Rex Ryan completely understands offenses

[Fadingpain]

 

Could it be because one was imagined and one was done in reality?

Yes. It could also be because one theory was put forth by one of the greatest military minds of all time, on, by far, the greatest general staff of the greatest fighting force of all time.

 

And the other outcome was the product of the workings of a politician running an amateur army. Which is a shame. Lots and lots of needless lives were lost (on all sides) due to the protracted outcome of the War.

 

Not sure how much you know about history or military history, but the leadership of this country's armed forces in Europe in WWII was, well, below average. You don't have to take my word for that.

May I suggest reading?

Edited January 19, 2015 by Stopthepain

[Mr. WEO]

You would think then that he could devise some type of offense that could exploit defenses using the offensive weapons that he did have.

[Fadingpain]

My biggest concern about Ryan is that he doesn't have a sufficient skill set to be a head coach. Specifically he has a reputation of being disorganized. Sure he must know something about offense because he specialty is D. But this doesn't necessarily mean he really gets how offenses work in any deep sense. Even his public statements suggests, to me, he doesn't care about the offense on his own team to even be involved sufficiently as a HC should be. A HC needs to be a control freak by definition of the job. He's responsible, ultimately, for the product on the field. I don't feel like I need to be able to have a beer with the Bills HC. I don't care if he comes across surly or boring. He needs to be a control freak and disciplinarian. Rex has a lot to learn about being a HC still. A 4-12 record on a downward trending team is not a good recent history. That's Rex's record, not the GM......I'm hopeful he can make that change and time will tell.

Is this true? Does Rex have a reputation, specifically, as being "disorganized" ??

 

That doesn't seem good. I thought the knock on him was "poor game/clock manager" and "approaches head coaching job as a defensive coordinator".

[Coach Tuesday]

Again, as I've said elsewhere, this is correct, with one important caveat: Rex Ryan intimately understands other teams' offenses, because he gameplans against them. He understands the current Bills offense because he gameplanned against it for the past two years. What he has less of a grasp of is his OWN TEAM'S offense, because he doesn't gameplan against it. So, right now, he is ideally suited to help the Bills "fix" their offense; he knows it well. The test for him will be keeping better tabs on his own offense starting in September, when he no longer has to scheme against it.

[Fadingpain]

You would think then that he could devise some type of offense that could exploit defenses using the offensive weapons that he did have.

Yes you would, which is strange, as the knock on Rex is that he is not good offensively.

 

I think it is like this: either you really understand how football at the NFL level works, or you don't.

 

If you do, you can manipulate your understanding to extract any outcome you wish. You can come up with clever offensive stuff, clever defensive stuff...you can come up with a super plan to defeat a potent offense, you can come up with a super plan to defeat great defense. Whatever. You can do what you want b/c you understand how football is played, and that's a double edged sword.

[BillsVet]

Yes. It could also be because one theory was put forth by one of the greatest military minds of all time, on, by far, the greatest general staff of the greatest fighting force of all time.

 

And the other outcome was the product of the workings of a politician running an amateur army. Which is a shame. Lots and lots of needless lives were lost (on all sides) due to the protracted outcome of the War.

 

Not sure how much you know about history or military history, but the leadership of this country's armed forces in Europe in WWII was, well, below average. You don't have to take my word for that.

May I suggest reading?

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

 

And this coming from a huge WWII reader.

[Fadingpain]

Again, as I've said elsewhere, this is correct, with one important caveat: Rex Ryan intimately understands other teams' offenses, because he gameplans against them. He understands the current Bills offense because he gameplanned against it for the past two years. What he has less of a grasp of is his OWN TEAM'S offense, because he doesn't gameplan against it. So, right now, he is ideally suited to help the Bills "fix" their offense; he knows it well. The test for him will be keeping better tabs on his own offense starting in September, when he no longer has to scheme against it.

Maybe he should start doing some "mock defensive operations" against the Bills offense then! Might help his understanding of how it works and how it can be improved!

[Mr. WEO]

You can do what you want b/c you understand how football is played, and that's a double edged sword.

 

Huh?

[Fadingpain]

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

 

And this coming from a huge WWII reader.

Hmm. The end justifies the means eh?

 

Don't confuse "outcome" with "competence" though. In a modern war, population size and industrial capacity are king.

 

It also REALLY helps if you have an ally who gave up 25 million of its people in deaths alone to kill off 80% of your enemy.

 

Huh?

Do you want me to slow this down for the kids on the short bus?

[Kelly the Dog]

You would think then that he could devise some type of offense that could exploit defenses using the offensive weapons that he did have.

Why would you think that if he had pitiful skill players across the board and lousy quarterbacks the last few years?

[Fadingpain]

Why would you think that if he had pitiful skill players across the board and lousy quarterbacks the last few years?

Because the assumption is he really understands the game of football. This is demonstrated by his dominating defenses for many years, and b/c of the close connection and relationship between offense and defense.

 

You can't understand defense without understanding offense, and vice versa. It's not a D vs. O "thing". It's a "I understand football" or you don't thing.

[Kelly the Dog]

Because the assumption is he really understands the game of football. This is demonstrated by his dominating defenses for many years, and b/c of the close connection and relationship between offense and defense.

 

You can't understand defense without understanding offense, and vice versa. It's not a D vs. O "thing". It's a "I understand football" or you don't thing.

You could be Steven Hawking and understand everything to know about outer space. But if you don't have a spaceship you can't get there.

You can't be good without good players, otherwise the best coaches would win all the time.

[Fadingpain]

You could be Steven Hawking and understand everything to know about outer space. But if you don't have a spaceship you can't get there.

You can't be good without good players, otherwise the best coaches would win all the time.

Well now I'm confused.

 

Oh I see. Your original point I guess was that Rex is a good coach but didn't have the right personnel to succeed offensively in NY. Is that correct?

If so, I agree 100%.

 

I think Rex is a good leader and a sharp football mind from a tactical perspective, despite his reputation as a "defensive guy". I hope he utilizes the personnel here in Buffalo to the best of his ability on both sides of the ball.

 

I think our offensive personnel is greatly over-rated, hence our offensive results. I hope we can make some changes in the off-season, improve the O line, get a better ball carrier, and find a QB who is at least 10% better than Kyle Orton.

[eball]

You would think then that he could devise some type of offense that could exploit defenses using the offensive weapons that he did have.

 

The "weapons" Rex had on offense were only a threat to his own team. He did manage a very proficient running attack, particularly early on.

 

To be clear, I don't think Rex Ryan is going to come in and magically "fix" the Bills' offense; I think he'll take the defense to an even higher level and provide a level of motivation and "positive" coaching this organization hasn't seen in years. Does Rex "know" offenses? Of course he does.

 

I think Rex has learned from his experience in NJ. He felt comfortable with Whaley and the Pegulas, he knows the roster, and he immediately went out and found a highly qualified OC and OL coach to put a game control offense in place.

 

All of the rest of this will come down to whether EJ can be coached up, what other QB(s) they bring in, and what they do with the OL. And none of us can predict how it will all turn out.

[Mojo44]

pretty sad understanding of a GM/ Coach relationship. Well, in honesty the above is pretty much all dribble. Please continue though.It is fascinating...................

Explain to me how my understanding of the HC/GM relationship is sad and dribble. Are you saying it was Idzik and not Rex who was primarily responsible for the 4-12 record? In other words, even Shula, Belicheck, Landry etc. would also have been 4-12 with the same personnel? My understanding of the game is just fine.

 

BTW, I'm glad you noticed I was back. If I actually hurt anyone's feelings in my posts supporting Marrone I'm truly sorry. It seemed like good back and forth repartee to me. I thought I was giving it back as good as I was getting it. But apparently I crossed some line and got suspended. Not my intention. Again, sorry I may have ruffled someone's feathers.

[eball]

@Mojo44 -- suffice it to say your "arrival" on this board and immediate support/defense of Doug Marrone were suspiciously timed. You'll have to forgive our skepticism that you're just here as a "good ol' Bills fan trying to talk some football."

[Mojo44]

@Mojo44 -- suffice it to say your "arrival" on this board and immediate support/defense of Doug Marrone were suspiciously timed. You'll have to forgive our skepticism that you're just here as a "good ol' Bills fan trying to talk some football."

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[hondo in seattle]

I'm sure there are guys who coach on the defensive side of the ball who understand defensive techniques and assignments but don't have a sophisticated understanding of offensive football.

 

But to be a top-notch DC, you have to know the intricacies of offensive game planning. If you want to take away the things that work for your opponent, you need to understand what they are and why they work.

 

Since we're making military references here, let me add this:

 

"If you know yourself and know your enemy, you will win every battle. If you know yourself, but not your enemy, you will win one then lose one. If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will be imperiled in every battle." Sun Tzu

Edited January 19, 2015 by hondo in seattle

[NoSaint]

@Mojo44 -- suffice it to say your "arrival" on this board and immediate support/defense of Doug Marrone were suspiciously timed. You'll have to forgive our skepticism that you're just here as a "good ol' Bills fan trying to talk some football."

Not any coach can get the opposite side of the ball. Certainly rex can't get offense like doug coached up our defense. Mojo knows this, but the rest of the league simply doesn't get how special doug is

[Deranged Rhino]

Yes. It could also be because one theory was put forth by one of the greatest military minds of all time, on, by far, the greatest general staff of the greatest fighting force of all time.

 

And the other outcome was the product of the workings of a politician running an amateur army. Which is a shame. Lots and lots of needless lives were lost (on all sides) due to the protracted outcome of the War.

 

Not sure how much you know about history or military history, but the leadership of this country's armed forces in Europe in WWII was, well, below average. You don't have to take my word for that.

May I suggest reading?

 

Incredible. It's the Allies' fault so many lives were lost in a war started by the Axis.

 

I'm well aware of Rommel and his genius, I'm also well versed in the war and its politics. I was poking fun and making the point that it's easy to assume Rommel could have pulled off his 14 day march to victory because he never had to do it. Just like it's easy to assume X,Y, Z about a coach, player, or game -- but that doesn't mean it's going to play out that way. That's all.