Rocky Landing Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 There is Liberal USA for you. If they don't get away from the NFL catching Liberal BS then they lose money. All these companies need to nut up and weather the storm. Let the Rice/Peterson things play out then let the NFL make a decision. Plus, you know, Benghazi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 Yep the NFL is going to fold just like it did in 1973 when Ernie Holmes [steel curtain] was shooting at a police helicopter. Or Ray Lewis. And Vick. All high profile players who resumed their NFL careers after violent felony convictions. But this is the new enlightened, sensitive age. Its a false dichotomy to present this as being the only two NFL goes out of business or all things remain the same. Are you saying that the NFL which existed in 1973 is exactly the same as the NFL of 2014? Yeah right. One can easily argue that Holms' potshots had little or in fact nothing to do with today's NFL. I agree. However, its a different thing to theorize that the possible or even probable impact of the coincidental occurrence of the Ray Rice, other domestic violence cases and the Adrian Peterson case all publicly breaking within a week of each other will not have a serious effect. My GUESS when we look back we will see these events as continuation points in a saga of the players being recognized as the majority partners in the NFL. Ihe players were mere employees until the team owners virtually destroyed the NFLPA in the mid-80s. Gene Upshaw and a talented tenth of players took the advice of a bunch of smart lawyers and convinced their fellow athletes to threaten to decertify the union. Without the union the NFL owners would have been forced into a true free market where they bid against each other for individual player services. The NFL team owners recognized that not only was a free market too brutal to live within, but actually there was more money for an individual team owner to make in a system based on an expanding social compact than in a competitive market. Did the NFL collapse? No! However its not your grandma's NFL anymore. I (and others I judge from the TSW chatter) find these FO issues interesting on their own. Even beyond this inside baseball, issues such as the salary cap and discipline of players such as Peterson have a significant impact in the game. O think NE got a freebie win on Sunday because Peterson did not play. As a person, I feel bad for Peterson's family that he will not have a hearing on his case until mid Oct. but the real issue which I am worried about as a Bills fan is whether he will play or not in the 10/19 game against the Bills. Will we get the same freebie the Pats got when they played MN. The NFL still exists but it is simply foolish as a fan not to realize the significant changes which occur made a difference and that the current controversies make a real difference in whether the Bills or our division opponents get Ws or Ls this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 There is Liberal USA for you. If they don't get away from the NFL catching Liberal BS then they lose money. All these companies need to nut up and weather the storm. Let the Rice/Peterson things play out then let the NFL make a decision. Again whether and how they take your guidance to "nut up" makes a football difference for us Bills fans. It simply is not unreasonable for the Vikes to have benched Peterson on Sunday in the wake of child abuse allegations and the obvious media interest and distraction from the game his presence would have provided. Ultimately the NFL is about providing entertainment to us fans of the game and the uncertainty surrounding an even more serious charge of child abuse rather than the spousal abuse of the Ray Rice situation made it more than reasonable for the vikes to sit him. Imagine the firestorm based on simply mere uncertainty which would have come along with him actually playing and the Vikes profiting from his play. However, now hat the judicial process is clearer, the initial decision was for the Vikes to "nut up" as you say and to play Peterson until the courts adjudicated his crime charge. This decision was actually the worse one for the Bills as NE won this weekend against a non-Peterson Vike team. If in fact the Vikes had nutted up and played Peterson until the court found him guilty the Bolls will not get the same advantage the Pats got5 on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) How predictable lol. If a troll doesn't know they are a stubborn troll, are they are a troll? Is there a fire black in that box of crayons, because it seems that would be the kettle speaking, in other words based on your previous IDs, I think you should be well able to answer your question there. I am not standing up for Rob, or attacking you, just pointing out the obvious. Edited September 17, 2014 by bowery4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 So which sponsers, other than a local motel chain, has "peeled away from the NFL"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 So which sponsers, other than a local motel chain, has "peeled away from the NFL"? right, no one has left...they're just "concerned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 right, no one has left...they're just "concerned" Nike has taken a hard stance on the handling of child abuse cases*. *Cases must be located in the US to be valid. See Rules & Details for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Meh. These kind of short-lived-psuedo-controversies only make the league more interesting to the general public and therefore more attractive to sponsors. NFL just has to weather the cackling hens of discontent for a few weeks and it will be business as usual regardless. I mean.....it's a bloodsport sponsored most prominently by booze. Notwithstanding what I say above, there is this: http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/16/media/nfl-ratings-scandals/. It may decline someday, but not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 right, no one has left...they're just "concerned" T was amused by John Stewart pointing out re: Anheser-Busch expressing concern that when the seller of a product which leads to drunkenness which often accompanies spouse or child abuse questions whether you meet their moral standards then you got real problems. As I said in my original post the Radisson move is merely a beginning which while it has not prompted NFL sponsors to abandon the NFL, this first shot has been followed by sine major leaguers like Nike ending the relationship with Peterson while the big boys are expressing concern. The NFL seems to be answering with individual teams also benching individuals like Hardy and the embarrassing about face by MH who tried to reinstate Peterson after the drubbing by the Pats. The NFL has added lip service and also named 4 woman to be politically correctness police (ironically this group of 4 well qualified white women is being questioned by some for having no A/As among their ranks in a league where roughly 70% of the athletes are A/A. The process has begun but appears to be moving slowly. As such the process continues and my GUESS is will not stop until the team owners are forced to throw Goodell under the bus (which will only happen quickly if more bad things happen- the RB from AZ having to be benched today is a minor thing but not good- it also appears that a back-up for him is on the PS but that player also has some history with the law and spouse abuse. My GUESS is that the press blatberings of Anheuser- and others are signs that the true powers (advertising money) are not yet satisfied. I doubt Goodell get thrown under the bus immediately but to me he is simply a Dead Man Walking who will resign to spend more tine wit his family in the offseason. Thee peeling moves slowly but it not only has begun with this local peep but continues on with individual players as the victims of choice for now. Does anyone want to predict this is all over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 As TMQ likes to point out, just because the NFL is extremely popular now, doesn't mean that it always will be--look no further than boxing for a potential example of a formerly popular sport being brought low. The NFL needs to be careful to protect the game and its popularity over the long-term. Problems like those of the past week may not turn away too many of the addicts (like all of us here, most of whom are old enough to already be "hooked"), but may turn off/away potential new/younger fans, either directly, or via their parents deciding to not expose the kids to the League or the sport (ie., declining youth participation). Personally, I think in the long-run the bigger news this week might turn out to be the NFL's admission that a third of their players end up with cognitive difficulties far earlier in life than non-NFL peers. Not sure if they intentionally dropped that nugget out there in the midst of the other news or not (I suspect not, as it came out in a litigation context). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 the NFL is king......and it will stay that way for at least another 20 years. Ratings are soaring. the "nonprofit" NFL (cough/laughable) hopes to achieve $25 billion in annual revenue by 2027, up from about $10 billion now. the only question is the year in which that happens. bad behavior and head injuries are not stopping this train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Nike has taken a hard stance on the handling of child abuse cases*. *Cases must be located in the US to be valid. See Rules & Details for more information. /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think folks seem to have a little bit too much faith in things being like they always were and also have a bit too much faith in something being maintained because it is demonstrably good, but not recognizing that though it may really be good for lots of people that just cannot stop individuals from trying to change things to make it ridiculously better for just themselves. Actually, the along with death and taxes, the one thing which is certain in life is change. Even in my short 55 years I have enjoyed too many eight track tapes/ stewed over whether to buy Beta or VHS, have a bunch of prized vinyl discs in my closet, seen baseball be the national pastime when I grew up, am as addicted to football as most folks on TSW, but really had my most fun personal experience be a dual between co-ed field hockey in college (a great team one intramural season as the team members were all young, the women had far more skills and experience but the boys had brawn and natural competitiveness which gave the mix gender team unique equality) and the semi-formal softball league on the mall in the summer in DC. The one thing I can pretty much guarantee is that things will be quite different and surprising in 5-10 years for just about anything important. In a world which is getting increasingly smaller due to computer connectivity and travel, the most popular sport in the world by far is football (though here in America we call it soccer). Folks have been threatening for decades that this is the year for soccer in the US only to find themselves disappointed when the smoke clears and seasons change. Yet, even though I find it to be one of the most boring things in the world to watch (Smith kicks to Jones, Jones kicks to Smith, Smith kicks to Jones, embellished injury, bad ref call, Smith kicks to Jones, Jones kicks to Smith and then twice to three times in several hours GGGOOOOAAAALLL) this summer saw entire month plus which made March Madness look like a brief eruption. If the US team does well one year who knows. I doubt it will be soccer (but then I like baseball which my wife says is like watching paint dry so who am I to say. At any rate, if one simply looks at the NFL, there is a ton of money sloshing around out there and some incredible weakness and distraction plaguing the boys in charge. There is also a pretty rich history of guys with a lot of bucks trying to get in the door like Trump being seriously considered by some while roundly rejected by others (I still find it hard to believe that some Buffaloanians took his bid seriously). My probably wrong GUESS is that one of the things which might come out of this current mess is the NFLPA finally seeing an opportunity to cut out the middleman who transfers money from the fans to the players and somehow scrapes 39.5% of the gross receipts off the top for themselves. I watch football to see Peyton Manning, Mario Williams and once every three years to see Tony Romo get sacked as many times as possible. I really have no interest in seeing Ralph or Terry Pegula in shoulder pads or uniform. I have no interest in seeing Jerry Jones at all, I only want to see John Elway in old tapes from the 80s. Those of you so confident in the NFL always being around, just wait. The history has been in the last 20 years that the team owners pretty much ruled the roost, but actually they overplayed their hand in the mid-80s and so weakened the AFL-CIO types liked Garvey who ran the NFLPA that an opportunity was created fir a talented tenth of athletes like Gene Upshaw who got the players to threaten to decertify the NFLPA as a bargaining agent. This threat would have forced the team owners into a true free market where they competed with money to attract skilled players. The NFL had up until that point had operated based on a social compact between team owners where American government allowed them a partial exemption from antitrust rules and to work with the NFLPA to not only broadly restrict American adults from playing in the NFL until they were 21, but even mandated where an individual was going to live with the NFL draft. These un-American anti free market constraints were allowed by our government because the gladiatorial battles each Sunday (+) were so entertaining. The CBA really changed the way money is distributed from the NFL with the players in fact becoming partners with the team owners in the social compact which divided up the gross receipts raked in by the NFL. The CBA was an incredibly complex instrument which installed a salary cap which actually guaranteed the workers a % of the "designated gross" receipts which could range as high as the low 70%s of designated receipts. Other receipts (items such as luxury box and things) were reserved for the owners (which led to actions like the Bills getting rid of almost a 10,000 seats which though filled when the team was winning could be replaced with a smaller # of premium seats where by agreement Ralph need not split the take with the players. The NFLPA was quite willing to be taken advantage of by some aspects of the deal because the labor peace which ensued allowed the TV nets to invest unseen amounts of providing even more $ than ever to both the owners and the players. The players accepted this because they knew when the deal came up for a soon scheduled renegotiation, Gene Upshaw announced before even negotiating that the final deal was going to eliminate the designated gross to have the salary cap be set from all NFL receipts. Further Upshaw declared that the final deal MUST award the players with a % which started with a 6. The final deal ended up giving the players the worker mandated 60.5% and the workers became not just partners in the social compact but arguably the majority partners At any rate, my GUESS is that the players may see the weakness of the NFL team owners embodied in Dead Man Waking Roger Goodell as a chance to cut the middleman out of the deal. The players are really what folks want and will pay to see. The team owners were essential back in the day when there was less capital available and a need to developed centralized rules and presentation of the game. The team owners have now been reduced to minority partnership, but the take is now so much higher the owners agreed (with the prodding of Paul Tagliabue to vote down the old hands like Ralph Wilson and take the deal. There us now a potential next step with the team owners embodied in Goodell are in such disarray if a clever way can be found to cut the team owners out of the deal then the players would have an extra 39.5% of the NFL billions to play with. I do not know enough of the details nor am I smart enough to say what the new pro football enterprise would look like, but I can see that tis is not you grandmother's NFL anymore and the current events make some things possible to consider that have never been possible before. Just wait. This will be interesting. 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dave mcbride Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) the NFL is king......and it will stay that way for at least another 20 years. Ratings are soaring. the "nonprofit" NFL (cough/laughable) hopes to achieve $25 billion in annual revenue by 2027, up from about $10 billion now. the only question is the year in which that happens. bad behavior and head injuries are not stopping this train. 20 years is a long time. You may prove to be right, but I would be more cautious in predicting the long term. In due time, I suspect bad behavior and head injuries (especially the latter) will slow down the train at least a little bit. It'll always be popular; the question is to what extent. Boxing used to be the most popular sport in America. So did baseball, and so did horse racing. Youth participation rates in Pop Warner are probably good indicators of where it's headed. Edited September 18, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 and now pepsi is putting the screws to goodell. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-sacked--pepsi-demands--immediate--change-120822667.html. and if you missed it the article contains this tidbit: 5% of pink merchandise profits go to breast cancer charities. as the writer says, that scam plus the current controversies very likely spell the end for goodell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I love the tools who have to turn everything into a stupid political debate. This is all show. All these scumbags will be dealt with and these same groups goign away now will be paying millions again to advertise with the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Ultimately, they will stay (for the most part) but will leverage for lower advertising rates. Goodell will stay. The NFL may lose popularity, but it won't be because of these off field issues. It will be because fewer kids are playing football (for a variety of reasons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 and now pepsi is putting the screws to goodell. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-sacked--pepsi-demands--immediate--change-120822667.html. and if you missed it the article contains this tidbit: 5% of pink merchandise profits go to breast cancer charities. as the writer says, that scam plus the current controversies very likely spell the end for goodell. Everyone already knew that. This is a bombshell if you dont pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Ultimately, they will stay (for the most part) but will leverage for lower advertising rates. Goodell will stay. The NFL may lose popularity, but it won't be because of these off field issues. It will be because fewer kids are playing football (for a variety of reasons). The NFL gets more popular every year. That said, I won't be surprised if we get away from Pop Warner and jsut have 7 on 7 leagues and flag football before high school. Unless you're a fat kid, 7 on 7 is just the same as pop warner for young kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The NFL gets more popular every year. That said, I won't be surprised if we get away from Pop Warner and jsut have 7 on 7 leagues and flag football before high school. Unless you're a fat kid, 7 on 7 is just the same as pop warner for young kids. My 14 year old son has been playing in an NFL sponsored flag league since he was 9. It is hugely popular here and a freaking awesome sport. It helps that the fields are here! http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNc4VN5CMAEisPl.jpg:large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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