FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah, you know, or CJ could learn to hit the holes the offense is creating. I'm not saying your wrong, just like building a giant tower to the moon could have also been a means to reach it. Hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 no one is saying never do it - just that the split should be skewed differently to maximize his talents. I used the example up thread of 225 touches with 65 between the tackles, 100 on the perimeter, and 60 in the passing game instead of 50% of his carries being behind the guards. from there we can also layer in various misdirections like sammy coming around the end (which i saw once in the first half but i think sammy was walking by the time he got to the backfield)..... what difference is his official game day position at that point? we in fact have guys with special physical talents that dont fit the traditional molds. its ok to get outside the box. regardless of his position, we can be creative and he doesnt have to follow the stereotypical roles to the letter. I agree you should game plan around your players' strengths but you also have to rely on them to be proficient in the basics too and this has been a problem for CJ his whole career. This isn't a new problem that arrived when Hackett and Marrone got here, That is more my point, I completely understand what you are saying but as a weapon the opposition needs to know he is a threat to do the conventional run too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I agree you should game plan around your players' strengths but you also have to rely on them to be proficient in the basics too and this has been a problem for CJ his whole career. This isn't a new problem that arrived when Hackett and Marrone got here, That is more my point, I completely understand what you are saying but as a weapon the opposition needs to know he is a threat to do the conventional run too. /thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The guy was 7th in rushing yards while only 22nd in carries one season And 21st in carries while hitting 15th in yardage another year.... Let's not act like handing him the ball has been a long term lesson in consistent failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Why are you removing games as if they didn't happen? Or combining stats. I gave you both Spiller and FJs yards per carry for each game, there's no need to pick 5 games and say well he's doing this in the last 5 games. He's splitting carries with CJ who BTW has had more carries. He had a good YPC against Houston and Detroit, who had the #1 rush defense at that point. Miami FJ didn't have a great game, but if your argument is that Hacketts run plays aren't immaginitive, CJ actually had a good day. And they still rushed for over 100 yards as a team. Not sure why you bring up the second stat of CJ, Anthony and FJ. If you take aways Fred's longest run of the year, 38 yards, he's still averaging a pretty good 3.7 YPC. Also of that 132 yards Boobie and CJ had the bulk of the yards. So again I don't see the relevance of that stat. EDIT: Btw 3.6 isn't as horrible as you make it seem. It's enough for a 1st down on 3 carries. If it was below 3.3, maybe you have an argument. Why? Because that's what its been after the Chicago game...3.6 ypc and about 35 yards per game. By the same token, I don't know why you keep excluding the NE game. More importantly, if you think 3.6 ypc is good, fine or whatever, I don't know what to say.. Even more importantly, if you think the best the Bills RB's good for is to run into the middle of a pile on every play....well damn. This running game would be sooo much better with even a touch of imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The guy was 7th in rushing yards while only 22nd in carries one season And 21st in carries while hitting 15th in yardage another year.... Let's not act like handing him the ball has been a long term lesson in consistent failure. I thought he was misused last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Whenever you criticize Hackett, someone insults you and says "why aren't you an NFL coach?". Implying you don't know anything. Well it does not take the skills and knowledge of a NFL PRO coach to see that Hackett refuses to believe that good coaches tailor their playbook and their calls to use the players they have to maximize their strengths and abilities and mask their weaknesses. As others on the site have mentioned, he continues to try to force square pegs into round holes. Hackett's downfall is his arrogance, ego and inflexability to accept that he can not make square pegs fit round holes even after he fails to do so repeatedly. He is not an unintelligent man, he just refuses to change. He is too arrogent and stubborn to adapt and change. He believes if he just keeps trying over and over again, the results will somehow change in his favor. They won't. And Marrone backs him. The whole coaching staff seems infected with a sense of arrogance and inflexability, even Schwartz is the same way, he just has better players that mask his weaknesses and bad decisions. They all seem to believe that they know better than anyone else, reguardless of the results of their decisions. The Bills have the players with enough talent this year to at least make the playoffs, but the coaching staff is actually holding them back. Totally agree. Its like the coached have little man syndrome, but, they aren't little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Next year, when Hackett is coaching High School or at a low level college & Spiller is tearing it up for another team, this thread will be hilarious. Why think Chip Kelly has targeted players like Spiller & Manuel? Do some of you honestly believe Spiller won't used much more effectively on Philly? Great coaches find way to get the most out of their talent. Hackett runs his talent up the middle on 1st down over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Next year, when Hackett is coaching High School or at a low level college & Spiller is tearing it up for another team, this thread will be hilarious. Why think Chip Kelly has targeted players like Spiller & Manuel? Do some of you honestly believe Spiller won't used much more effectively on Philly? Great coaches find way to get the most out of their talent. Hackett runs his talent up the middle on 1st down over and over again. Chip Kelly slowly wound up his offense in Philly as the QBs got comfortable with it. Can you imagine EJ running Kelly's offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I thought he was misused last year? Imagine what I think he's capable of if used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Chip Kelly slowly wound up his offense in Philly as the QBs got comfortable with it. Can you imagine EJ running Kelly's offense? Check out Foles' rookie year. Also check out how Mark Sanchez looked this preseason (Compare Sanchez and Manuel's stats as well). There was no secret that the Eagles were targeting EJ. Players have progressed under Kelly. McCoy was bad the year before Kelly. Riley the Racist was basically a STer and had like 10 tds. What players on our offense have progress under the new coaches? If no players are progressing, who should get the blame? Trust me, I have blaming coaches normally. But we aren't talking about coaches with amazing offensive background. We have a guy who was a first time OC for a very average Syracuse team. Maybe Hackett will improve in time but IMO, he is a major reason behind the failings of this offense. Can we point to one creative thing we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Next year, when Hackett is coaching High School or at a low level college & Spiller is tearing it up for another team, this thread will be hilarious. Why think Chip Kelly has targeted players like Spiller & Manuel? Do some of you honestly believe Spiller won't used much more effectively on Philly? Great coaches find way to get the most out of their talent. Hackett runs his talent up the middle on 1st down over and over again. Spiller tearing it up? Doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 If you're referring to my comment, please read the full post. The square peg in a round hole is related to Spiller's role in this offense and Spiller's inability to be anything but a highly situational player. NO, I was not refering to your post in this thread. More than one poster has mentioned the square peg , round hole anology in various Hackett related threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 As I am reading through this thread, I come away with the view that both Hackett and Spiller are problems. Spiller is a guy who needs to be put in a position to do well-- i.e., he can't create his own yards, like most good RB's do. And Hackett doesn't realize that and isn't creative enough to position Spiller to basically not screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 My issue with the whole thing is we seem to be FORCING THE ISSUE when it comes to the between the tackles running its like "just keep doing it....give it time....and eventually it will work" Well....no it wont because we dont have the right personell to force it to work And so much for analytics and quality control, which was Hackett's prior role with the Bills. Let's see, we've run this play at the start the game for 22 games and every timer Spiller runs it he loses yardage. Hmm!! It's a good play, let's try it again next game. Doh!! You'd think they could look at how New Orleans first used Reggie Bush and later Sproles with much success to figure out how to use Spiller. Or look at how Gailey used him in 2012. Aaarrgghh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Just read the All 22 review - add misusing Sammy Watkins to the overt ineptitude on display by Hackett. Can we just put the pillow on this guy now and snuff him out already? He's obviously out of his league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Check out Foles' rookie year. Also check out how Mark Sanchez looked this preseason (Compare Sanchez and Manuel's stats as well). There was no secret that the Eagles were targeting EJ. Players have progressed under Kelly. McCoy was bad the year before Kelly. Riley the Racist was basically a STer and had like 10 tds. What players on our offense have progress under the new coaches? If no players are progressing, who should get the blame? Trust me, I have blaming coaches normally. But we aren't talking about coaches with amazing offensive background. We have a guy who was a first time OC for a very average Syracuse team. Maybe Hackett will improve in time but IMO, he is a major reason behind the failings of this offense. Can we point to one creative thing we do? I am not going to go out of my way to defend this coaching staff, because they all made puzzling decisions to date. But it's also fool-hearty to blame Spiller's regression or EJ's inability to overcome his ineptness solely on them. Even if we go back to CJ's break out year, he got there by default after FJ's injury as Chan was deathly afraid to use him as a feature back. So if there's one major fault by Hackett in utilizing Spiller, it's lining him up solo in the backfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) As I am reading through this thread, I come away with the view that both Hackett and Spiller are problems. Spiller is a guy who needs to be put in a position to do well-- i.e., he can't create his own yards, like most good RB's do. And Hackett doesn't realize that and isn't creative enough to position Spiller to basically not screw up. Generally id agree, but add a slight disclaimer that if you are viewing spiller through the lens of old school traditional prototype running back its wrong from the get go. He can create yards but it's not going to be by squeezing into a tight space and driving til the pile falls forward. If you ask him to be a ground and pound guy he's not going to grind out yards. If you can find him 1-1 match ups with space to move he will win them more often than most backs. Edited October 15, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Generally if agree, but add a slight disclaimer that if you are viewing spiller through the lens of old school traditional prototype running back its wrong from the get go. He can create yards but it's not going to be by squeezing into a tight space and driving til the pile falls forward. If you ask him to be a ground and pound guy he's not going to grind out yards. If you can find him 1-1 match ups with space to move he will win them more often than most backs. What RB's won't win 1-1 matchups in space? Besides Tolbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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