Package Deal? (Mike & Kyle Shanahan)

[Whack 'Em Williams]

I'd take them both as a package deal with the Schwartz!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

My concern about Shanahan is historical. Although there are several examples of coaches who went from mediocre in their first HC job to winning a SB on their second, and a couple of examples of Super Bowl coaches taking a second team to the big dance, up to know not a single SB-winning coach has managed to win a Super Bowl with a different team. Playoffs, sure, and an SB appearance or two, but no victories. Do we really think that Mike Shanahan will buck that trend?

This post reminds me of the old historical media plug about the NFL leading rusher not being on a Super Bowl champ. Therefore, the narrative was you couldn't win if you had the leading rusher. Then comes Emmitt Smith......we know the rest of the story. Believing that because something hasn't happened, that It won't, is very dangerous.

Edited January 6, 2015 by moreproblemsthanOrton

[C.Biscuit97]

After Elway left the Broncos, Shanahan's record from 2000-2006 was 70-42 (averaging 10-6 over that stretch), and the Broncos didn't have one losing season in that seven year run. They reached one AFC championship game and beat the Pats in the playoffs. The idea that he was a crappy coach without Elway is a myth. He struggled afterward and DC was difficult, but he did get to the playoffs one season, and that's saying something given the owner of that team.

I think he is one of the best offensive minds in football. But 2006 was a long time ago. He is a sub .500 since Cutler and beyond.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I think he is one of the best offensive minds in football. But 2006 was a long time ago. He is a sub .500 since Cutler and beyond.

Yeah 2006 was 8 years ago, we were all years younger. What have you done lately right?

Edited January 6, 2015 by moreproblemsthanOrton

[reddogblitz]

This post reminds me of the old historical media plug about the NFL leading rusher not being on a Super Bowl champ. Therefore, the narrative was you couldn't win if you had the leading rusher. Then comes Emmitt Smith......we know the rest of the story.

At one time it was thought that the 4 minute mile was impossible and would never be achieved.

 

At one time, a dome team had never won the Super Bowl.

 

Yeah, the no coach has won 2 is a really dumb argument. Would you really base your HC decision on this?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

At one time it was thought that the 4 minute mile was impossible and would never be achieved.

 

At one time, a dome team had never won the Super Bowl.

 

Yeah, the no coach has won 2 is a really dumb argument. Would you really base your HC decision on this?

Not a chance! I go through the process and pick who works best for my team.

[KDIGGZ]

Not questioning, but is there a link to this not being a package deal?

Same. Is there a link?

Jason La Canfora was reporting that they are not a package deal. Kyle is doing his own thing separate from whatever his dad does

[TheFunPolice]

no thanks to Kyle

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Jason La Canfora was reporting that they are not a package deal. Kyle is doing his own thing separate from whatever his dad does

Thanks!

[C.Biscuit97]

Jason La Canfora was reporting that they are not a package deal. Kyle is doing his own thing separate from whatever his dad does

I love this. Like Kyle would be anywhere coaching in the NFL if not for daddy.

 

Avoid coaches who's dads are the only reason they are in the NFL.

[CardinalScotts]

couple things bother me...junior getting dragged around the NFL by his dad...just looks bad because I think Kyle has a good offensive mind

 

No one in the history of the league as a coach has won a super bowl with two different teams.....and the league has been around awhile-. Mike hasnt been relevant in almost 18 years, the Bills would win the press conference but nothing else. I'd rather move Schwartz over or bring in Hue Jackson or Frank Reich the Bills might take a media hit on Reich but the guys only been coaching for 5 years and already a coordinator and well respected. Hue is tremendous offensive coach, completely under rated..

 

Lastly the guys who need to have a "name" hired what a pathetic arguement. Where did Mike McCarthy come from ? or Chuck Pagano, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Mike Caldwell hmmm kinda listing the playoff teams and not on purpose. Find a good coach and to hell with the idiot reactions

Edited January 6, 2015 by CardinalScotts

[Maddog69]

Not a terrible argument, but 17 years of middling success since John Elway retired (and at least one hilarious takedown of his self-importance by Gregg Easterbrook) have made me skeptical about the Genius of Shanahan.

I was talking about Kyle Shanahan being as qualified for a HC interview as any of the other young OC's. Your reply appears to be about his father.

[C.Biscuit97]

couple things bother me...junior getting dragged around the NFL by his dad...just looks bad because I think Kyle has a good offensive mind

 

No one in the history of the league as a coach has won a super bowl with two different teams.....and the league has been around awhile-. Mike hasnt been relevant in almost 18 years, the Bills would win the press conference but nothing else. I'd rather move Schwartz over or bring in Hue Jackson or Frank Reich the Bills might take a media hit on Reich but the guys only been coaching for 5 years and already a coordinator and well respected. Hue is tremendous offensive coach, completely under rated..

 

Lastly the guys who need to have a "name" hired what a pathetic arguement. Where did Mike McCarthy come from ? or Chuck Pagano, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Mike Caldwell hmmm kinda listing the playoff teams and not on purpose. Find a good coach and to hell with the idiot reactions

Good points. I do think Shanahan is a very good offensive coach. But he has been sub .500 since he drafted Cutler.

[dcjoev]

This whole deal would be that the Shanahan's know a QB they want to work with and know they can get him. It's most likely Cousins. Could be Cutler.

 

If Schwartz is staying what fan wouldn't want this? They will fix the O.

Now we're on to something... I agree 100 percent!!!

I'm not crazy about Mike Shanahan as HC, for the reasons already stated by so many on this thread. As for Kyle - he did work some magic with RGIII in DC, and did a reasonable job in Cleveland this year.

 

But even if I loved both the Shanahii, I'd be against this idea. Why would anyone EVER hire a father and son team as GM/HC or HC/Coordinator? Why would you put yourself in a position where you have one decision-maker who will not fire his subordinate under any circumstances?

 

You wouldn't, and you shouldn't. It's a terrible position in which to put your organization. If you want a Shanahan, hire Kyle - but don't put Mike in a position where to get rid of Kyle, you have to blow up the whole team.

You make a very good point here. That's why I think it would be best to separate the two, with Mike as the Director of Football Operations, Whaley as GM and Kyle as head coach. Then you make a play for an offensive coordinator who the Shannys admire and trust. In my opinion, that would be Gary Kubiak, if he doesn't get another head coaching gig and agrees to cut bait with the Ravens.

 

To refresh everyone's memories, Gary was Mike's OC during their Super Bowl years with the Broncos and hired Kyle to be his OC when Koobs was head coach in Houston.

Edited January 6, 2015 by dcjoev

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I was talking about Kyle Shanahan being as qualified for a HC interview as any of the other young OC's. Your reply appears to be about his father.

 

It was indeed. I apologize for misreading your comment.

 

As a response to others who objected to my historical observation, I'll note that I was not saying that was a reason on its own to reject Shanahan, but simply one of my concerns. I have many more reservations about Mike Shanahan that go beyond that. And of course it is possible, even likely, that someone in the future will break that streak. Life is funny that way. But if history has any value (and I think it does) it is in helping us to be careful about our future choices. Not as hard and fast rules, but as reminders and caveats. The fact that no coach has won a super bowl with two different teams is the result of a lot of variables--such coaches, for example, are often less patient in subsequent jobs, less willing to work with staff or take suggestions than they were before they reached the top of the mountain. Those are basically the criticisms leveled against Parcells, Johnson, and Shanahan after they won Super Bowls.They also may not be quite the same geniuses when not coaching great players (Jimmy Johnson was less of a genius with Jay Fiedler than Troy Aikman, for example.)

Edited January 6, 2015 by RJ (not THAT RJ)

[dcjoev]

Interesting plan. What I'm not clear on is why Kubiak would step away from coaching Flacco in the playoffs, to take a lateral position coaching EJ, Tuel and ? in Buffalo.

 

What's in it for Kubiak?

That's not possible because Kubiak has refused to interview with ANY team while the Ravens are still in the tournament. See here and here...

 

Ultimately, this gives Terry and Kim Pegula the extra time they need to work out a possible three-man reunion of Gary, Mike and Kyle. I'm not sure if I'm the only one on this board that has thought about Kubiak as part of the equation, but he could certainly be Buffalo's OC if Mike becomes head coach or lobbies his son for it. Of course, Koobs would fall out of the equation if he gets hired elsewhere for a head job, chooses to stay in Baltimore, or if Mike returns to coach and lures Kyle away from Cleveland to serve as his OC again.

I was responding to a different Shanahan thread that later got merged. I don't expect it to make sense now and it's not worth my time trying to explain.

Thanks for trying to respond to my post that got merged. It was entitled "2 Shannys and a Koobs?", in reference to a scenario in which both Shanahans would shuffle into Buffalo, while the Pegulas found a way to lure Gary Kubiak from his offensive coordinator role in Baltimore. Of course, this would happen when the Ravens season concludes.

 

In that case, anything is possible, with all 3 men capable of the head coaching role. In my opinion, Mike would defer to his son, while accepting the Bill Poilan "Czar" role and Kubiak would serve as a second mentor to him in the OC role. I say this because I think it's safer for Kubiak to limit his responsibilities, after he suffered a mini-stroke last year as head coach of the Texans.

[Wesdawg]

 

It was indeed. I apologize for misreading your comment.

 

As a response to others who objected to my historical observation, I'll note that I was not saying that was a reason on its own to reject Shanahan, but simply one of my concerns. I have many more reservations about Mike Shanahan that go beyond that. And of course it is possible, even likely, that someone in the future will break that streak. Life is funny that way. But if history has any value (and I think it does) it is in helping us to be careful about our future choices. Not as hard and fast rules, but as reminders and caveats. The fact that no coach has won a super bowl with two different teams is the result of a lot of variables--such coaches, for example, are often less patient in subsequent jobs, less willing to work with staff or take suggestions than they were before they reached the top of the mountain. Those are basically the criticisms leveled against Parcells, Johnson, and Shanahan after they won Super Bowls.They also may not be quite the same geniuses when not coaching great players (Jimmy Johnson was less of a genius with Jay Fiedler Dan Marino than Troy Aikman, for example.)

Fixed.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Fixed.

 

Ha!

[Ted William's frozen head]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12129878/kyle-shanahan-soured-cleveland-browns-friction-report-said

[Uffalo Ills]

Id be ok if one of them was hc and one was oc, but the rumor was mike as hc and his son as hc. that is too much power for one camp. I personally would prefer just one of them; Mike by himself...