section122 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Fair points...and i get the continuity angle. I disagree Schrwartz has to go if new coach comes in, ...and i am prolly one of the few on here who has zero issues with Hackett. I thought he called a great first half Sunday...the Bills just could not execute the plays. For the record, i dont think theres is a snowball chance in hades he gets fired...but to the original point...i dont think there will ever be a year where he faces LESS adversity than this year(unless we get both Souths next year ) Well they do get the AFC South but also the NFC East. I don't want to jinx myself in the adversity department but I posted earlier some of the things that the writer may have been discussing. As for injuries I plead the 5th as again I want no part in jinxing anything lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think it is actually the opposite. I think many here watch the Bills TOO closely. Every tiny minute move is dissected and discussed until it is beat into the ground. Many here didn't like the Marrone hire and every story they can use to justify their preconceived notions they use. This is the general consensus about the job Marrone has done from outsiders. We are fans so it is difficult to reconcile the fact that these are the lowly Bills we are talking about. The fact that Marrone has brought them back to respectability is not lost like it is here. Here everyone wants to credit Whaley for the good roster moves and blame Marrone for the bad ones. They want to credit Schwartz and Pettine for the play of the defense and give none of it to Marrone. When Orton plays well it is in spite of the coaching blah blah blah. Marrone is doing a good job here whether people want to admit it or not. Nobody turns it around overnight anymore especially from the doldrums that were the 2000s Buffalo Bills. Exactly some like complaining and bragging on how much they foresaw Bills failing than they do when Bills DO play well and manage to upset all of the experts, most of who have no chance of ever being hired by a football team or if they are ex-coaches and ex-gms no longer are willing to put in the hours to be coaching or running a football team. It is so easy to be such a fan; all it takes is crumbling up your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Nobody turns it around overnight anymore especially from the doldrums that were the 2000s Buffalo Bills. Hardball and Bruce Arians tend to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Hardball and Bruce Arians tend to disagree. Harbaugh - took over a team that went 8-8 2 years before he took them over. Arians - took over a team that also was 8-8 2 years before he took them over, a team that had been to the super bowl 5 years before he took them over and was a playoff team 4 years before he took them over. Again neither of these situations are even close to the Buffalo Bills and how bad they have been. Marrone - took over a team that finished last in their division 6 straight years before he took over (let that sink in), a team that hadn't been at least 8-8 for 10 years before he took them over. Certainly you can see the difference in these situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Harbaugh - took over a team that went 8-8 2 years before he took them over. Arians - took over a team that also was 8-8 2 years before he took them over, a team that had been to the super bowl 5 years before he took them over and was a playoff team 4 years before he took them over. Again neither of these situations are even close to the Buffalo Bills and how bad they have been. Marrone - took over a team that finished last in their division 6 straight years before he took over (let that sink in), a team that hadn't been at least 8-8 for 10 years before he took them over. Certainly you can see the difference in these situations? Yup. People have short memories. Marv's tenure at the helm set this franchise back 5 years. We're juuuuust starting to pull out from his debacle which was compounded by going to a semi retired scout who'd rather be home than building a football team. Ralph did a lot for this team and I'm grateful -- but his leadership and decision making at the top doomed this team to the 14 year drought we're suffering through. The good news is that the roster has finally been turned around. It's not a complete job yet but the foundation is there... and people want to run Whaley out of town. They have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think Whaleys done a fine job. He's done a solid job building the roster, but you can't overlook his decision making on the QB situation which is BY FAR the most important position in the sport. To think we almost went into the season with Manuel, Palmer, and Tuel as our three QB's would've been an absolute disaster especially after trading next years first rounder for a WR. If he does stick around, this should be the number one priority. Finding a QB. If Cutler is indeed available, while it would be a risky move, should be a serious consideration as trading for him would be a big upgrade and potentially put this team in the conversation for Superbowl contender next year. The QB situation is a weakness, but there has not been any viable QBs that they've missed out on under Doug unless you want to claim Russell Wilson (which was during the transition) which every other team overlooked. Marrone has to share a lot of the QB responsibility as he was the one who advocated for both Tuel and Jackson going into the off season. Still, Doug made adjustments and fixed the problem as best they could considering the talent available. So I don't think it's fair to blame him for the QB situation without mentioning he also addressed it with Orton which has given the team at least 2 extra wins. Running Whaley out now would be a disaster for a franchise that is finally on a true upswing. I tend to think getting rid of Marrone would be a set back as well -- but I reserve the right to change my mind on that one when the season's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 How about the win against the 13-3 Panthers last year How about beating the defending Super Bowl champions last year How about the 19-0 win against Miami last year when they needed to win to get in the playoffs How about the win on the road against the 9-4 Lions this year How about the win week 1 against Chicago when nobody (yourself included if you are being honest with yourself) had them winning No it was never a good o-line. The team featured a quick strike offense that both masked FItz's weak arm and the lack of talent on the o-line. The pass plays were quick hitters. In case you want to talk about how much better Gailey was he led the team to the 14th, 19th, and 25th best offense while here. I am not saying Gailey is better. I am saying Marrone should be able to adapt to the players he has and the O line should be able to do better with what it has. And Marrone is an O line coach. However, if Gailey had this defense he would have done better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Wait a minute.... Wasn't this the NO EXCUSES SEASON ? You know, HEADS ROLL if we miss the playoffs again. Oh wait, maybe that is next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Harbaugh - took over a team that went 8-8 2 years before he took them over. Arians - took over a team that also was 8-8 2 years before he took them over, a team that had been to the super bowl 5 years before he took them over and was a playoff team 4 years before he took them over. Again neither of these situations are even close to the Buffalo Bills and how bad they have been. these situations? Maybe they weren't "as bad", but they were still bad teams. And they were turned around in one year. Most teams consider a 8-8 season followed by a losing season to be bad. Even as a Bills fan used to bad stuff, I would say that's a bad team. I'll offer another example. Andy Reid turned around the Cheaps in one season as well. Anyone remember what their last season was like before Andy arrived? Romeo Crennel. A LB shooting himself in the head at the practice field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Maybe they weren't "as bad", but they were still bad teams. And they were turned around in one year. Most teams consider a 8-8 season followed by a losing season to be bad. Even as a Bills fan used to bad stuff, I would say that's a bad team. I'll offer another example. Andy Reid turned around the Cheaps in one season as well. Anyone remember what their last season was like before Andy arrived? Romeo Crennel. A LB shooting himself in the head at the practice field. Yikes man, c'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The QB situation is a weakness, but there has not been any viable QBs that they've missed out on under Doug unless you want to claim Russell Wilson (which was during the transition) which every other team overlooked. Actually Russell Wilson was taken in the 2012 draft before Coach Gailey's final season. I saw an interview with him where he said he thought the Bills were going to draft him. He visited a couple of times and said they really liked him and told him they were going to try to get him. He was surprised when Bills passed on him in round 3 and instead traded up for TJ Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Actually Russell Wilson was taken in the 2012 draft before Coach Gailey's final season. I saw an interview with him where he said he thought the Bills were going to draft him. He visited a couple of times and said they really liked him and told him they were going to try to get him. He was surprised when Bills passed on him in round 3 and instead traded up for TJ Graham. The Seahawks were also very concerned that the Bills were going to select him in the 3rd round of that draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Actually Russell Wilson was taken in the 2012 draft before Coach Gailey's final season. I saw an interview with him where he said he thought the Bills were going to draft him. He visited a couple of times and said they really liked him and told him they were going to try to get him. He was surprised when Bills passed on him in round 3 and instead traded up for TJ Graham. ESPN ran a good piece on it this weekend too. There's no doubt the Bills were sniffing around and made a blunder by not grabbing Wilson. 2012 Whaley was the Asst. GM and heir to Buddy -- so I was giving the Whaley haters the benefit of the doubt saying Whaley may have had some say in that decision. But, as you said, Whaley wasn't running the show. Thus, to me, it's completely unfair to say he's bungled the QB position. There hasn't been one QB he's missed out on, despite what folks want to believe. He rolled the dice on EJ, knowing he wasn't a sure thing which is why he traded down and ended up with Kiko and EJ. Give the guy time. He's done more than enough to warrant another off season to continue the rebuild. So far he's been excellent, and the folks who can't see that are the types who want to run him out of town just for the sake of change. It's short sighted and silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Yeah, ok...everyone is down on the Bills QB's, and justifiably so, I suppose. But the real question is, who do you replace them with? Are Bills fans going to tolerate another rookie? What free agent would be available that won't have as many questions and concerns as Orton & Tuel. Sure, I would be a little excited if they went after Cutler, because I think he is better than either of the guys we have..but he will likely bring his own issues to the table, least of which would be a fan base that is looking for any reason they can to fry QB's. Just don't think Cutler and Buffalo would be a good mix...I am not sold on Kaepernick or RGIII at this point, either. Who does that leave? Matt Schaub? Brian Hoyer? Are any of these guys an upgrade over what we have? What really gets me is if you asked any Bills fan to rank, grade Kyle Orton vs the rest of the NFL QB's he would probably come in around 20th or so. Justifiably, rightfully so. Orton is far, far from an elite QB. So why on gods green earth does this coaching staff insist he keep carrying the entire offense game, after game. Yet, this regime thinks they have Tom Brady, Drew Brees at QB, and keep asking him to throw it 40 times a game while rushing only half that. Then this last game it became really ridiculous this last game with asking him to throw 57 times with only 16 rushes. Adam Schein is a complete buffoon if he thinks Doug Maroon has done a fabulous job of keeping Buffalo afloat this season. If anything its been Jim Schwartz, and his 5th ranked defense that leads the NFL in sacks vs the 28th to 24th ranked offense run by Marrone / Hackett. No QB on earth is going to succeed with the morons currently running the offensive side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I am with you 26. What freakin adversity has Marone gone through this year??? Team missed a day of practice, moved a game to Detroit against the worst team in the league. (some suggest was a bonding experience) That is it......the sum total of his adversity OTOH Only one significant injury to an impact starter. One...One... ........ are you kidding me??? What good fortune is that? (maybe you could put Leo in there) Huge, jacked up beyond normal, emotional crowds for two divisional home games. He loses one. No Toronto game this year. One West Coast Game A defense that keeps his team in every single stinking game ( that he does not coach one iota) This guy had everything break RIGHT for him this year...the exact opposite of adversity you conveniently ignore a crappy offensive line for every game and piss poor QB play almost every game. That's debatable. If you look at the numbers, I think that you'll find that the Dolphins have not gotten much better production than the Bills have from that position. I'd take Tannehill in a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Someone explain why Philbin deserves to be fired (at 7-6) but Marrone doesn't. Are the Dolphins that much more talented? does it matter Phillbin is in his third year and some bozo's are calling for Marrone before the end of year two that could see us win 10 games???? This board is pathetic I think it's because we dont know what else to do....fire coach look to draft. Again it's what bad teams do fire the coach every 1-2 years can't get anything going and they wonder why it's amazing. THIS bills front office is different Marrone isnt going anywhere he's done a great job and Whaley will be here with him. WAaaaaaaa!!!!! Beckham might be better than Sammy Waaaa!!! I base my opinions of a guys career on a dozen games waaaaa!!!!!! PATHETIC ...stop listening to WGR Maybe they weren't "as bad", but they were still bad teams. And they were turned around in one year. Most teams consider a 8-8 season followed by a losing season to be bad. Even as a Bills fan used to bad stuff, I would say that's a bad team. I'll offer another example. Andy Reid turned around the Cheaps in one season as well. Anyone remember what their last season was like before Andy arrived? Romeo Crennel. A LB shooting himself in the head at the practice field. chiefs were a complete schedule turn around.....facing back up qb one after another....their fans even admit it. Now chiefs might miss playoffs this year......Reid has to GO fire him !! Oh wait again that's what bad teams do...Reid will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Funny, I meant to say "Orton, EJ and Tuel". I don't mind that approach, but is Orton that much worse than most of the other guys mentioned? Isn't bringing back Orton, Manuel, Tuel and then signing another guy (either another FA vet, say, like Cousins) or drafting another mid-round guy, kind of the same thing? Just not see that I see the reason to jettison Orton, Manuel, and/or Tuel (if he is even relevant at this point) in favor of a similar bag of toys with different names. The only guy I see metnioned (at this point anyways) that I would see as a clear upgrade is Cutler...and I am not even sure I would want them to make that move... I think he is worlds better, talent wise, but not sure that his personality would mesh well with WNY football fans, and he obviously has his own issues. I'm kind of done with Orton. He's not the answer. Tuel is never going to amount to anything. I mention keeping Manuel only because I know they won't pull the plug on him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'd like Orton to stick around another season while we try to bring in someone better. With a real offensive line, he can take us to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 20/20 hindsight, but I'd rather have kept Fitzpatrick and waited for Manziel rather than pinning hopes that EJ will be more than a career backup. Now that we have Orton, our best option is to stick with him until we have a shot at a potential franchise QB, and when we do, we need to act on it. Get a QB. Everything else falls into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Every single decision is critiqued to no end. Please show me one coach who is perfect. Just one. That is what I mean. Does he know where Jerry Hughes is? Does it matter what he says? These things get handled in house but because we as fans don't know what happened people use it to fit their narrative. You would hate to be a Patriots* fan and the non answers given by Belicheck. On top of that Hughes normally plays about 70% of snaps which in this game would have been 38.5 snaps, he played 31. We want to make a huge deal about 7 snaps? The innovative offense? It's with the NFL caliber qb. What kind of offense do you expect with Kyle Orton running the show. The guy is a career .500 player and has shown exactly that on the Bills. If the Bills won as much as the patriots.I wouldn't care if Marrone was a deaf mute. And it's not about quantity. Its instead quality. Which 38 snaps is Hughes playing. is Mario playing. There is no excuse for them to be on the side line in crunch time or 3rd down. Barring injury. And we have all seen the whole d line out at the same time. You mention the offense. But who was over the moon with the orton signing. Marrone said that was a guy they really wanted. Someone who they hoped to sign. I understand the EJ concept in the sense that they thought the saw something that they could use. He was an unknown coming out of college. Where as Orton has a full career worth of film on him and he has sucked everywhere. I told the board after the first Jets game. Lets see what Orton has after he has a few game tapes and teams figure him out. Was I right? Marrone has only been good at hiring DCs. Remember his no nonsense accountability rant. We still have an inferior OC no QB development. No o line (line guru). But he has done a good job with what? We have a conference championship defense at minimum. And this guy has to look them in the eye AGAIN and tell them he failed. We have punt catchers we have kick specialists we have all this unnecessary crap but the few FEW positions we need to address have not been properly addressed. And we still STILL are 7-6 would anyone be shocked if we werr 8-8 7-9? After starting 5-3 I'm not satisfied. NO sir Marrone has not done a good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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