Heitz Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Because doomed Truer words were never spoken on TBD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) It was terrible. I bitched about the offensive coaching the entire year, and a lot of the stuff that has come out in the last month lends a lot of credence to it. Wood yesterday in the D&C was basically trashing Marrone for how the OL played, making Pears move, benching Urbik and then moving his position, starting Seantrel where he wasnt prepared. He said moving people around hurt them a lot. That was stupid. The Pears experiment was a monumental disaster and that is 100% on Marrone. The collective grouping on the OL was less than mediocre, regardless where you played them. Pears couldn't move adequately enough whether it was at the guard or tackle posiiton. Richardson was a disaster at LG and Glenn had a noticeable drop off from the prior season. Maybe that was due to the undisclosed illness he had prior to the season? Kugo was a second round selection who would have been cut very early in traiing camp if he wasn't a second round selection. Henderson was probably the most athletic of the linemen. As you stated at this early juncture in his career he wasn't ready for so much playing time. When the majority of your linemen fall in the category of big, slow and lumbering it doesn't matter where on the line they play because their glaring weaknesses in mobility and athleticism will be exposed and exploited. The bottom line is when you have an immobile qb such as Orton and a plodding line that is overmatched by the defense that is recipe for disaster. When your linemen and the qb have insurmountable flaws that can't be hidden and overcome you get the unsurprising results. The bottom line is that the talent level was mostly the problem, not the coaching. Edited January 9, 2015 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The collective grouping on the OL was less than mediocre, regardless where you played them. Pears couldn't move adequately enough whether it was at the guard or tackle posiiton. Richardson was a disaster at LG and Glenn had a noticeable drop off from the prior season. Maybe that was due to the undisclosed illness he had prior to the season? Kugo was a second round selection who would have been cut very early in traiing camp if he wasn't a second round selection. Henderson was probably the most athletic of the linemen. As you stated at this early juncture in his career he wasn't ready for so much playing time. When the majority of your linemen fall in the category of big, slow and lumbering it doesn't matter where on the line they play because their glaring weaknesses in mobility and athleticism will be exposed and exploited. The bottom line is when you have an immobile qb such as Orton and a plodding line that is overmatched by the defense that is recipe for disaster. When your linemen and the qb have insurmountable flaws that can't be hidden and overcome you get the unsurprising results. The bottom line is that the talent level was mostly the problem, not the coaching. At the same point, we have 3 starters from Gailey's time where we averaged 5 ypc as a team. Even though he is a God here, Levitre has been a bust since leaving here. It seems like the oline was very well coached under Gailey and dropped out big time under Marrone. No qb would have looked good with our oline in the Houston game that got EJ benched. Could you imagine Orton out there? Joe Flacco looked worse against Houston than EJ and he is a playoff God right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15803/ej-manuel EJ deserves to compete for the starting job. I don't understand how anyone would disagree with that. The distortion of EJ's stats is he constantly threw for a 2-3 yard completion when he needed 10, etc., etc. Bring him to camp. No problem. We better have a vet who can start since EJ is going to be an ongoing project. That WAS the plan to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The distortion of EJ's stats is he constantly threw for a 2-3 yard completion when he needed 10, etc., etc. Bring him to camp. No problem. We better have a vet who can start since EJ is going to be an ongoing project. That WAS the plan to begin with. You mean like Orton did all the time? If multiple Qbs are doing the same thing, maybe it was because of the game plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 give EJ a fair shot but nothing more.... Which means his competition is not Jeff Tuel and Alex "trick shot QB" Tanney. Get some REAL competition in here that is actually a threat to beat him out and may the best QB win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 At the same point, we have 3 starters from Gailey's time where we averaged 5 ypc as a team. Even though he is a God here, Levitre has been a bust since leaving here. It seems like the oline was very well coached under Gailey and dropped out big time under Marrone. No qb would have looked good with our oline in the Houston game that got EJ benched. Could you imagine Orton out there? Joe Flacco looked worse against Houston than EJ and he is a playoff God right now. Pears and Urbik were functional players at best who were declining, not getting better. Richardson was a disaster. Glenn's performance noticeably delcined from the prior year, maybe attributable to his undisclosed illness. The rookie Henderson was overmatched and should not have been playing on a full time basis. The problems associated with our slow and lumbering OL was accentuated by Orton, one of the least mobile and athletic qbs I have seen play. The bottom line for me is that collectively the players on the line did not make it up to the low-bar threshold of mediocrity. If you want to improve the play of the OL next year you need to replace at the minimum both guards and add a depth swing tackle to the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 give EJ a fair shot but nothing more.... Which means his competition is not Jeff Tuel and Alex "trick shot QB" Tanney. Get some REAL competition in here that is actually a threat to beat him out and may the best QB win. Are you trying to undermine the matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 For the record, Alex Tanney would be a fun guy to bring into camp. He could show off his trick shot throws at least to entertain the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Pears and Urbik were functional players at best who were declining, not getting better. Richardson was a disaster. Glenn's performance noticeably delcined from the prior year, maybe attributable to his undisclosed illness. The rookie Henderson was overmatched and should not have been playing on a full time basis. The problems associated with our slow and lumbering OL was accentuated by Orton, one of the least mobile and athletic qbs I have seen play. The bottom line for me is that collectively the players on the line did not make it up to the low-bar threshold of mediocrity. If you want to improve the play of the OL next year you need to replace at the minimum both guards and add a depth swing tackle to the mix. Marrone and coaches have a huge say in personnel. That's on then too. Also, predictable play calling allows defenses to tee off. This was an average group of oline talent that was poorly coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Marrone and coaches have a huge say in personnel. That's on then too. Also, predictable play calling allows defenses to tee off. This was an average group of oline talent that was poorly coached. This group of OL players was less than average. Collectively their fatal flaws of immobility and a lack of athleticism could not be overcome, no matter how good the coaching was. As I stated in a prior post Orton's lack of mobility accentutated the line's vulnerabilities. I do agree with you that Marrone's preference for a big and bulky line was a primitive and unsophisticated approach against modern day defenses that for the most part are very quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I do agree with you that Marrone's preference for a big and bulky line was a primitive and unsophisticated approach against modern day defenses that for the most part are very quick. Not to mention that he first wanted to run a hurry up no huddle offense and get plays off as fast as the Chip Kelly Eagles did, and at the same time ave big run mauling OL doing it, which is absurd in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 At the same point, we have 3 starters from Gailey's time where we averaged 5 ypc as a team. Even though he is a God here, Levitre has been a bust since leaving here. It seems like the oline was very well coached under Gailey and dropped out big time under Marrone. No qb would have looked good with our oline in the Houston game that got EJ benched. Could you imagine Orton out there? Joe Flacco looked worse against Houston than EJ and he is a playoff God right now. Everyone was 2 years older and some hit 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This group of OL players was less than average. Collectively their fatal flaws of immobility and a lack of athleticism could not be overcome, no matter how good the coaching was. As I stated in a prior post Orton's lack of mobility accentutated the line's vulnerabilities. I do agree with you that Marrone's preference for a big and bulky line was a primitive and unsophisticated approach against modern day defenses that for the most part are very quick. That's fair. I think Urbik is an average starting G (by far our best, why was he benched half the season again?), Glenn is a borderline LT, & Wood is a solid C. For good coaches, they could make that work. And to get it back to EJ, what wv would have played well in games against Houston with our oline? Why do we throw the ball 47 times against KC when they have the #1 pass defense? The Giants ran for 200 yards against Hou the week before and we throw it 44 times? maybe our offense didn't have the talent to be great but it certainly could have been average with better coaching. And an average offense gets us to he playoffs. We need a legit NFL offensive coach. Everyone was 2 years older and some hit 30. Fair but olinemen play well into their 30s. You don't take the monster hits like other positions. And why was our best G benched for half the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Not to mention that he first wanted to run a hurry up no huddle offense and get plays off as fast as the Chip Kelly Eagles did, and at the same time ave big run mauling OL doing it, which is absurd in retrospect. If you have a competent qb (not necessarily upper tier) who can make plays even a poorly constructed OL can be reasonably effective.If our qb was a more mobile qb who had a quick release and was accurate our line liabilites could have been limited. As bad as our OL was it was the dismal play of our immobile qb that crippled the offense. Watkins and Woods very often got open to no avail. Their exasperation was very visible. The qb simply was unable to consistently get them the ball. If a decent passing game existed it is more likely that the running lanes would have materialized with greater frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 That's fair. I think Urbik is an average starting G (by far our best, why was he benched half the season again?), Glenn is a borderline LT, & Wood is a solid C. For good coaches, they could make that work. And to get it back to EJ, what wv would have played well in games against Houston with our oline? Why do we throw the ball 47 times against KC when they have the #1 pass defense? The Giants ran for 200 yards against Hou the week before and we throw it 44 times? maybe our offense didn't have the talent to be great but it certainly could have been average with better coaching. And an average offense gets us to he playoffs. We need a legit NFL offensive coach. Fair but olinemen play well into their 30s. You don't take the monster hits like other positions. And why was our best G benched for half the season? He was worse than Chris Williams. I think the severe drop off in Wood and Pears have been explained by folks more well-versed in O-line mechanics than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I posted this in another thread but it is certainly a recruiting tool. Would someone take the job if the GM said, "the guy that we drafted in the 1st round can't play. He's our only option though?" What he is telling candidates is, "EJ has been coming along great but Marrone was too stubborn to use him. It was a big mistake on the previous staff." That is definitely a part of this equation. He wants the candidates to think that they are walking into a much better QB situation than they are. I think this is exactly what's going on. Also, Whaley has mentioned pretty clearly that he is going after a QB in FA or trading for one. So, it's definetly a statement that EJ is not as bad as Marrone would have you think, and we are also getting another QB. So you would not be inheriting a terrible situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi1 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Marrone is no Chip Kelly by any stretch of the imagination. One is a genuine winner, and the other is a quitter. Coach Kelly could elevate EJ's game in his sleep. The main/major problem with the Bills offense has since shallow-texted out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 5m5 minutes ago #Bills source: "Ryan views EJ as step up at QB because he's not a turnover machine like Sanchez, Geno, Vick. Whaley sold that, Rex agreed." Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 1m1 minute ago In 2012, Sanchez threw 18 INTs, fumbled 14x. In 2013, Geno threw 21 INTs, fumbled 8x. In 2014, Geno/Vick combined for 15 INTs, 13 fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 a major fault with EJ is he is too cautious. I'd like him to take more risks. But he is much more careful with the ball than Smith or Sanchez. It's why I don't think Rex would want Cutler or Sanchez. Defensive coaches hate offensive turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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