Hackett not properly using Spiller & Jackson

[The Big Cat]

That's a great analysis of one game, but FJ is averaging 4.4 YPC for the year.

 

He averaged 4.9 against against a very good Detroit defense. CJ averaged 0.8 on the same number of attempts. Against Houston FJ averaged 4.7, CJ averaged 4. Against San Diego FJ averaged 5.6, CJ averaged 2.5. Against Miami FJ averaged 2.0, CJ averaged 5.7. And finally against Chicago FJ averaged 9.5 while CJ averaged 3.8.

 

You see what I'm getting at? Your comment about "others doing well in this imaginative attack" maybe holds true for the Pats* game but it certainly doesn't for any others. FJ is doing just fine in it. That also tells me running up the middle, for the most part is working, except for with CJ.

 

It's as if nobody floating these hypotheses understands the concept of a "control group," in this case Fred.

[CountDorkula]

It's as if nobody floating these hypotheses understands the concept of a "control group," in this case Fred.

 

So you think this offense is fine as is and does not need to change?

[The Big Cat]

So you think this offense is fine as is and does not need to change?

 

 

That's a straw man.

[bobobonators]

 

 

That's a great analysis of one game, but FJ is averaging 4.4 YPC for the year.

 

He averaged 4.9 against against a very good Detroit defense. CJ averaged 0.8 on the same number of attempts. Against Houston FJ averaged 4.7, CJ averaged 4. Against San Diego FJ averaged 5.6, CJ averaged 2.5. Against Miami FJ averaged 2.0, CJ averaged 5.7. And finally against Chicago FJ averaged 9.5 while CJ averaged 3.8.

 

You see what I'm getting at? Your comment about "others doing well in this imaginative attack" maybe holds true for the Pats* game but it certainly doesn't for any others. FJ is doing just fine in it. That also tells me running up the middle, for the most part is working, except for with CJ.

 

Expecting Spiller to dominate running it up Woods butt much the same way Fred does doesnt address the premise that NH is misusing Spiller. And by misusing i dont mean spiller should never run it up the middle - he should and he NEEDS to do a better job. But when that is the ONLY thing we see spiller doing in this offense it falls on Hackett.

 

Not seeing spiller targeted frequently on screens or put in motion to line up at WR is a waste of a threat. You have an elite talent touch the ball a total of 6 times in a game thats embarrassingly bad.

[CookieG]

That's a great analysis of one game, but FJ is averaging 4.4 YPC for the year.

 

He averaged 4.9 against against a very good Detroit defense. CJ averaged 0.8 on the same number of attempts. Against Houston FJ averaged 4.7, CJ averaged 4. Against San Diego FJ averaged 5.6, CJ averaged 2.5. Against Miami FJ averaged 2.0, CJ averaged 5.7. And finally against Chicago FJ averaged 9.5 while CJ averaged 3.8.

 

You see what I'm getting at? Your comment about "others doing well in this imaginative attack" maybe holds true for the Pats* game but it certainly doesn't for any others. FJ is doing just fine in it. That also tells me running up the middle, for the most part is working, except for with CJ.

 

166 total rushing yards in the last 5 games is "doing just fine"? Because that's what he's gained since the Chicago game, with a total average of 3.6 ypc.

 

Had Jackson, Spiller and Boobie each not have kicked off long run in the first 2 games, (3 carries totalling 132 yards), this would be a bottom 5 rushing attack.

 

All is not well, sorry.

[The Big Cat]

166 total rushing yards in the last 5 games is "doing just fine"? Because that's what he's gained since the Chicago game, with a total average of 3.6 ypc.

 

Had Jackson, Spiller and Boobie each not have kicked off long run in the first 2 games, (3 carries totalling 132 yards), this would be a bottom 5 rushing attack.

 

All is not well, sorry.

 

This is why you look at ypc and not total yards.

[NoSaint]

 

 

This is why you look at ypc and not total yards.

 

what he was saying is the YPC arent good since about half time of week two.....

[FireChan]

 

 

166 total rushing yards in the last 5 games is "doing just fine"? Because that's what he's gained since the Chicago game, with a total average of 3.6 ypc.

 

Had Jackson, Spiller and Boobie each not have kicked off long run in the first 2 games, (3 carries totalling 132 yards), this would be a bottom 5 rushing attack.

 

All is not well, sorry.

 

Fred had 5 YPC against Detroit. Sorry.

 

 

 

what he was saying is the YPC arent good since about half time of week two.....

 

And he's wrong.

[CookieG]

This is why you look at ypc and not total yards.

 

OK...I'm looking...

 

and his ypc in the last 5 games total is 3.6.

 

.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Fred had 5 YPC against Detroit. Sorry.

 

 

 

And he's wrong.

 

without looking, im guessing that over the 5 game stretch that was likely his best and this week and miami brought it down considerably.

 

so hes probably right, just like you are with your stat..... you just are pointing at individual games and hes pointing at the total.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint

[A Dog Named Kelso]

The whole "He needs to get the ball in space", I do not understand. Is he a running back or a receiver? Maybe that is the problem. Either he can preform basic RB tasks or he can not. If he is only good as a receiver than they should only use him like that. Then if he is a receiver is he better than the options a team might have at receiver.

Edited October 14, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[NoSaint]

The whole "He needs to get the ball in space", I do not understand. Is he a running back or a receiver? Maybe that is the problem. Either he can preform basic RB tasks or he can not. If he is only good as a receiver than they should only use him like that. Then if he is a receiver is he better than the options a team might have at receiver.

 

what difference does it make what position is next to his name in the game day program? as i took to an extreme earlier, you would play a tolbert and sproles in completely different manners - why is it odd to say that spiller shouldnt have most of his runs inside, but instead have that be his change of pace carry? make the tendency what hes good at (and what our line is better at) and then use the element of surprise to overcome the weaknesses inside

[FireChan]

what difference does it make what position is next to his name in the game day program? as i took to an extreme earlier, you would play a tolbert and sproles in completely different manners - why is it odd to say that spiller shouldnt have most of his runs inside, but instead have that be his change of pace carry? make the tendency what hes good at (and what our line is better at) and then use the element of surprise to overcome the weaknesses inside

 

Yes you would. Some plays would be different. But both players would still hit open holes on HB dives.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

what difference does it make what position is next to his name in the game day program? as i took to an extreme earlier, you would play a tolbert and sproles in completely different manners - why is it odd to say that spiller shouldnt have most of his runs inside, but instead have that be his change of pace carry? make the tendency what hes good at (and what our line is better at) and then use the element of surprise to overcome the weaknesses inside

Because you set up your roster based on the positions of need. If they know he should really be a WR then they could activate Brown. If a team knows he is never going to run up the middle there is not really an element of surprise is there?

Edited October 14, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[NoSaint]

 

Because you set up your roster based on the positions of need. If they know he should really be a WR then they could activate Brown. If a team knows he is never going to run up the middle there is not really an element of surprise is there?

 

no one is saying never do it - just that the split should be skewed differently to maximize his talents. I used the example up thread of 225 touches with 65 between the tackles, 100 on the perimeter, and 60 in the passing game instead of 50% of his carries being behind the guards. from there we can also layer in various misdirections like sammy coming around the end (which i saw once in the first half but i think sammy was walking by the time he got to the backfield)..... what difference is his official game day position at that point? we in fact have guys with special physical talents that dont fit the traditional molds.

 

its ok to get outside the box. regardless of his position, we can be creative and he doesnt have to follow the stereotypical roles to the letter.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint

[The Big Cat]

no one is saying never do it - just that the split should be skewed differently to maximize his talents. I used the example up thread of 225 touches with 65 between the tackles, 100 on the perimeter, and 60 in the passing game instead of 50% of his carries being behind the guards. from there we can also layer in various misdirections like sammy coming around the end (which i saw once in the first half but i think sammy was walking by the time he got to the backfield)..... what difference is his official game day position at that point? we in fact have guys with special physical talents that dont fit the traditional molds.

 

its ok to get outside the box. regardless of his position, we can be creative and he doesnt have to follow the stereotypical roles to the letter.

 

Yeah, you know, or CJ could learn to hit the holes the offense is creating.

 

I'm not saying your wrong, just like building a giant tower to the moon could have also been a means to reach it.

[Wayne Cubed]

 

 

166 total rushing yards in the last 5 games is "doing just fine"? Because that's what he's gained since the Chicago game, with a total average of 3.6 ypc.

 

Had Jackson, Spiller and Boobie each not have kicked off long run in the first 2 games, (3 carries totalling 132 yards), this would be a bottom 5 rushing attack.

 

All is not well, sorry.

 

Why are you removing games as if they didn't happen? Or combining stats. I gave you both Spiller and FJs yards per carry for each game, there's no need to pick 5 games and say well he's doing this in the last 5 games. He's splitting carries with CJ who BTW has had more carries. He had a good YPC against Houston and Detroit, who had the #1 rush defense at that point. Miami FJ didn't have a great game, but if your argument is that Hacketts run plays aren't immaginitive, CJ actually had a good day. And they still rushed for over 100 yards as a team.

 

Not sure why you bring up the second stat of CJ, Anthony and FJ. If you take aways Fred's longest run of the year, 38 yards, he's still averaging a pretty good 3.7 YPC. Also of that 132 yards Boobie and CJ had the bulk of the yards. So again I don't see the relevance of that stat.

 

EDIT: Btw 3.6 isn't as horrible as you make it seem. It's enough for a 1st down on 3 carries. If it was below 3.3, maybe you have an argument.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[Rob's House]

So you think this offense is fine as is and does not need to change?

 

A change at RB would be a good start.

 

what difference does it make what position is next to his name in the game day program? as i took to an extreme earlier, you would play a tolbert and sproles in completely different manners - why is it odd to say that spiller shouldnt have most of his runs inside, but instead have that be his change of pace carry? make the tendency what hes good at (and what our line is better at) and then use the element of surprise to overcome the weaknesses inside

 

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but with CJ it's pretty bad. It's like a QB who can't hit a 10 yard out route. He may have a great deep ball, but there are some plays that are so fundamental a player needs to be able to make them consistently regardless of whether it's ideal to his skill set, otherwise he's a liability to the team.

[Wayne Cubed]

 

 

no one is saying never do it - just that the split should be skewed differently to maximize his talents. I used the example up thread of 225 touches with 65 between the tackles, 100 on the perimeter, and 60 in the passing game instead of 50% of his carries being behind the guards. from there we can also layer in various misdirections like sammy coming around the end (which i saw once in the first half but i think sammy was walking by the time he got to the backfield)..... what difference is his official game day position at that point? we in fact have guys with special physical talents that dont fit the traditional molds.

 

its ok to get outside the box. regardless of his position, we can be creative and he doesnt have to follow the stereotypical roles to the letter.

 

I'm just asking because I can't remember, but weren't these the same arguments made after Chris Johnsons number plummeted after his 2000 yard season?

[NoSaint]

 

 

I'm just asking because I can't remember, but weren't these the same arguments made after Chris Johnsons number plummeted after his 2000 yard season?

 

i think most stuck to nearly 100% of running backs to hit 400 touches in a season having issues going forward.

 

 

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but with CJ it's pretty bad. It's like a QB who can't hit a 10 yard out route. He may have a great deep ball, but there are some plays that are so fundamental a player needs to be able to make them consistently regardless of whether it's ideal to his skill set, otherwise he's a liability to the team.

 

i guess i dont see it as quite as losman-esque, and think that if we can support him schematically it may help. when we have his weakness, and our o lines weakness match up like that, and then those be the tendency that we go with - of course its going to feed into problems where trusting play calls and blocks is an even bigger issue.

 

i think i may have my impressions tainted (for better and worse) by watching the saints go with a ton of specialty packages, including ones for backs that dont do much running between the tackles.

 

some weeks better than others- so im not claiming it a cure all, but i think theres something to be said for making your players primary skill sets into tendencies that you play towards. we have a ton of speed and our game plans seem to take it for granted.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint