PlayoffsPlease Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Six Teams in the AFC make the playoffs, the Bills do not have top 6 talent and the do not have top 6 coaching, The have the advantage of two crappy conference foes, but barring a Patriots collapse the playoff berths are unlikely. Bills fans look like idiots for continuing to post how talented the roster is. These Bills and no one else in the NFL will be playing the 2008 Bills this year. It is completing meaningless too talk about how much the roster is "improved". The majority of other NFL teams have better players. Its not complicated. For example in the delusions world of Bills fans we grabbed a "top end WR" for a 6th round draft pick. The reality is he isn't a good enough football player to make the Bills 46 man roster every week. He is a marginal WR3/4 on most teams. This is why he went for a 6th round draft pick. The Bills probably couldn't get that for him now. Example 2. Robert Woods 74 players have more yards receiving this year than Woods. including 11 players who are second year players or rookies. Players from his draft class playing better than woods this year include Keenan Allen and Markus Wheaton. No one is projecting super bowl for the Steelers because of the uber talented Markus Wheaton. Woods is a decent player. One of the top 74 receivers in the league, but its not like we stole him, using a second round pick. We are getting at best average production from that position. Example 3. Sammy Watkins - fine player. No actual evidence that he is going to have more impact on the league than Kelvin Benjamin or Brandin Cooks or Odell Beckham or Marqis Lee. Definitely not out producing his draft position. All in all, this not a highly talented group of receivers. About average for the NFL at best. Oline is truly horrible. Eric Woods and Cordy Glenn are mid-tier among NFL teams. EVeryone else is below average. Spiller is just not the talent we imagine him to be. Jackson is great "for his age" together there are probably 10-12 running back tandems in the league who are more talented. San Diego wouldn't trade UB's Branden Oliver even up for either one of them, and he is third on their depth chart. Same analysis holds on the defensive side of the Ball. Kyle, Mario and Marcell are the only three above average players for their position on defense. All in all, what you are watching each week is average talent led by a below average QB and coached by below average coaches. This is NOT an extremely talented team being held back by coaching or QB play. /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The Bills have a good too very good long snapper. That's all that matters, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well, hey there Sunshine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well, you focus on WR. I may be having a brain fart but I do not know of any units in the league that are significantly better then our unit. And, no one here imagines Spiller to be more talented, well, then anything. He is a limited offensive production and glorified special teamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I wish Keenan Allen was having a good year! He's on my fantasy team and he has done nothing. Finally benched him. SD is wasting his talent. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I wish Keenan Allen was having a good year! He's on my fantasy team and he has done nothing. Finally benched him. SD is wasting his talent. Or something. Drop him and pick up Robert woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'd quibble with a few things at the margin. But I agree with the overall theme of the OP. During the Patriots game, Brady outplayed Orton. (Which you'd expect, given the fact that Brady looked like his usual self.) But the Patriots' non-quarterbacks as a group outplayed the Bills' non-quarterbacks as a group. If the Bills' roster was supposed to be bursting with talent at the non-quarterback positions, that bursting sure wasn't evident in the Patriots game. The offensive line couldn't pass protect. Neither could it run block. But other than those two things, its play was just fine. The Bills' defense couldn't stop the Patriots at all in the second half; and sometimes not in the first half either. If these problems were just a one-time thing, I'd give the team a mulligan. But no. We knew the offensive line was an issue going into this game. We knew the secondary was an issue. And like the OP pointed out, a number of our supposedly "good" players are overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The Bills have a good too very good long snapper. That's all that matters, Our kickoff specialist is second to none! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 After reading the OP's analysis, it leaves one to wonder how we're 3-3 and managed to beat the bears, lions, and dolphins - teams which im sure the OP would argue are worlds better in the talent department. Players with brandon marshall, cutler, stafford, calvin johnson and reggie bush and wallace. All that talent we seem to lack. Sigh. At least save the gloom for when we're 3-12 going into week 17 if thats how you really feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well, you focus on WR. I may be having a brain fart but I do not know of any units in the league that are significantly better then our unit. And, no one here imagines Spiller to be more talented, well, then anything. He is a limited offensive production and glorified special teamer. I think I might be inclined to take Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker, Emmanuel Sanders, Jacob Tamme. In fact, I'd trade our whole lot of WRs for the 2 Thomases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 An interesting measure of talent. Why even make a post like this? You say "Bills fans" as if you are not one of them. This board is for Bills fans, last I heard. In any case, how on earth do stats measure a situation where good talent is being misused by the coaching staff? Finally, I wouldn't trade Fred Jackson for any running back in the NFL for a lot of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I think I might be inclined to take Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas, Wes Welker, Emmanuel Sanders, Jacob Tamme. In fact, I'd trade our whole lot of WRs for the 2 Thomases. I'll give you that one but I'll remind you that Peyton Manning is in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 We have a really good set of WR's. Watkins, Woods, and if he stays with the team Williams. Most teams in the NFL would love to have that trio. The problem is they haven't had a QB good enough to consistently give them the ball. They've had one that misses that's so inaccurate he'd probably miss the ground if he spiked the ball and one that can maybe get the ball in their general vicinity from time to time. We have talent we just don't have a good enough QB to lead that talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) We have a really good set of WR's. Watkins, Woods, and if he stays with the team Williams. Most teams in the NFL would love to have that trio. The problem is they haven't had a QB good enough to consistently give them the ball. They've had one that misses that's so inaccurate he'd probably miss the ground if he spiked the ball and one that can maybe get the ball in their general vicinity from time to time. We have talent we just don't have a good enough QB to lead that talent. The above criticism of Bills' QB play is valid for all of last season and the first four games of this season. But the Bills should expect reasonably solid QB play going forward, assuming Orton stays healthy. The biggest current obstacle to accurately evaluating the WRs isn't the quarterback. It's the offensive line. If, due to a lack of pass protection, Orton has to dump the ball off short most of the time, his WRs won't get the opportunities they should. That will skew their numbers downward, making them look worse than they really are. However you slice it, the benching of Mike Williams has to be a concern. Hopefully it was just for one game. But there are any number of players Marrone could have sat, if the goal was just to get an extra body out there on special teams. I don't think Marrone makes that move unless he doesn't see a huge difference between Williams' play and Hogan's. Edited October 16, 2014 by Orton's Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Number 1 rush D in the league. Not sure number but we're still top 5 in sacks. Find 3 better guys on any AFC teams secondary better than Gilmore Aaron Williams and Corey Graham. Roby and McKelvin not too shabby either. Brad-ham is a monster. Rivers is ok. Spikes is a top 10 MLB vs the run. And Preston Brown has been good. The D line is a top 5 D line. Don't even include the defense in your analysis of the supposed weak talent on the roster. We're fine on D. Of the top 6 in the AFC, who's D is better? The Broncos? The offense---led by Marrackett is a disaster. I believe it's issues are 70 percent coaching. Maybe more.... Edited October 16, 2014 by Big Blitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Let's rundown the offense's progression over the last 2 seasons under this regime. This is where the coaching staff has been a complete joke: 1). Our WR's last year were terrible. 13 had his worst season. We essentially fire the WR coach. We bring in Big Mike to help.....now he sucks and is inactive. Woods is showing no signs of improvement. And Roscoe Goodwin has done nothing. 2.) The oline is a disaster. So Marrackett's plan was to draft big guys. Kwanjo is currently a bust. Cyril is a work (long work) in progress. Henderson has gotten worse as the season goes on. Urbik is no longer decent/good. We moved Pears to Guard and it's been a debacle. The guy they signed to start at LG who was always average at best, is out. 3.) Spiller. Completely lost. Why did we trade for Bryce Brown exactly. 4.) Our 1st pick of the 2013 has now lost his job 4 games in. Both his backups were cut in August. And our current starter (who I believe will be fine) was at home all summer. 5.) To address TE bc Chandler can't block and he's limited as a mediocre threat....we bring in Mr.Glass Tony Moeki. He stuck around long enough for a cup of coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) CJ Spiller is VERY talented. He is just not a great player. Edited October 16, 2014 by Big C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Let's rundown the offense's progression over the last 2 seasons under this regime. This is where the coaching staff has been a complete joke: 1). Our WR's last year were terrible. 13 had his worst season. We essentially fire the WR coach. We bring in Big Mike to help.....now he sucks and is inactive. Woods is showing no signs of improvement. And Roscoe Goodwin has done nothing. 2.) The oline is a disaster. So Marrackett's plan was to draft big guys. Kwanjo is currently a bust. Cyril is a work (long work) in progress. Henderson has gotten worse as the season goes on. Urbik is no longer decent/good. We moved Pears to Guard and it's been a debacle. The guy they signed to start at LG who was always average at best, is out. 3.) Spiller. Completely lost. Why did we trade for Bryce Brown exactly. 4.) Our 1st pick of the 2013 has now lost his job 4 games in. Both his backups were cut in August. And our current starter (who I believe will be fine) was at home all summer. 5.) To address TE bc Chandler can't block and he's limited as a mediocre threat....we bring in Mr.Glass Tony Moeki. He stuck around long enough for a cup of coffee. I tend to agree with your analysis of the offense more so than the defense. I did not like what I saw of the defense in the second half of the Patriots game! Zero stops at all in the second half, unless you want to count holding the Patriots to a FG as a stop. Which the defense did only once in the second half--all other second half Patriots drives resulted in touchdowns. Admittedly, the Patriots had 12 men on the field at all times. (The refs collectively count as an additional Patriots player.) But the defense should have been able to manage a stop or two even despite that. The fact it didn't tells me either that good players had a bad day; or that some of the people we thought were good aren't all they're cracked up to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Should Duke Williams or McKelvin ever be covering Gronk? And who was responsible for LaFell going off? Aaron Williams being out--it matters. And scheme. Not a good day for the D or its coaches. But I'm not going to question the talent on the D. FWIW I think that ridiculous Spiller fumble before half had a HUGE impact on the momentum going into the 2nd half. Then it all fell apart. Hoodie and Co made their adjustments and our coaches got schooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The Bills have been drafting poorly for 15 or so years and they have to over pay to get anyone with talent to come to Buffalo. Changing coaches and schemes every three years doesn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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