John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 100% and well said. The continued regression of QBs under this regime is alarming to say the least. EJ, Thad, Tuel, now Orton. Each one showed competency early, each one got significantly worse the more time they spent in the system. Yes, some of this can be attributed to opposing defenses getting more film and taking things away from them, but not all of it. Some of it, probably the largest portion, falls squarely on this coaching staff. Marrone's system is terrible, Hackfuk's calls are worse. I hate the philosophy of the scheme, I hate the fact that Marrone seems to think they have a line built to maul people when all they do is whiff. I hate the fact Orton looks like a lifeless doll out there and hate that he's been neutered (to use your phrase which was brilliant). I'm at a loss right now because I do not think the best decision is to fire Marrone and scrap what's being built -- but I also have zero confidence that the offensive woes will change with a simple change at OC since Marrone's the one who designed the scheme. I really don't know what I'm rooting for in the off season now ... other than two new guards, a TE and a new QB not named Cutler or Orton. This is my view on this as well....it seems like with each passing week QBs that are coached by Hackett become more and more neutered. Remember when Kyle Orton first came in and had that 300 yard plus passing game.....he threw a untimely pick but overall looked awesome? His game has gone downhill every week thereafter. Manuel frankly has regressed as well......whatever Marrone and Hackett are doing to groom QBs IS NOT WORKING...its not......some of it is on the QBs.....a lot of it is on the OL (Marrone needs to back the F off of being some kind of OL guru and get a REAL offensive line coach in here Frankly....I feel that Marrone needs be become strictly a game manager....bring in one of these HC's that are about to be fired that were former crackerjack OC's.....and give them the automony that he gives Schwartz.....let a experienced successful OC do his thing...... And upgrade QB, TE, and OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 The coaching is terrible, but the Orton you are referring to had more lower-body athleticism and more fight. Kelly, this guy is washed up. He's played ten games. In a generic sense, he was the average Orton for the first five. He has been the intolerable horrendous Orton for five straight games. If he was washed up, he wouldn't have been the average Orton for the first five games IMO. I remember defending him in the first five games when naysayers were saying he really isn't and was never that good. To me he was playing well enough though, and that is the way he always was. And that's all we needed. But he's regressed horribly. He has very little confidence. He's not the give one take one guy that he always was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 He's played ten games. In a generic sense, he was the average Orton for the first five. He has been the intolerable horrendous Orton for five straight games. If he was washed up, he wouldn't have been the average Orton for the first five games IMO. I remember defending him in the first five games when naysayers were saying he really isn't and was never that good. To me he was playing well enough though, and that is the way he always was. And that's all we needed. But he's regressed horribly. He has very little confidence. He's not the give one take one guy that he always was. Or, once opposing D coordinators had some film on him and took away his comfort zones, he lacked the athleticism or the will to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I liked Orton better when he was in "Freddy Got Fingered". Orton and this O-line deserve each other. Spiller looked good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I've been missing Fitz for 2 yrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 He's played ten games. In a generic sense, he was the average Orton for the first five. He has been the intolerable horrendous Orton for five straight games. If he was washed up, he wouldn't have been the average Orton for the first five games IMO. I remember defending him in the first five games when naysayers were saying he really isn't and was never that good. To me he was playing well enough though, and that is the way he always was. And that's all we needed. But he's regressed horribly. He has very little confidence. He's not the give one take one guy that he always was. I thought the decision to put him was extremely short sighted. All it took was a few youtube videos to figure out what Orton could do. He had a great october, then regressed back to same ole Kyle. I said when Marrone made the switch that it had better work, because otherwise he had no first round pick, no idea what his first pick last year was capable of and a 31 year avg QB who might retire and will waver all offseason before deciding not to show up. The Bills have a fantastic roster and a horrible QB and we are no closer to see what Marrones hand picked QB can do. I give Doug a lot of credit for making this a tough team to face, but he just blew his season against the Raiders. If he is fired, I wouldn't shed a tear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I thought the decision to put him was extremely short sighted. All it took was a few youtube videos to figure out what Orton could do. He had a great october, then regressed back to same ole Kyle. I said when Marrone made the switch that it had better work, because otherwise he had no first round pick, no idea what his first pick last year was capable of and a 31 year avg QB who might retire and will waver all offseason before deciding not to show up. The Bills have a fantastic roster and a horrible QB and we are no closer to see what Marrones hand picked QB can do. I give Doug a lot of credit for making this a tough team to face, but he just blew his season against the Raiders. If he is fired, I wouldn't shed a tear I totally disagree. The great October was the same old Kyle. He missed a lot of passes to wide open guys. Threw untimely picks. Fumbled. But made enough plays to even it out. The last five games are not anything like the same old Kyle. He's brutally bad. The same old Kyle was not brutally bad, he was maddening inconsistent. Which is what we got early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) I totally disagree. The great October was the same old Kyle. He missed a lot of passes to wide open guys. Threw untimely picks. Fumbled. But made enough plays to even it out. The last five games are not anything like the same old Kyle. He's brutally bad. The same old Kyle was not brutally bad, he was maddening inconsistent. Which is what we got early. Fair enough. I thought his October was pretty good. Sad to hear that that was same old Kyle I agree he has been horrendous the last few weeks. Some of the worst QBing I've ever seen Edited December 22, 2014 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Sadly, EJ sucks just as bad...if not worse. Some still hope that could change with more development, but I think that's just wishful thinking. Bills have no hope at the position for the foreseeable, and Whaley bombing out on EJ was crushing for the franchise. Best hope is we nail a surprise in the 2nd or 3rd round who shows promise. Whaley is better at hitting on lower round picks than high so worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Our QB coach is terrible - look at what he did with Stafford last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Our QB coach is terrible - look at what he did with Stafford last year. Well, he is a ginger and everyone knows they have no souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Geno Smith beat the Raiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Orton's poor performance (on aggregate) this season is not about him regressing. It's not about him at all. It's about the opposition's defensive coordinators quickly surmising what he can and can't do. As someone posted above, it is easy to figure out pretty quickly what the guy can't do...like throw deep. At this level, it is easy for most coordinators to completely take away Orton's handful of strengths, and then dare him to beat the opposition with what he effectively can't do. This is why Orton's performance just kept getting worse and worse. It has nothing to do with Orton; he was actually probably improving as an individual as the season wore on. He was getting in better game shape (I assume) and becoming more familiar with the playbook the entire time...and forcing his brain to think more about football and Xs and Os the entire time. The difference is what the opposition did to shut him down. At this level of coaching and gameplay, you have to have more arrows in your quiver than what a guy like Orton or EJ brings to the fight. That's why they are below average quarterbacks. Edited December 22, 2014 by Stopthepain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Knew before the game started we were gonna be in a close one due to the fact that orton really sucks. Keep throwing 2 yard passes on 3rd and 10. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkgobills Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I've been missing Fitz for 2 yrs Yep, Fitzy wasn't the solution...but he was a better problem than what we have on the roster at this point. We ended up starting a QB for 10 games that was out of football for all of the off season and training camp. Of course he is not the answer, if he was he wouldn't have been out of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Or, once opposing D coordinators had some film on him and took away his comfort zones, he lacked the athleticism or the will to be successful. Be careful. I said that after week 5 and got MAULED!!! I guess mentioning tape is too cliche Edited December 22, 2014 by Agent 91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Be careful. I said that after week 5 and got MAULED!!! I guess mentioning tape is too cliche I really don't see it that way. He's missing passes to wide open guys when he has plenty of time. His problem isn't finding guys to pass to. There are all kinds of plays a game when teams can defend you. His problem is missing wide open guys all game long. He's never done that before. I didn't even mind his INT to Woodson or missing Sammy on a bomb when he was open. Those happen and he's trying to make a play. I mind when he is so scared and hesitant that he can't complete a three yard pass. There was a play in the first half when he missed a three yard pass to watkins by about four yards. That's not defenses figuring him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I really don't see it that way. He's missing passes to wide open guys when he has plenty of time. His problem isn't finding guys to pass to. There are all kinds of plays a game when teams can defend you. His problem is missing wide open guys all game long. He's never done that before. I didn't even mind his INT to Woodson or missing Sammy on a bomb when he was open. Those happen and he's trying to make a play. I mind when he is so scared and hesitant that he can't complete a three yard pass. There was a play in the first half when he missed a three yard pass to watkins by about four yards. That's not defenses figuring him out. Or deciding to throw a 2 yard pass to a TE when they're clearly blanketed. Sometimes on 3rd down. This dude either sucks that bad or he's damaged beyond repair. Too bad it's been happening for over a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I really don't see it that way. He's missing passes to wide open guys when he has plenty of time. His problem isn't finding guys to pass to. There are all kinds of plays a game when teams can defend you. His problem is missing wide open guys all game long. He's never done that before. I didn't even mind his INT to Woodson or missing Sammy on a bomb when he was open. Those happen and he's trying to make a play. I mind when he is so scared and hesitant that he can't complete a three yard pass. There was a play in the first half when he missed a three yard pass to watkins by about four yards. That's not defenses figuring him out. I have to ask.... how much of Kyle Orton did you watch before this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I have to ask.... how much of Kyle Orton did you watch before this season? Pretty good amount. Almost all the Denver version because I like them, they were the later games, and I was on Tebow watch (although not a fan). A decent amount of Chicago games or parts of them. I always had Sunday Ticket and I am a huge NFL fan for 50 years. I watch a lot. More Denver version than Chicago version though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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