dwight in philly Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) Mike Sheppard, 2001 (under Williams) Kevin Gilbride, 2002–03 (under Williams) Tom Clements, 2004–05 (under Mularkey) Steve Fairchild, 2006–2007 (under Jauron) Turk Schonert, 2008 (under Jauron) Alex Van Pelt, 2009 (under Jauron) Curtis Modkins, 2010–2012 (under Gailey) Nathaniel Hackett, 2013– (under Marrone) we B word and moan about hackett, but it seems nothing has changed since greggo was hired.. ( naturally gilbride leaves then wins a SB with the giants.. !!!!) Edited November 15, 2014 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 you forgot to include the players, the rest of the coaches and the management. oh, also sully and schopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 It's the fans fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) It's the fans fault! the point was that we have not really seen a change that we as fans have embraced .. same old same old.. not complaining about the fans.. jeez.. Edited November 15, 2014 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Mike Sheppard, 2001 (under Williams) Kevin Gilbride, 2002–03 (under Williams) Tom Clements, 2004–05 (under Mularkey) Steve Fairchild, 2006–2007 (under Jauron) Turk Schonert, 2008 (under Jauron) Alex Van Pelt, 2009 (under Jauron) Curtis Modkins, 2010–2012 (under Gailey) Nathaniel Hackett, 2013– (under Marrone)fa we B word and moan about hackett, but it seems nothing has changed since greggo was hired.. ( naturally gilbride leaves then wins a SB with the giants.. !!!!) He won a SB with the Giants because he had a good qb. It doesn't matter who your OC is or what your philosophical approach is. If you don't have an adequate qb you r offense will be ineffective. When your organization relies on qbs such as Kolb, Fitz, Tuel, Orton and a very young and ill-equipped qb such as EJ the outcome is predictable. This team is not going anywhere meaningful until there is a credible player taking the snaps. This year is another squandered season among a generation of wasted seasons because the caliber of our starting qb is insufficient. And the beat goes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 He won a SB with the Giants because he had a good qb. It doesn't matter who your OC is or what your philosophical approach is. If you don't have an adequate qb you r offense will be ineffective. When your organization relies on qbs such as Kolb, Fitz, Tuel, Orton and a very young and ill-equipped qb such as EJ the outcome is predictable. This team is not going anywhere meaningful until there is a credible player taking the snaps. This year is another squandered season among a generation of wasted seasons because the caliber of our starting qb is insufficient. And the beat goes on! i agree.. but hackett does seem to fit the mold of OC's who have failed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 i agree.. but hackett does seem to fit the mold of OC's who have failed here. They have failed here for the simple reason that they have had less talent to work with. There is no doubt that this franchise has not been staffed with top shelf coaches. What up and coming coach would want to join this long term failed franchise if there were other options. Collectively our talent level has ranked in the vicinity of the lower third. It doesn't matter how smart and innovative your OC is. If your qb can't competently execute the plays, especially the pass plays, then you are going to have more failures than successes. When you have pedestrian qbs such as Fitz, Kolb, Thad Lewis, Tuel and EJ what's in your playbook really doesn't matter. Talent trumps everything. No coach is going to elevate the play of a pedestrian qb to the point that it will make a significant difference. Gilbride was harshly criticized as an OC when he was with the Bills. He wasn't the main problem with our lagging offense because he demonstrated that he can run a successful offense and be part of a SB winning operation with a good qb. Unless the standard of qb play is elevated to the level of being average the Bills will continue to be out of the running before Thanksgiving arrives. When your team has been out of the playoffs for 15 consecutive years and has a losing record for 9 out of ten years and the same problematic qb issue is not fixed then there should be no surprise that the same outcome continues to happen again, and again, and again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Sad when kill-drive is the best guy on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Don't forget the exodus of good players in that entire era. For the most part we're doing a good job keeping talented players. The Bills need to achieve on offense what they did with Schwartz on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Curtis Modkins shouldn't get credit as being an OC. He was a glorified RB coach with an insignificant OC title. The offense and play calling was all Chan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 QB has been the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 QB has been the problem I agree. Chan was a very good OC given the talent he had. Fitz as QB, D Nelson, D Jones, and S Johnson as the top receivers. They actually did well given the talent with a defense that was worst in league every year. But it's the players. The fans ran Gilbride out of town and he wins two SB rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The coaching situation over the last 14 years has been a the biggest problem, no question. Its not just about the bad coaching tho, as Its also been the QB's & O line talent, as there must be 50+ different players in and out on that line since 2000, and at least 20 QB's. Fix the coaching situation with people smart enough to know a good QB or good lineman from bad one, and it shouldn't take six games into the season to see the difference. ie Colin Brown, Cornell Green, Erik Pears, Cyril Richardson. The Bills have been very hesitant to draft QB's & O line players in the first round the last decade.Only Losman & EJ. Yet, when the Bills made a first round pick on Jim Kelly, Will Wolford, Jim Ritcher, Ruben Brown they all played over 10 years in the NFL. Even the current #1 pick for the O line in Eric Wood as been with the team since he was drafted in 2009, six years now. The Bills philosophy is that using a first round pick on the O line is a wasted pick, as O line players can be found in the later round. I can recall hearing that old goober Buddy Nix spewing words like " you can always take a OT and move him inside to OG". Yea, that worked with Pears Then I kept hearing OG's are a dime a dozen. You can find OG's in rounds after round three. I find that highly amusing considering that the Bills haven had much success in finding players at any position past the third round the last decade. Can anyone at OBD finally understand the concept that "as the O line goes, so goes the entire offense" The Bills have been bad the last 14 years because they don't want to put the effort into building a top offensive line. Until someone in the front office understands that this current scouting dept / FO hasn't the first clue on how to evaluate O line talent, and the only way they are going to build a decent unit is to expend top draft picks to do so. Its not all just about the coaching or QB, as no QB can win behind a bad O line. You can't run the ball successfully to control the line of scrimmage or clock with a bad line. This year the Bills have the worst O line in the league. The team will continue to get QB's concussed, injured, have them shell shocked, and hearing / seeing phantom sackers until they build a top line. This team has been so intent on drafting DB's, RB's, WR's with those #1 picks, and where has it gotten them. Hire a top head coach and everything else will follow. Bill Cowher, Jim Harbaugh, or even lure Marty S out of retirement. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 ^ Excellent Post ^ Right before Spiller was drafted, I kept telling all my co-workers that if the Bills draft somebody who weighs less than 300 lbs, they will have drafted the wrong guy. I like Spiller, but he doesn't weigh more than 300 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't remember Chan's offense as being bad. In hindsight, it was pretty good. We were mostly held back by our horrible defense. Sure, we had Fitz, but that's telling in itself. If Chan was running our offense now, we would be a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't remember Chan's offense as being bad. In hindsight, it was pretty good. We were mostly held back by our horrible defense. Sure, we had Fitz, but that's telling in itself. If Chan was running our offense now, we would be a playoff team. Why its so hard for some coaches, but in todays game with the rules, you put as many WRs on the field as possible. Spread formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Orton, EJ, Tuel ... Name a worse QB situation in the NFL. Tampa Bay with Glennon and McCown and NY Jets with Smith and Vick come close. Give the team back to EJ. They have to know what he can do when the games may still mean something for at least the next week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't remember Chan's offense as being bad. In hindsight, it was pretty good. We were mostly held back by our horrible defense. Sure, we had Fitz, but that's telling in itself. If Chan was running our offense now, we would be a playoff team. They were exciting as Fitz is a gunslinger vs Trent who was a WCO product out of Stanford, and had a tendency to dump it off a lot. 2010 PF 28th- Yards-25th... 519 pass attempts vs 401 rush attempts Fitz 3000 yards 2011 PF 14th- yards-14th... 578 pass attempts vs 391 rush attempts Fitz 3832 yards 2012 PF 21st- yards -19th...511 pass attempts vs 442 rush attempts Fitz 3400 yards Chan's offense was predicated on smoke and mirrors. Gailey understood the limitations of his O line players, and therefore set up a quick strike, short pass offense that basically negated a heavy pass rush because Fitz was able to get the ball out so quickly. He also had only one solid WR in Stevie Johnson, and passed more mostly because the O line sucked, and he knew he couldn't make a 3rd and short by running. Last year when the team moved on to EJ over Fitz the ball simply didn't come out as quickly as it had in the past, and while the new offensive coordinator also wanted to run a fast paced offense. He, the GM, and the entire offensive staff failed to understand just how bad the LG situation was going to be once Andy Levitre left or even the RG situation. Looking at this past draft it looks like nobody in the entire org has the slightest clue on how to evaluate O line talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Mike Sheppard, 2001 (under Williams) Kevin Gilbride, 2002–03 (under Williams) Tom Clements, 2004–05 (under Mularkey) Steve Fairchild, 2006–2007 (under Jauron) Turk Schonert, 2008 (under Jauron) Alex Van Pelt, 2009 (under Jauron) Curtis Modkins, 2010–2012 (under Gailey) Nathaniel Hackett, 2013– (under Marrone) we B word and moan about hackett, but it seems nothing has changed since greggo was hired.. ( naturally gilbride leaves then wins a SB with the giants.. !!!!) I Think Perry Fewell has a ring with the G-Men as well. Also, remember someone named Dave Wannstedt? No issues there eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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