keepthefaith Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Was in a bowling league years ago for fun. Not really a big bowler. Our team finished the season in last place. We were good at drinking beer though. We all got a plastic horses ass trophy. Pretty funny. I still have it somewhere. So the trophy is important because it brings you back to another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Was in a bowling league years ago for fun. Not really a big bowler. Our team finished the season in last place. We were good at drinking beer though. We all got a plastic horses ass trophy. Pretty funny. I still have it somewhere. So the trophy is important because it brings you back to another time. You should sue the league for harming your self of steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Perhaps a middle ground for "everyone gets a trophy" and "kids need to learn about winning and losing" is: every kid that actually participates gets a trophy. Meaning, if you make all the games and the practices, or have been excused by the coach for good reason, then and only then do you get a trophy. The thought being: if you make a commitment to your team, then keeping that commitment, and working hard at it, is what we should be honoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Perhaps a middle ground for "everyone gets a trophy" and "kids need to learn about winning and losing" is: every kid that actually participates gets a trophy. Meaning, if you make all the games and the practices, or have been excused by the coach for good reason, then and only then do you get a trophy. The thought being: if you make a commitment to your team, then keeping that commitment, and working hard at it, is what we should be honoring. Sorta like a "losers point", eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Sorta like a "losers point", eh? Just the opposite, actually. By definition, you can't be a loser if you are following through on the commitments you have made to yourself and your team, by striving to do your best every day. Balls and strikes, hits and strikeouts, will come no matter what. They mean nothing, because they have nothing to do with the commitments you've made and the effort you put in to meet them, each day. At one point in my life, due to a confluence of events, I ended up on unemployment for 2 months exactly, and days later was cajoled into coaching 13-15 year olds in baseball. I had 11 kids on the team, nine with single mothers. Yikes. So, I immediately created some player rules as well as parent rules. Mostly tradeoffs like "We will practice every day from 4-7, which helps you, but, every player will have a clean uniform and properly fitting shoes for every game, and you will attend every game, or find a sub, which helps me." Or, "Baseball is a privlege, and I won't tolerate bad behavior or bad effort here, at home, or at school. Say the word and your kid plays the minimum, even if we have to field 8." No kid wanted to be the reason we fielded only 8, so, I only had to sit one kid, one time. We didn't win because we had the best players. Not even close. We had one kid, who got his first hit the whole year...in a playoff game...with the bases loaded...driving in the tying and winning runs. I'm more proud of that than of some of the work I've done, because both the player and I refused to quit. All season we worked and worked and finally it paid off. We won because I hammered the value of working hard to get better into them. Well, that, and I'm a good hitting coach(from my dad), and more importantly, my pitcher friend from high school showed up at the bar out of nowhere, volunteered to help out, and turned 6 of our kids into starting pitchers...in a week. Yeah. 6 kids with at least 2 pitches they could throw for strikes if not 3. The new problem became who should start/get innings. They started arguing over it, not for personal glory, but because each truly believed they had the best chance to help the team. None of this was possible without them busting their asses to get better every day, and seeing results, which gave them confidence, and now they demanded the ball. We started using all 6 in 7 innings, and they still bitched about not being the guy who got "the start"(2 innings). Nice problem to have, especially since my buddy had all but one of his pitchers available for every game. After a week of that, I uh, delegated all pitching decisions to my buddy. On that team, every kid deserved a trophy, because they worked for it. It just so happens they got one: the league championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Just the opposite, actually. By definition, you can't be a loser if you are following through on the commitments you have made to yourself and your team, by striving to do your best every day. Balls and strikes, hits and strikeouts, will come no matter what. They mean nothing, because they have nothing to do with the commitments you've made and the effort you put in to meet them, each day. At one point in my life, due to a confluence of events, I ended up on unemployment for 2 months exactly, and days later was cajoled into coaching 13-15 year olds in baseball. I had 11 kids on the team, nine with single mothers. Yikes. So, I immediately created some player rules as well as parent rules. Mostly tradeoffs like "We will practice every day from 4-7, which helps you, but, every player will have a clean uniform and properly fitting shoes for every game, and you will attend every game, or find a sub, which helps me." Or, "Baseball is a privlege, and I won't tolerate bad behavior or bad effort here, at home, or at school. Say the word and your kid plays the minimum, even if we have to field 8." No kid wanted to be the reason we fielded only 8, so, I only had to sit one kid, one time. We didn't win because we had the best players. Not even close. We had one kid, who got his first hit the whole year...in a playoff game...with the bases loaded...driving in the tying and winning runs. I'm more proud of that than of some of the work I've done, because both the player and I refused to quit. All season we worked and worked and finally it paid off. We won because I hammered the value of working hard to get better into them. Well, that, and I'm a good hitting coach(from my dad), and more importantly, my pitcher friend from high school showed up at the bar out of nowhere, volunteered to help out, and turned 6 of our kids into starting pitchers...in a week. Yeah. 6 kids with at least 2 pitches they could throw for strikes if not 3. The new problem became who should start/get innings. They started arguing over it, not for personal glory, but because each truly believed they had the best chance to help the team. None of this was possible without them busting their asses to get better every day, and seeing results, which gave them confidence, and now they demanded the ball. We started using all 6 in 7 innings, and they still bitched about not being the guy who got "the start"(2 innings). Nice problem to have, especially since my buddy had all but one of his pitchers available for every game. After a week of that, I uh, delegated all pitching decisions to my buddy. On that team, every kid deserved a trophy, because they worked for it. It just so happens they got one: the league championship. It would appear that they deserved their trophy. Other kids who may have worked just as hard didn't win a championship, and don't deserve a trophy. Maybe they aren't as talented or maybe they aren't as lucky. Just maybe they need to work even harder to fully comprehend one of life's lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Perhaps a middle ground for "everyone gets a trophy" and "kids need to learn about winning and losing" is: every kid that actually participates gets a trophy. Meaning, if you make all the games and the practices, or have been excused by the coach for good reason, then and only then do you get a trophy. The thought being: if you make a commitment to your team, then keeping that commitment, and working hard at it, is what we should be honoring. My six-year old was in a karate tournament recently and won a 'fifth' place trophy (along with 20 other kids in the group). She was pretty disappointed at not winning one of the top four trophies -- which were progressively larger (1st place was as tall as the winner), and stated her intention to win it next year. But she did do a good job so having the small trophy was a positive form of recognition and gave her a good souvenir of the event. So yes, it can be beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 My six-year old was in a karate tournament recently and won a 'fifth' place trophy (along with 20 other kids in the group). She was pretty disappointed at not winning one of the top four trophies -- which were progressively larger (1st place was as tall as the winner), and stated her intention to win it next year. But she did do a good job so having the small trophy was a positive form of recognition and gave her a good souvenir of the event. So yes, it can be beneficial. That sounds like a reasonable way to handle it to me - if they're just little kids, it seems okay to me to let them all have a small trophy for completing their season, while awarding larger, more spectacular trophies for those who did the best. They receive a small award that they can be proud of, while being incented to go for the big one next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I got invited to a seventh grade graduation. Really? Congrats on accomplishing something literally every person who has survived to that age has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 That sounds like a reasonable way to handle it to me - if they're just little kids, it seems okay to me to let them all have a small trophy for completing their season, while awarding larger, more spectacular trophies for those who did the best. They receive a small award that they can be proud of, while being incented to go for the big one next year. I think where the 'everyone gets a trophy' problem started was when the powers that be started using that in lieu of competition, rather than in addition to it. I certainly didn't miss the opportunity to point out to my daughter that while I was most proud of her effort and that she had fun, if she wanted a bigger trophy next year, the way to achieve that was working hard in every karate class. I got invited to a seventh grade graduation. Really? Congrats on accomplishing something literally every person who has survived to that age has done. I posted this earlier in the week -- saw a Facebook post from my wife's cousin celebrating her little boy's graduation (in full cap and gown) from nursery school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think where the 'everyone gets a trophy' problem started was when the powers that be started using that in lieu of competition, rather than in addition to it. I certainly didn't miss the opportunity to point out to my daughter that while I was most proud of her effort and that she had fun, if she wanted a bigger trophy next year, the way to achieve that was working hard in every karate class. Couldn't agree more, couldn't have said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think where the 'everyone gets a trophy' problem started was when the powers that be started using that in lieu of competition, rather than in addition to it. I certainly didn't miss the opportunity to point out to my daughter that while I was most proud of her effort and that she had fun, if she wanted a bigger trophy next year, the way to achieve that was working hard in every karate class. I posted this earlier in the week -- saw a Facebook post from my wife's cousin celebrating her little boy's graduation (in full cap and gown) from nursery school. so what has made it worse? I don't have kids yet, but I don't get why we don't have parents stepping up and telling their kid, "look you did good and I'm proud of you, but the people who get trophies and awards were better, worked harder etc". Am I missing something as to why this seems to now become completely acceptable instead of parents standing up and teaching their kids you won't always get a trophy just for playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 so what has made it worse? I don't have kids yet, but I don't get why we don't have parents stepping up and telling their kid, "look you did good and I'm proud of you, but the people who get trophies and awards were better, worked harder etc". Am I missing something as to why this seems to now become completely acceptable instead of parents standing up and teaching their kids you won't always get a trophy just for playing? It starts with the parents, not because they don't want to tell their kids the truth, but because some parents are unable to accept the truth themselves. Many have a hard time accepting that their child is not the best at everything, and are quick to use the "It's not fair" excuse with and for their kids. It seems ridiculous, and I could never fathom it possible, but it's true. Many parents are just nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It starts with the parents, not because they don't want to tell their kids the truth, but because some parents are unable to accept the truth themselves. Many have a hard time accepting that their child is not the best at everything, and are quick to use the "It's not fair" excuse with and for their kids. It seems ridiculous, and I could never fathom it possible, but it's true. Many parents are just nuts. I think the problem is more with the schools, municipalities and other institutions who drive most of the polices. Parents can only do so much if the school insists on 'no competition' because they are scared that Sally's parents will sue them if Sally ends up in last places and cries. As with all politics, a few loud voices usually carry the day. What they all fail to understand is that Sally crying because she finished last is NOT a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think the problem is more with the schools, municipalities and other institutions who drive most of the polices. Parents can only do so much if the school insists on 'no competition' because they are scared that Sally's parents will sue them if Sally ends up in last places and cries. As with all politics, a few loud voices usually carry the day. What they all fail to understand is that Sally crying because she finished last is NOT a bad thing. I agree, but I think the schools would be less inclined to insist on "no competition" if they didn't have so many parents complaining to them about how unfair it is that little Sally Sobstory finished last again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yes. This is a problem like others have said. The big issue is that sports is tied to paying for college, etc.. etc... High stakes all around, it really isn't simple. a few loud voices usually carry the day. It has always been that way. Who wants to be part of the masses... Especially in today's winner take all society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That sounds like a reasonable way to handle it to me - if they're just little kids, it seems okay to me to let them all have a small trophy for completing their season, while awarding larger, more spectacular trophies for those who did the best. They receive a small award that they can be proud of, while being incented to go for the big one next year. This solution has some problems to it as well. I was training a new hire at work and after a month he was proud of the fact that he showed up to work every day. He actually asked me how much was the bonus for attendance. I just told him that he's supposed to show up to work every day on time. This is the generation that is now entering the workforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 It all depends. Does the employee need the employer more or does the employer need the employee more. The employer will pay for "attendance" if they are desperate enough. Nothing is set in stone. Hasn't it always been like that? I don't really think it is a generational thing. People (both employers and employees) sense the leverage they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 This solution has some problems to it as well. I was training a new hire at work and after a month he was proud of the fact that he showed up to work every day. He actually asked me how much was the bonus for attendance. I just told him that he's supposed to show up to work every day on time. This is the generation that is now entering the workforce. That's why I said 'if they're just little kids'. Older kids don't need awards for 'just showing up' I like that - a bonus for good attendance. Wouldn't that be nice, eh? You should have said 'yes, we have a bonus for good attendance - it's called keeping your job. We also offer a similar bonus for not stealing from the company.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 This solution has some problems to it as well. I was training a new hire at work and after a month he was proud of the fact that he showed up to work every day. He actually asked me how much was the bonus for attendance. I just told him that he's supposed to show up to work every day on time. This is the generation that is now entering the workforce. I hope you said "The bonus is you get to keep your job for another week". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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