statement. The buck stops at Whaley's desk, right? Of course it's hard to know who approved who during the Nix/Whaley transition.

[Gugny]

That's a fair statement. The buck stops at Whaley's desk, right? Of course it's hard to know who approved who during the Nix/Whaley transition.

And I think that's where the impasse is; many people think Whaley made a lot of the calls, if not all of them, and that Nix was just a figurehead. Some don't believe that.

 

So if we're left with judging him by all transactions made during his tenure as GM .... I'm still giving him an A.

[QB Bills]

That's a fair statement. The buck stops at Whaley's desk, right? Of course it's hard to know who approved who during the Nix/Whaley transition.

No it's not. According to some, anything good that has happened is because of Whaley, and anything bad that happened is because of Nix.

And I think that's where the impasse is; many people think Whaley made a lot of the calls, if not all of them, and that Nix was just a figurehead. Some don't believe that.

 

So if we're left with judging him by all transactions made during his tenure as GM .... I'm still giving him an A.

Then you have low standards.

[Beef Jerky]

I give the guy a C and people act like I put a Billboard up wanting him out... He got a C b.c this team hasn't been to the playoffs still with the talent he added, and he hasn't found this team a reasonable QB yet.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Beef Jerky

[Gugny]

No it's not. According to some, anything good that has happened is because of Whaley, and anything bad that happened is because of Nix.

Then you have low standards.

Odd, seeing how Buffalo has what most are calling a top 3 D, if not the best in the league, as well as the most improved offense in the league.

 

But yeah ... it's just my opinion.

[FireChan]

Odd, seeing how Buffalo has what most are calling a top 3 D, if not the best in the league, as well as the most improved offense in the league.

 

But yeah ... it's just my opinion.

Counting chickens. And we're back to, "which defensive players are the best on our team," and they're all Nix guys.

And I think that's where the impasse is; many people think Whaley made a lot of the calls, if not all of them, and that Nix was just a figurehead. Some don't believe that.

 

So if we're left with judging him by all transactions made during his tenure as GM .... I'm still giving him an A.

Whaley took over for 2013 and beyond.

[QB Bills]

Odd, seeing how Buffalo has what most are calling a top 3 D, if not the best in the league, as well as the most improved offense in the league.

 

But yeah ... it's just my opinion.

It most definitely is. And an uninformed one at that. This defense is built predominantly by Nix who added Mario, Dareus, Gilmore, AW and Bradham. Should also have been Kiko if not for the trade. Kyle and Leo are holdovers from Levy. Whaley has added Hughes and Brown, along with placeholders at the third LB position and free safety.

 

On the offense, there are only two competent linemen (Glenn and Wood) and neither is from Whaley. They paid an arm and a leg for a star receiver with no QB to get him the ball. Woods was a Nix guy. Fred was a Levy guy. The rest of the offense sucked. Including all three of the linemen Whaley drafted last year.

 

As for the offense being "the most improved in the league", we'll have to see that once the season starts. It can be argued that they overpaid for all three of their big additions in Clay, McCoy and Harvin. Their biggest two issues on the team were QB and oline, and Cassell and Incognito are not going to fix that.

 

He gets an A for spending a lot of fracking money like a teenager with Daddy's credit card and possibly hurting our cap situation a few years down the road. But as for results, he's a C- to D+ at best.

[Gugny]

It most definitely is. And an uninformed one at that. This defense is built predominantly by Nix who added Mario, Dareus, Gilmore, AW and Bradham. Should also have been Kiko if not for the trade. Kyle and Leo are holdovers from Levy. Whaley has added Hughes and Brown, along with placeholders at the third LB position and free safety.

 

On the offense, there are only two competent linemen (Glenn and Wood) and neither is from Whaley. They paid an arm and a leg for a star receiver with no QB to get him the ball. Woods was a Nix guy. Fred was a Levy guy. The rest of the offense sucked. Including all three of the linemen Whaley drafted last year.

 

As for the offense being "the most improved in the league", we'll have to see that once the season starts. It can be argued that they overpaid for all three of their big additions in Clay, McCoy and Harvin. Their biggest two issues on the team were QB and oline, and Cassell and Incognito are not going to fix that.

 

He gets an A for spending a lot of fracking money like a teenager with Daddy's credit card and possibly hurting our cap situation a few years down the road. But as for results, he's a C- to D+ at best.

And which QB, pray tell, would you have preferred Whaley pursue?

 

Knocking him for the Watkins pick is silly.

 

Woods was his pick. As was Alonso - who was damaged goods (actually damaged kind of goods) - but Whaley still managed to trade for a major upgrade at RB. You also left out P. Brown, Meeks and Duke Williams.

[FireChan]

And which QB, pray tell, would you have preferred Whaley pursue?

 

Knocking him for the Watkins pick is silly.

 

Woods was his pick. As was Alonso - who was damaged goods (actually damaged kind of goods) - but Whaley still managed to trade for a major upgrade at RB. You also left out P. Brown, Meeks and Duke Williams.

Meeks has like one career tackle, Gug. Brown is good. Duke had been rotational. He did find Robey though. And get Graham.

 

Nix deserves major props for the comerstones of this D, IMO. Mario/Dareus/Bradham/Gilmore/Searcy/AW is no joke.

[thebandit27]

Reading some of these responses about how he deserves an A or nothing less than a B is mind-boggling.

 

Perhaps a better question would be, who on this roster do you give Whaley credit for adding?

Giving him an F is a bit much. He's done some good things. And finding a QB is predominantly circumstance and/or luck.

 

But I guess it all depends on when you think he took over from Buddy. The funny thing is, people like to give him credit for Kiko and Robert Woods but blame Nix for EJ.

 

Depends...are you assigning the 2013 draft and FA season to Nix or Whaley? If we want to start since Whaley took over as GM in May of 2013, then he gets credit for:

 

Bryce Brown

Sammy Watkins

Percy Harvin

LeSean McCoy

Charles Clay

Richie Incgonito

Seantrell Henderson

Preston Brown

Corey Graham

 

Plus credit for re-signing Jerry Hughes, extending Fred Jackson and Kyle Williams, and hiring Rex Ryan.

 

Nix would then get credit for EJ, Eric Wood, Robert Woods, Cordy Glenn, Mario, Dareus, Bradham, Gilmore, Robey, and Aaron Williams.

 

Now, if we're giving Whaley credit for the 2013 draft, after which Nix retired, then EJ and Woods move onto that list as well. Plus, I think it's readily apparent that the Jerry Hughes trade was all Whaley, given that Nix was replaced less than a week later.

 

I'd say that's an awfully good job.

Edited April 9, 2015 by thebandit27