Dragonborn10 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton was terrible at the worst times yesterday. He was terrible against Detroit and New England as well. He played great against the Jets and mediocre against Minnesota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fourth and 10 at the KC 15, we're down 4 points, 2:32 left in the game, Buffalo has all of its timeouts remaining. Go for it? Are you kidding? If you take the FG and get a stop, you only need to get to the 35 or so for a chance at a game-winning FG with the wind at your back. I haven't seen anything on this in the news coverage, but that may have been the worst game management decision since we punted from the 32 against the Patriots a few years back. This has to be the most intelligent, and level headed thread / post so far about the game. Its not like Carpenter didn't already make a 58 yarder this year, and the defense had been brilliant all game holding the Chiefs, and their vaunted run game to only 250 yards, Alex Smith 17/29 177 yards, NO TD's, and SIX sacks. Not only that the Bills offenses biggest weakness has been in the red zone all season, and just because the QB had a magical last second 4th down TD against the vikings. Doesn't mean he can magically do that every game. This team needs to fix their god awful red zone offense, and fix the stupid penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I can see both sides of the argument of going for it vs. kicking the FG. The biggest problem I have is throwing to the end zone on each of the four downs instead of throwing in the field of play or running the ball. IMO, they should have focused on getting another 1st down before worrying about getting a TD in that scenario. It's a damn shame that Orton missed the wide open Hogan on 3rd and 10 so that this wouldn't have been a topic for discussion. absolutely. Those complaining about the playcalling have to factor in that the third down playcall should have put them ahead. Wide open and relatively easy throw. It just didn't get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 He was terrible against Detroit and New England as well. He played great against the Jets and mediocre against Minnesota. Terrible as in Geno Smith was against Buffalo , as was Brady against the Chiefs , as EJ was against the Texans , as Phillip Rivers was against Miami Leave Orton out of this until he has 3+ turnovers. This team has had red zone problems long before Orton got the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 off target Leave Orton out of this until he has 3+ turnovers. This team has had red zone problems long before Orton got the start. Do you recall when Orton was first inserted his fans were bragging about his very good red zone %? I do, Now 3 and 4 weeks later (after game film) the #'s are getting progressively worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If they kicked a field goal there, I would have walked out of the stadium. No way you don't go for the win when this team has sucked for more than a decade. 10 yards vs banking on a 3 and out, marching back down to field goal range and kicking it?! Which one of those two scenarios sounds more difficult? Scenario 3 in which you don't convert 4th down and instead of marching down the field in field goal range you have to march to the end zone. Something our offense has proven to my be capable of on a regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Now 3 and 4 weeks later (after game film) the #'s are getting progressively worse. Sure they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Sammy was also wide open on the 4th down play. Orton throw it short when Sammy was open over the top. Play calling worked, but the execution wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I dont mind Marrone going for it there. What I mind is throwing to the end zone when they should have tried for the first down first!. Why were there no quick slant routes on that series of downs, no runs. That was the stupid playcalling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) How many TD's did the Offense score from the Red Zone yesterday GG? How many attempts were passes vs runs? Was it 4 attempts only 2 FG's? Score #1 was a Chris Hogan 25 Yd pass (not red zone play), punt, punt, punt, FG, punt, long march fumble, long march FG, punt, punt, downs, throw away fumble with no time left http://scores.espn.g...ameId=400554332 Edited November 10, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 How many TD's did the Offense score from the Red Zone yesterday GG? How many attempts were passes vs runs? Was it 4 attempts only 2 FG's? Score #1 was a Chris Hogan 25 Yd pass (not red zone play), punt, punt, punt, FG, punt, long march fumble, long march FG, punt, punt, downs, throw away fumble with no time left http://scores.espn.g...ameId=400554332 Again, no one is saying that Orton had a good game yesterday. Two better thrown passes would have made a difference. But to ignore that the Bills have played better offensively as a team with him as QB is the height of idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Again, no one is saying that Orton had a good game yesterday. Two better thrown passes would have made a difference. But to ignore that the Bills have played better offensively as a team with him as QB is the height of idiocy. You see GG, THAT is the issue. I have said they are slightly better, but the Musketeers pretend I never said that. Then the arguing back and forth draws you and others in believing the same. the Musketeers with whom I am trying to speak are blaming others while minimizing the blame on Kyle. The game was in his hands and he FAILED to deliver on the mark! read the news paper article http://auburnpub.com...cc6cc54ee5.html The Bills ....... the missed opportunity at the game when Buffalo started at the Chiefs' 25-yard-line. The Bills advanced to the 15-yard-line, but Orton threw four passes into the end zone that were off the mark. Had one of them been on the mark we wouldn't be here discussing 0 for 4 in the RZ wrt TD's. Edited November 10, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You see GG, THAT is the issue. I have said they are slightly better, but the Musketeers pretend I never said that. Then the arguing back and forth draws you and others in believing the same. the Musketeers with whom I am trying to speak are blaming others while minimizing the blame on Kyle. The game was in his hands and he FAILED to deliver on the mark! read the news paper article http://auburnpub.com...cc6cc54ee5.html The Bills ....... the missed opportunity at the game when Buffalo started at the Chiefs' 25-yard-line. The Bills advanced to the 15-yard-line, but Orton threw four passes into the end zone that were off the mark. Had one of them been on the mark we wouldn't be here discussing 0 for 4 in the RZ wrt TD's. And as I said before, there were about a dozen plays that if executed properly, likely lead to a Bills win. It's moronic to blame a single player for the loss. It was truly a team wide collapse. BTW, as long as we're playing this game, how many times has EJ thrown into the EZ in the past year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan since '64 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 http://espn.go.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/8846/chiefs-benefitted-from-bills-late-game-strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fourth and 10 at the KC 15, we're down 4 points, 2:32 left in the game, Buffalo has all of its timeouts remaining. Go for it? Are you kidding? If you take the FG and get a stop, you only need to get to the 35 or so for a chance at a game-winning FG with the wind at your back. I haven't seen anything on this in the news coverage, but that may have been the worst game management decision since we punted from the 32 against the Patriots a few years back. Except we didn't stop them after they took over on downs. Also the fact that they would have had a much different strategy protecting only a one point lead opposed to 4 pts. There is also the possibility that the Bills try an onsides kick and do not recover. KCs field position would probably be better in that scenario too. Just too many variables. The real atrocity was what led up to being in a 4 th and 10 when it in all likelihood should have been a first and goal situation if we played our cards right. You see GG, THAT is the issue. I have said they are slightly better, but the Musketeers pretend I never said that. Then the arguing back and forth draws you and others in believing the same. the Musketeers with whom I am trying to speak are blaming others while minimizing the blame on Kyle. The game was in his hands and he FAILED to deliver on the mark! read the news paper article http://auburnpub.com...cc6cc54ee5.html The Bills ....... the missed opportunity at the game when Buffalo started at the Chiefs' 25-yard-line. The Bills advanced to the 15-yard-line, but Orton threw four passes into the end zone that were off the mark. Had one of them been on the mark we wouldn't be here discussing 0 for 4 in the RZ wrt TD's. I blame the OC for putting the whole game in Ortons hands in that situation. Orton was off the mark most of the day and the Bills could easily have scored running easier plays to execute than what he called. It was clear since the 2 nd quarter that Orton wasn't going to be doing any Peyton Manning impressions yesterday. Yes, if Orton been on the mark.. But you just sensed he wouldn't be. OC needs to sense that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fourth and 10 at the KC 15, we're down 4 points, 2:32 left in the game, Buffalo has all of its timeouts remaining. Go for it? Are you kidding? If you take the FG and get a stop, you only need to get to the 35 or so for a chance at a game-winning FG with the wind at your back. I haven't seen anything on this in the news coverage, but that may have been the worst game management decision since we punted from the 32 against the Patriots a few years back. I thought this was handled badly all the way around........ Even if they are going to go for it...they are defending the end zone here......why not try to get the 1st down (I be we could have gotten it underneath the coverage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) http://espn.go.com/b...e-game-strategy In the last 10 seasons, teams have attempted to convert a fourth down with between 8 and 12 yards to go in the fourth quarter or overtime 559 times. They got the first down or touchdown on 214 of those plays, a success rate of 38.3 percent. ESPN Stats and Info also calculated that by making the field goal, Buffalo’s statistical win probability was 38.1 percent. So basically they played the odds that were .2 % difference and was the higher likelihood of winning. My only issue was that they could have run for or passed for a first down and then had a few more shots at the endzone. For those saying they should have kicked the field goal look at what happened at that end of the game. They had 16 seconds left from the to get in field goal range and needed to stop the clock after the KC possession. It was not going to happen. Edited November 10, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 http://espn.go.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/8846/chiefs-benefitted-from-bills-late-game-strategy Thanks for the link, which shows that it was pretty much a toss up. I like what Marrrone did for the simple reason that i hate the idea of giving the ball back to the Chiefs without using every opportunity to score a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Could not agree more, OP. Play the percentages and take the 3 points, pin the Chiefs at the 20 and put your D on the field with 3 TOs + the 2 minute warning. Get the ball back and then kick another 3 and win. I made this suggestion and the guy in front of me kept turning around and shouting NO at me! I would be good for going for it, if was closer than 4th and ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton was not throwing accurately at the end, and I think the mistake was putting the game in his hands at that moment. I agree there was no reason not to try a couple of shorter routes or runs, at least to get the first down. But the larger question is, what kind of clock management was that? Four passes, if you're successful you get 3 point lead and leave over 3 minutes of the 4th quarter for Smith to work with. If the idea is to get a TD or bust on that drive, use up the clock! The largest question is, FG or pass on 4th down. I think the FG is the smart play. Carpenter is lights out, the wind was at his back. If all they needed was another FG, all the Bills needed to do was get to the Chiefs 40, or maybe not that far, and Carpenter could do the rest. Even starting with only 25 seconds or whatever they had, they could have made that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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